# I admire the tenacity of republicans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614 "2014-07-20T18:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/181 "2014-07-21T18:44:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That was **silenus** , you lower-class twit. > > What’s wrong, the free education didn’t take? Have trouble reading and you need to be spoonfed viewpoints? Same crap, different name. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/182 "2014-07-21T18:45:30Z")
Splendid idea! We shall simply redistribute wealth so that all citizens can afford privately funded health care! Thanks, Comrade! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/183 "2014-07-21T18:46:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > For those whose parents cannot afford paying for schooling, government should set up public schools. For those who cannot afford food, government should set up soup kitchens. etc. But it is a handout. It should be recognized that it is a handout, that it is evil, and it corrupts, and should be given in dire situations only. Separate but equal education for the poor huh? Actually nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate. That seems like a good idea to you? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/184 "2014-07-21T18:48:14Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Separate but equal education for the poor huh? Actually nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate. “Separate, but equal food for the poor huh? Actually, nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate.” “Separate, but equal housing for the poor huh? Actually, nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate.” “Separate, but equal transportation for the poor huh? Actually, nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate.” “Separate, but equal clothing for the poor huh? Actually, nevermind, you never said anything about equal. So just separate.” etc. etc. etc. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/185 "2014-07-21T18:49:39Z")
What point do you think you’re making with that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/186 "2014-07-21T18:50:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > We did a thread on the merits of this suit, btw: [So - what happens if these lawsuits succeed? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=705673) **Bricker** : What do you think of [RP’s analysis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16780713&postcount=41) in the original thread on this subject? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/187 "2014-07-21T18:51:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What point do you think you’re making with that? What point do you think you were making with your post? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/188 "2014-07-21T18:54:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > First, the system today is not “government health insurance”. It is private health insurance. With government handouts. Well, I figure the U.S. might go single-payer eventually - Vermont is dabbling with the idea - but baby steps. As it is, “government health insurance” existed in the U.S. well before the ACA, significant but limited in scope. > [@](#): > > And as for your question - the end doesn’t justify the means. So in this circumstance, the “means” are so onerous to you that the ends don’t matter? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/189 "2014-07-21T19:00:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What point do you think you were making with your post? One that’s too difficult for you to comprehend apparently. I guess I need to bring it down a few levels. Think about the history of education in this country. Specifically with regard to civil rights and segregation. Think about the idea of taking all of the kids from a certain group and funneling them all to the same schools, separate from everyone else, but now you are saying we should do this to the poor people rather than to the black people as it was back then. So its not a racist idea necessarily, but definitely classist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/190 "2014-07-21T19:08:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **Bricker** : > > What do you think of [RP’s analysis](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16780713&postcount=41) in the original thread on this subject? > [@So - what happens if these lawsuits succeed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-happens-if-these-lawsuits-succeed/671944/41): > > In short, the question is whether one reasonable reading of the language of the statute as a whole is that it provides subsidies for federal-run exchanges. The only serious argument to the contrary is the undefined verb “established by the State,” but when you put that up against all the other language that talks about the feds essentially replacing the state in every way if the states fails its obligations, and there being no very good reason for not offering the subsidies in 1311 exchanges established by the feds, I think the Administration is not too concerned. I think his analysis is flawed. The only serious argument is not that the verb “established” is undefined. It’s that the language relating to tax credits specifically allows them only when an exchange is established by the State, and the statute further specifically defines “State” as “any one of the fifty United States and the District of Columbia.” (Another point that no one in the thread bothered to mention, despite plaintive cries that “State” could mean the federal government.) He ultimately says that the courts should look to the overall purpose and forget the words. But the words show the purpose. Congress intended to incentivize the state exchanges. They expected that states would all have exchanges. That didn’t happen. The courts should not re-write the statute to fix a mistake of that nature. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/191 "2014-07-21T19:10:46Z")
**Terr** , perhaps I’m an idiot who can’t get along with anyone. But stop helping. I realize you are a putative ally on this point, and conventional wisdom would suggest I treat you as an ally and support your points. But I wish you weren’t helping. I don’t have the energy to pick apart your posts as well as those from the other side. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/192 "2014-07-21T19:11:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think his analysis is flawed. The only serious argument is not that the verb “established” is undefined. It’s that the language relating to tax credits specifically allows them only when an exchange is established by the State, and the statute further specifically defines “State” as “any one of the fifty United States and the District of Columbia.” (Another point that no one in the thread bothered to mention, despite plaintive cries that “State” could mean the federal government.) > > He ultimately says that the courts should look to the overall purpose and forget the words. > > But the words show the purpose. Congress intended to incentivize the state exchanges. They expected that states would all have exchanges. That didn’t happen. The courts should not re-write the statute to fix a mistake of that nature. Is that the conclusion you expect the majority on the SCOTUS to come to? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/193 "2014-07-21T19:15:21Z")
> [@So - what happens if these lawsuits succeed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-what-happens-if-these-lawsuits-succeed/671944/167): > > [T]he language relating to tax credits specifically allows them only when an exchange is established by the State. Some of the language does suggest that. Other parts of the statute suggest otherwise. I suggest you read the rest of the thread you quoted if you haven’t already, because I don’t think you’ve grappled with the strongest arguments in this post. > [@Bricker](#): > > He ultimately says that the courts should look to the overall purpose and forget the words. No, that’s incorrect. He analyzed it, as I have, as an issue of conflicting meanings of different parts of the statute. > [@Bricker](#): > > But the words show the purpose. Congress intended to incentivize the state exchanges. They expected that states would all have exchanges. That didn’t happen. The courts should not re-write the statute to fix a mistake of that nature. That’s ironic. You contend that the words show the purpose, but you’ll ascribe an intent to Congress about incentives that is not in the words, when the actual purpose–helping poorer people buy healthcare–is all over the statute. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/194 "2014-07-21T19:22:36Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > One that’s too difficult for you to comprehend apparently. I guess I need to bring it down a few levels. > > Think about the history of education in this country. Specifically with regard to civil rights and segregation. Think about the idea of taking all of the kids from a certain group and funneling them all to the same schools, separate from everyone else, but now you are saying we should do this to the poor people rather than to the black people as it was back then. So its not a racist idea necessarily, but definitely classist. So - why not apply “equal” to all those other things I mentioned? Food, housing, transportation, clothing, etc etc etc? Don’t you those things are important? Should all those be “equalized” too? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/195 "2014-07-21T19:23:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > **Terr** , perhaps I’m an idiot who can’t get along with anyone. > > But stop helping. Who says I am here to help you? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/196 "2014-07-21T19:24:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > **Terr** , perhaps I’m an idiot who can’t get along with anyone. > > But stop helping. > > I realize you are a putative ally on this point, and conventional wisdom would suggest I treat you as an ally and support your points. > > But I wish you weren’t helping. I don’t have the energy to pick apart your posts as well as those from the other side. I object to this type of post. What tells you that Terr is trying to help you? I think he’s trying to help Terr. WADR it seems a bit presumptuous to declare youself the standard-bearer of your “side” and everyone else on that “side” as rank-and-file under your command. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/197 "2014-07-21T19:25:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I object to this type of post. > > What tells you that Terr is trying to help you? I think he’s trying to help Terr. > > WADR it seems a bit presumtuous to declare youself the standard-bearer of your “side” and everyone else on that “side” as rank-and-file under your command. Correct. Withdrawn. I apologize, **Terr**. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/198 "2014-07-21T19:30:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - why not apply “equal” to all those other things I mentioned? Food, housing, transportation, clothing, etc etc etc? Don’t you those things are important? Should all those be “equalized” too? My god you’re dense. I was using the ‘separate but equal’ phrase to call back to the last time people had this idea for education. I wasn’t arguing that everything should or could be equal. I was mocking those that used that phrase in the past, and illustrating how your idea was along that same path. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/199 "2014-07-21T19:34:07Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > My god you’re dense. I was using the ‘separate but equal’ phrase to call back to the last time people had this idea for education. I wasn’t arguing that everything should or could be equal. Why? Why do you think education is more important that nutrition, housing or transportation? Why do you think education should be “equalized” but not the other necessities? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/200 "2014-07-21T19:39:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why? Why do you think education is more important that nutrition, housing or transportation? Why do you think education should be “equalized” but not the other necessities? I don’t think that. Jesus man, you should take a break. Get some air, do some thinking. There’s a lot going over your head right now. Again, I used the phrase ‘separate but equal’ specifically because your plan for education is very reminiscent of the plan of segregationists in the civil rights era. They claimed separate education was fine as long as it was equal. That was their phrase. I used it purposely to show you the flaw in your plan because it was essentially the same except you are advocating it for poor people rather than black people. I wasn’t using the phrase literally as my own argument, I was using it to ridicule your argument. Do you get it now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=11)