# I admire the tenacity of republicans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614 "2014-07-20T18:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/301 "2014-07-22T16:09:15Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > So Republicans are like racists and Nazis. I can’t even Yes they are. Tell them to stop practicing social eugenics by pricing health care out of the reach of the poor. Tell them that not all immigrant children are disease-riddled germbags. Tell them homosexuals don’t need to be killed and to stop exporting their brand of hatred to receptive countries like Uganda. Tell them that women are not there for their amusement and rape isn’t something you tell people to just suck up. Tell them that people who disagree with them politically aren’t anti-American traitors (oh the irony of that!). If they don’t want to be called racists, tell them to stop all talk about welfare mothers, “urban” problems, assuming kids like Trayvon Martin was a criminal by what he wore, the word “thug”. You know as well as I do that sitting elected officials from the GOP have called Obama all sorts of names including comparing him to Hitler for wanting to give health care to people. Ply your shitty, transparent attempt at outrage somewhere else. The GOP is all of those things they accuse Democrats of being. There is no equivalency here. Democrats can call the GOP those names because they’re true. The opposite is not. Get over yourself and your support over those hateful racist Nazis ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/302 "2014-07-22T16:10:55Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > A hastily-constructed example: Let’s say I visit a state other than my own, and am robbed. I visit a police station, or perhaps even dial 911, and officers assist me and add it to their caseload. In this example, I’m paying them literally nothing. This would be a “handout,” right? Once again: a “handout” is, literally, money given by the federal government to individual recipients. > [@](#): > > In my opinion, I have a moral obligation to help my fellow man, and I understand that I am incredibly lucky to be in good health. You do. You don’t have an obligation, emphatically, to help your fellow man by reaching into other people’s pockets. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/303 "2014-07-22T16:17:37Z")
I understand that, but since the government already does “reach into” mine and everyone else’s pockets to pay for emergency medical service, why couldn’t that money be spent instead on general health insurance? That’s the part I’m not getting: _it already happens._ I’ve said I’m fine with handouts, and you aren’t, but what is the distinction between “money given to people to pay hospitals for healthcare” and “money given to hospitals to pay for people to get healthcare?” Returning to my police example: why is that not a handout? I’m not paying for the service, some other taxpayer is. Would you object to healthcare if it was paid directly to the insurance company, instead of indirectly to an insurance company? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/304 "2014-07-22T16:19:14Z")
There is no real need to call them Nazis, we can simply refer to them as “Republicans”. We did not define the meaning, they did. There \*are \*honest conservatives, men who recognize the need for change but are anxious that it be done prudently and cautiously. I do not scorn such men as these, their counsel is worthy, their criticism welcome. Even a good change can come about too suddenly, when it could be more valuable and pertinent if it were implemented with care. But those men are ashamed today. Certainly they would be insulted to be called “Nazis”. But neither are they pleased to be called “Republicans”. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/305 "2014-07-22T16:19:42Z")
Don’t get too riled up about this folks. The judges for this panel had already been revealed and this panel had already held oral argument by the time \*\*Bricker \*\*made his bet. There was never really any question about whether Griffith and Randolph would vote to overturn. The real question is whether the Supreme Court will take cert when the _en banc_ court overturns the panel, and if so, which way Kennedy will vote. If you think you know the answer to that question with enough confidence to bet at even odds, more power to you. I think the rest of us take it as a coin flip. ETA: A more interesting bet would be whether the conservatives on the Supreme Court win any of the liberals (or vice versa), or whether the liberals on D.C. Circuit win any of the conservatives. That would be a better indicator of how obvious the merit is on either side. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/306 "2014-07-22T16:20:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [According to this impartial source, it is:](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/07/22/3459165/halbig/) Spit take. Think Progress is an impartial source!? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/307 "2014-07-22T16:21:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree, which is of course why I offered the bet. 😃 > > I predict the government will ask for _en banc_ review. I give them a 65% chance of winning at _en banc_. I see a virtually certain four votes for cert from the Supremes, regardless of a circuit split. It is not a certainty, AFAIU, that the government will get an _en banc_ review. Granting it is not automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/308 "2014-07-22T16:22:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [According to this impartial source, it is:](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/07/22/3459165/halbig/) A “drafting error” that appears how many different times in the law? Does your impartial Think Progress source mention how often this “drafting error” was repeated? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/309 "2014-07-22T16:23:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I understand that, but since the government already does “reach into” mine and everyone else’s pockets to pay for emergency medical service, why couldn’t that money be spent instead on general health insurance? It isn’t. It is spent on handouts. > [@](#): > > Returning to my police example: why is that not a handout? I’m not paying for the service, some other taxpayer is. Because it is not money handed out to you by the government. > [@](#): > > Would you object to healthcare if it was paid directly to the insurance company, instead of indirectly to an insurance company? Then it would be a handout to the insurance company, and I would object to that as well. But it would have less of a corrupting effect on individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/310 "2014-07-22T16:23:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is not a certainty, AFAIU, that the government will get an _en banc_ review. Granting it is not automatic. Correct. But notice I’m not offering bets on the proposition of the court not granting _en banc_ review? ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/311 "2014-07-22T16:25:31Z")
Cool, I’m getting closer to understanding your objection. Apologies if it seems I’m asking repetitive questions, I want to be sure I fully understand your position clearly. So, to clarify: when the government pays for emergency medical services (for instance: a homeless person with no insurance is hit by a speeding car and seriously injured), that’s a “handout,” correct? Do you want to get rid of this handout? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/312 "2014-07-22T16:26:18Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Don’t get too riled up about this folks. The judges for this panel had already been revealed and this panel had already held oral argument by the time \*\*Bricker \*\*made his bet. Yes. And I even offered the participants in the thread a link to that oral argument, in the interests of full disclosure. > [@](#): > > There was never really any question about whether Griffith and Randolph would vote to overturn. The real question is whether the Supreme Court will take cert when the _en banc_ court overturns the panel, and if so, which way Kennedy will vote. If you think you know the answer to that question with enough confidence to bet at even odds, more power to you. I think the rest of us take it as a coin flip. I agree it’s not certain, but I like the even odds bet just fine. I wouldn’t give away 2:1 (as some troublemaker above hinted at) but I’m fine with even money. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/313 "2014-07-22T16:26:56Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Cool, I’m getting closer to understanding your objection. Apologies if it seems I’m asking repetitive questions, I want to be sure I fully understand your position clearly. > > So, to clarify: when the government pays for emergency medical services (for instance: a homeless person with no insurance is hit by a speeding car and seriously injured), that’s a “handout,” correct? No, it isn’t. It is a service provided by the government. You really cannot understand the difference, can you? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/314 "2014-07-22T16:28:55Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Spit take. > > Think Progress is an impartial source!? :eek: Reality, by definition, has a liberal bias. Sites that appear to some to be liberal are in fact the closed to objective truth. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/315 "2014-07-22T16:30:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > A “drafting error” that appears how many different times in the law? > > Does your impartial Think Progress source mention how often this “drafting error” was repeated? Doesn’t matter. The intent is unmistakeable. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/316 "2014-07-22T16:31:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, it isn’t. It is a service provided by the government. You really cannot understand the difference, can you? I’m unashamed to admit I’m struggling with the core concept, yes. Government pays for emergency medical care: government service. Government pays for medical care before something becomes an emergency: handout. I’m with you so far, right? Not misstating your beliefs? It ultimately comes down to that distinction, I believe. I’m fine with pre-emergency care becoming a government service, and you’re opposed. What I (and likely others) want to know is WHY that would become a crippling dependence addiction for people taking advantage of it. I believe people would go to take care of issues before they become emergencies. You believe they would go just to go? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/317 "2014-07-22T16:32:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Think Progress is an impartial source!? As a radical lefty, I am annoyed by _ThinkProgress_ unfortunate commitment to some mythical “centrism”. Annoys me every day, because that is how often I read them. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/318 "2014-07-22T16:34:06Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m unashamed to admit I’m struggling with the core concept, yes. > > Government pays for emergency medical care: government service. > > Government pays for medical care before something becomes an emergency: handout. > > I’m with you so far, right? Not misstating your beliefs? Yes, you are misstating them. The distinction: government handing out money (NOT paying someone, but handing out money) is a handout. Obamacare subsidies are, explicitly and expressly, handouts. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/319 "2014-07-22T16:35:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, you are misstating them. > > The distinction: government handing out money (NOT paying someone, but handing out money) is a handout. Obamacare subsidies are, explicitly and expressly, handouts. I see. Thanks for clarifying. Would you then be opposed with a single-payer system, where the government pays for all healthcare? That would clearly and unequivocally be a service under your definition, as nobody is ever handed money or subsidies. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/320 "2014-07-22T16:37:10Z")
The Founding Fathers had no health insurance, and did not contemplate providing it! And are not mud and leeches still freely available? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=17)