# Hypothetical: would gun makers secretly hiring mass shooters work as a business model? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678 "2022-07-09T20:18:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/1 "2022-07-09T20:18:13Z")
Gun makers, I hear, see very profitable jumps in gun sales every time there’s a big mass shooting. Suppose for the sake of argument that a gun maker decided to cause these shootings directly, by secretly hiring people to commit them. They’d invest in the shooter, and enjoy profits as a result. Would this work as a business model, assuming they were able to keep it secret? Would the jump in sales more than pay for what it costs to get somebody to do this? Would the tragedy of the commons prevent it (namely, that only one gun maker fronts the investment but all of them reap the benefits, therefore nobody would want to be the one that fronts the investment)? Is there not enough profit in the buying surges? One time I tried to figure out whether killing their customers was a viable business model for cigarette companies. Somehow I came up with the figure that they made $4000 profit for each customer killed (and I remember nothing of how I came up with this). Now I’m wondering a similar thing about the gun industry. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/2 "2022-07-09T20:22:41Z")
I’m not sure, but I’d be interested in reading the sci-fi dystopian novel based on the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/3 "2022-07-09T20:28:07Z")
You couldn’t just hire people. Too much chance of discovery. You’d need to “find” the unwilling persons, similar to The Parallax View\*, who can be manipulated into thinking the shooting was their idea. \* in the movie they were finding pasties, but the method should work to find disaffected young males who would actually do the killing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/4 "2022-07-09T20:29:30Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > They’d invest in the shooter, and enjoy profits as a result. - What’s in it for the shooter? It’s not like he’ll live to spend the money and he doesn’t need the gun industry to find victims. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/5 "2022-07-09T20:34:55Z")
A better (and legal) strategy would be to fund Democrats running for office. Gun sales spike every time a gun control advocate is elected. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/6 "2022-07-09T20:38:18Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > in the movie they were finding pasties, Well, at least they won’t be hungry. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/7 "2022-07-09T20:40:52Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Well, at least they won’t be hungry. I deserved that! In my old age I seem to have forgot how to typoe ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/8 "2022-07-09T21:03:09Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Gun makers, I hear, see very profitable jumps in gun sales every time there’s a big mass shooting. This isn’t actually true. There was a dramatically huge spike in gun sales after Sandy Hook, and a few less dramatic spikes after several other mass shootings. However, there have been a lot of other mass shootings that didn’t result in a spike in gun sales, such as the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting and the 2009 Fort Hood shooting. I also don’t think it’s a direct cause and effect. It’s not the mass shootings that trigger the gun sales, it’s the push for more strict gun laws that trigger them. Any push for stricter gun laws usually results in increased gun sales. Obama and Biden have done more to increase gun sales than all of the Republicans combined. Obama’s election caused more of a spike in gun sales than the 2016 Orlando shootings. Obama’s anti-gun stance also caused gun sales in general to increase from about half a million guns per month to over a million guns per month during his entire presidency. A more reliable, and completely legal method to increase gun sales is to do what @Elmer_J.Fudd suggested, help a strong anti-gun Democrat get elected. Gun and ammo sales will soar. An alternate solution would be to fund some sort of pandemic. Maybe bribe some lab workers to “accidentally” release something from one of the research labs that has the nasty stuff in it. Gun sales (and violence in general) have increased dramatically during Covid. Human beings in general seem to be really bad at keeping secrets, so I personally would expect all of these plans to backfire spectacularly. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/9 "2022-07-09T22:05:43Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What’s in it for the shooter? It’s not like he’ll live to spend the money and he doesn’t need the gun industry to find victims. Should have elaborated on this. I was thinking people who were despondent over not being able to support their families, who imagined “they would be better off without me”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/10 "2022-07-09T22:11:22Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > > [@running\_coach](#): > > > > What’s in it for the shooter? It’s not like he’ll live to spend the money and he doesn’t need the gun industry to find victims. > > Should have elaborated on this. I was thinking people who were despondent over not being able to support their families, who imagined “they would be better off without me”. - \< Morbid \> Wouldn’t shooting their family work better than shooting strangers? \ Seriously, that’s even worse to leave your family knowing that you killed strangers thinking it would improve things. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/11 "2022-07-09T22:21:33Z")
Ah… for the record, I’m not in favor of any of this… ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/12 "2022-07-10T00:57:01Z")
A better use of their money is to funnel it to the most radical politicians who will call for complete banning of firearms, drive up sales, then funnel more to fund other politicians who will vote against any legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/13 "2022-07-10T01:17:01Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Obama’s anti-gun stance also caused gun sales in general to increase from about half a million guns per month to over a million guns per month during his entire presidency. Gun rights actually expanded under Obama. It doesn’t require an anti-gun Democrat; the entire party has been demonized, so the election of any democrat is likely to improve gun sales. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/14 "2022-07-10T01:44:25Z")
Why would you pay somebody when there are so many who’ll do it for the free publicity? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/15 "2022-07-10T01:44:44Z")
Isn’t that a misnomer though? Obama wanted more gun control measures but by the time he tried to implement them he already had both Congress and the Senate against him. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/16 "2022-07-10T01:48:37Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Obama wanted more gun control measures but by the time he tried to implement them he already had both Congress and the Senate against him. So it wasn’t a priority, or he would have pushed it through in his first two years. Meanwhile, he made it so people could bring their weapons into national parks and onto trains. > [@](#): > > In his first month in office, Obama overturned a 20-year ban on loaded guns in national parks and wildlife refuges. Licensed gun owners from any state can now carry concealed, loaded weapons on federal land. > > Ten months later, as part of an omnibus spending bill, Obama reversed a decade-long ban on transporting firearms by train. Amtrak travelers can now carry unloaded, locked weapons in their checked baggage. > **[FLASHBACK: Obama: I Have Expanded Rights of Gun Owners](https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/12/flashback-obama-i-have-expanded-rights-of-gun-owners)** > > Get breaking national and world news, broadcast video coverage, and exclusive interviews. Find the top news online at ABC news. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-would-gun-makers-secretly-hiring-mass-shooters-work-as-a-business-model/967678/17 "2022-07-11T18:30:09Z")
Or violating local laws on dancers and nudity