# Hypothetical work situation -- whistle blowing. What would you do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862 "2019-09-26T18:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/41 "2019-09-27T17:23:49Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Once again, the suspected misconduct can be reported anonymously. > > ETA: And can be reported as _suspected_. And again, _I don’t care_. It really doesn’t sound like Carl is some master of trickery, which means it’s nigh-impossible that the boss is unaware he’s unproductive, unless the manager is blazingly incompetent. And mostly-absent or not, if a manager seriously wanted to get rid of the guy and was looking for a way to do so, he’d figure out the timesheet fraud on his own, via his own methods. That this hasn’t happened means that either Carl is so entrenched that he _can’t_ be dealt with, or that the manager is incompetent himself. If the first case is true then my report won’t help. If the second case is true then my report won’t help. And in both cases there’s a chance that somebody will hear about my report and get mad about it. Even if they don’t know that I’m the one that sent the report, they’ll know that it’s one of the people in the group, and retribution could be levied against the entire group. At which point it’ll probably come out who reported it (because everybody else will deny it and I won’t lie), and the shit will hit the fan. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/42 "2019-09-27T18:38:11Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > All hypothetical of course. > > Carl works in a small (15 man) department of a large corporation. Carl is paid hourly and punches a time clock at the beginning and end of every shift, as do all his co-workers. > > Carl is not a good worker. In a typical 8-hour day he does maybe 2 hours of actual work. Some days even less. He also arrives late for work – usually 10-15 minutes or so - probably 2 or 3 times a week. > > Carl also leaves early on occasion, with no notification of management and often with very little warning to his co-workers. > > Now here is what’s going on. When Carl leaves early, he “forgets” to punch out. Come payroll time, the secretary who enters the work time notices that Carl has a missed a punch or two and asks Carl if he left at his normal time those days. Carl, of course, says yes (even though he had left work an hour or two early). So he gets a full day’s pay even though he left early. > > All his immediate co-workers know this is happening, and has been going on for some time. Management is rarely present and certainly has no clue. > > All co-workers complain about this to each other but are afraid to speak up; they fear retaliation from Carl. Virtually every other worker is a hard worker and puts in a full day’s labor. > > The corporation has an ethics hotline designed to receive concerns of blatant or suspected ethical breaches via phone, email, fax, or USPS. The reporter may remain anonymous. > > You are Carl’s co-worker. What, if any, action would you take? Do I have to pick up Carl’s slack, or is he otherwise getting his work done to an acceptable degree of quality in the time he is putting in? I’m not ratting him out if his only offense is cheating the time card. Most people are not working 100% of the time they are clocked in. Or do you all clock out every time you use the loo, get a drink of water, or shoot the breeze with your co-workers? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/43 "2019-09-27T18:39:57Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Some possible ways: Corporate ethics department says ‘this is a local manager issue not a corporate ethics issue’, forwards the message to the manager (or second line manager). Manager then deduces from writing style, fact that co worker has complained in the past, the timing of any specific incidents, or a combination who the complainer was. Corporate ethics takes the unsigned letter seriously and someone acts on the complaints. Since they’re acting ethically, Carl is disciplined for the specific incidents laid out in the letter - which then means that Carl and the manager have the precise complaints in the letter, and can deduce who was around to witness those precise incidents. (If the letter doesn’t have specific information, then corporate ethics would be acting unethically to do anything more than say to the manager ‘some anonymous source said Carl sometimes does something, look into it’.) > > The manager is likely pissed at someone going over his head to cause trouble and will want that to stop and it’s established that Carl is able to visit retribution on people, so there’s good reason to expect blowback from the complaint. Nobody would be able to deduce who wrote the letter. Everyone is around every day, and everybody complains about Carl. On the other hand, the manager being pissed and cracking down on everyone is definitely something to consider. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/44 "2019-09-27T19:39:18Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Nobody would be able to deduce who wrote the letter. Everyone is around every day, and everybody complains about Carl. Your hypothetical workplace where no one but Carl The Retaliator ever runs errands or takes a day off is getting more divorced from reality with each post. Not really sure what your objective with this thread is, but the habit of adding unrealistic special conditions to nullify particular responses doesn’t make for interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/45 "2019-09-27T19:57:59Z")
This sounds like a former co-worker of mine. She would ‘forget’ to punch in when late, which was often. She would ‘forget’ to punch out when leaving early, also often. She did the least amount of actual work of any employee. Which wasn’t that bad, because she made many mistakes and her work would often have to be redone. She had an excuse for everything. Nothing was ever her fault. If pressed, she would argue until you wanted to kill yourself, just so the noise would stop. She would volunteer to pick up lunch for co-workers, call in the order, leave and be gone for 2 hours, then return with the food and take her lunch break. (we worked 12 hour shifts) The supervisor knew. His supervisor knew. Everybody knew. She was still there when I left. We all said that she had naked pictures of _somebody_ higher up in the company. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/46 "2019-09-27T21:20:54Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > This sounds like a former co-worker of mine. > > She would ‘forget’ to punch in when late, which was often. She would ‘forget’ to punch out when leaving early, also often. She did the least amount of actual work of any employee. Which wasn’t that bad, because she made many mistakes and her work would often have to be redone. She had an excuse for everything. Nothing was ever her fault. If pressed, she would argue until you wanted to kill yourself, just so the noise would stop. > > She would volunteer to pick up lunch for co-workers, call in the order, leave and be gone for 2 hours, then return with the food and take her lunch break. (we worked 12 hour shifts) > > The supervisor knew. His supervisor knew. Everybody knew. She was still there when I left. > > We all said that she had naked pictures of _somebody_ higher up in the company. Hoo boy, that sounds just like Carl (except fir the supervisors being aware). I really don’t think there are nekkid photos in the mix. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/47 "2019-09-27T21:22:01Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Your hypothetical workplace where no one but Carl The Retaliator ever runs errands or takes a day off is getting more divorced from reality with each post. Not really sure what your objective with this thread is, but the habit of adding unrealistic special conditions to nullify particular responses doesn’t make for interesting discussion. Ok, take care. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/48 "2019-09-27T21:51:25Z")
This situation seems like Junior Modding as applied to the workplace. If no worker is getting screwed because of Carl, it’s not your problem. If this is true, it means you are overstaffed and Carl might be helpful in making it look like you don’t have too many people. Is the work falling behind? If it is, there might be a case. I agree with others that if the boss gets pressed to deal with this he’s going to be mad at the reporters, not Carl. Chances are that the people who receive the mail will ask him if there is an issue, he’ll say no, and they’ll mark it down to whining workers. You are not going to make an incompetent boss competent with a complaint letter. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/49 "2019-09-27T22:38:19Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > This situation seems like Junior Modding as applied to the workplace. If no worker is getting screwed because of Carl, it’s not your problem. If this is true, it means you are overstaffed and Carl might be helpful in making it look like you don’t have too many people. Is the work falling behind? If it is, there might be a case. > I agree with others that if the boss gets pressed to deal with this he’s going to be mad at the reporters, not Carl. Chances are that the people who receive the mail will ask him if there is an issue, he’ll say no, and they’ll mark it down to whining workers. You are not going to make an incompetent boss competent with a complaint letter. Workers \*are \*getting screwed, in the sense that the workload is backed up. Even with Carl pulling his weight they would still be understaffed (not over). The boss is not incompetent, just spread way, way too thin. The manager being upset because he was not apprised of the situation - that his head was “went over” - I had not considered and is valuable input. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/50 "2019-09-28T14:37:51Z")
It seems difficult to combine “anonymous reporting” with “documented evidence”. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/51 "2019-09-28T15:40:17Z")
I don’t understand why you can’t just talk to your manager and even their boss. You say they are both good at their jobs. Walk into their office, sit down and share your concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/52 "2019-09-28T18:45:50Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Workers \*are \*getting screwed, in the sense that the workload is backed up. Even with Carl pulling his weight they would still be understaffed (not over). > > The boss is not incompetent, just spread way, way too thin. > > The manager being upset because he was not apprised of the situation - that his head was “went over” - I had not considered and is valuable input. Cool. Then here’s a suggestion. Measuring things allows you to improve them. Suggest to your boss that you measure by putting your name on the things you complete. Say that this will help you find issues. I assume he knows you are falling behind. It also might help him justify new hiring - most bosses would like more people. Tell him he gets a report every week. Then Carl’s slacking will become obvious. Putting the stats up on the wall, like a Baldridge Award winning factory I used to visit did, could help also. Tell your boss that you won’t send the report to anyone but him. If he still does nothing, then forget it. Hell, all of you might reduce your workload to Carl’s. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/53 "2019-09-28T21:39:19Z")
Hell yes, rat the fucker out! Why _wouldn’t_ you? I think this is the answer you are fishing for. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862/54 "2019-09-29T11:26:47Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > It seems difficult to combine “anonymous reporting” with “documented evidence”. Agreed. There is no documented evidence (aside from the fact that there are days where he has not clocked out). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-work-situation-whistle-blowing-what-would-you-do/840862.md?page=2)