# I admire the tenacity of republicans **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614 "2014-07-20T18:13:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/161 "2014-07-21T17:53:58Z")
Why argue with **Terr**? It’s just a BS semantic discussion on whether things are termed with the pejorative “handout” for stuff he doesn’t like, or the noble term “service” for stuff he does like. For example, government maintenance of an independent judiciary is a “service.” Allowing poor people to have free legal representation when they are accused of a crime is a “handout.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/162 "2014-07-21T17:57:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Handout implies it is money handed out, unearned, from the government to the recipient. I’m sure you see it as “unearned”, but this is nothing more than your opinion. > [@](#): > > There is a difference between job benefits and handouts. One is earned. The other isn’t. Says you, based on your definitions and your distinctions. Others see it differently. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/163 "2014-07-21T18:02:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Just a couple of questions, **Terr**. **Do you buy your kids clothes? Do you give them presents? Do you feed and house them?** > > How did they _earn_ this largesse? Because \*\*Terr \*\*remembers they choose the nursing home. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/164 "2014-07-21T18:05:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … which is what Obamacare is doing and that is why I hope it dies the death it so richly deserves. Are you sure you don’t mean that you hope the uninsured die the deaths they so richly deserve? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/165 "2014-07-21T18:13:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Just a couple of questions, **Terr**. Do you buy your kids clothes? Do you give them presents? Do you feed and house them? > > How did they _earn_ this largesse? Thank you for illustrating the liberal mindset. The government is the daddy. And mommy. The citizens are children, who cannot care for themselves, or decide for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/166 "2014-07-21T18:18:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Thank you for illustrating the liberal mindset. The government is the daddy. And mommy. The citizens are children, who cannot care for themselves, or decide for themselves. And you are illustrating the conservative mindset. Fuck poor people and let them all die. Oh is that not quite an accurate representation of your views? Hey what’s good for the goose … ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/167 "2014-07-21T18:27:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, no and no. All those are government services. A handout is, literally, money that is handed out. Unearned. Services can be argued about. Handouts corrupt. I honestly don’t understand why you think there’s a distinction. Public schools are good. But would public education be bad if, instead of it just being free for everyone, it cost $500 per year for everyone, but the government gave everyone a $500 voucher that could be used only for education? Or am I missing some important point here? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/168 "2014-07-21T18:27:29Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And you are illustrating the conservative mindset. Fuck poor people and let them all die. How else am I supposed to interpret the fact that in response to me criticizing handouts **running coach** gives the example of children? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/169 "2014-07-21T18:28:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Thank you for illustrating the liberal mindset. The government is the daddy. And mommy. The citizens are children, who cannot care for themselves, or decide for themselves. Why should fire protection, police protection, and education be public services, and health should not? How does the latter make us a nanny state while the former do not? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/170 "2014-07-21T18:30:33Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I honestly don’t understand why you think there’s a distinction. Public schools are good. But would public education be bad if, instead of it just being free for everyone, it cost $500 per year for everyone, but the government gave everyone a $500 voucher that could be used only for education? Yes. As I said, handouts corrupt. The correct way would be for the government to take less taxes from everyone, so that they have money to spend on their kids’ education. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/171 "2014-07-21T18:32:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How else am I supposed to interpret the fact that in response to me criticizing handouts **running coach** gives the example of children? The only way you could think to respond to his questions was to make an outrageous and laughably incorrect generalization of half of the population? That was seriously your only idea? Answering the question didn’t occur to you? I’m still waiting for your alternative suggestion for how we pay for poor people’s healthcare. If subsidies are no good, then what do you suggest that doesn’t amount to ‘just let them all die’, or pay full retail when they keep going to the emergency room? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/172 "2014-07-21T18:33:31Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Why should fire protection, police protection, and education be public services, and health should not? How does the latter make us a nanny state while the former do not? Fire protection, police protection and education are local services, funded by local taxes. If you want to come up with health care being done the same way, great. And you’re misstating what I said. “Health” is not a public service, wasn’t before, and isn’t today. Why is local better than federal? Because if I don’t like the way the local government is run or how the local taxes are being spent, I can move. Moving away from the country is a lot harder. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/173 "2014-07-21T18:33:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. As I said, handouts corrupt. The correct way would be for the government to take less taxes from everyone, so that they have money to spend on their kids’ education. Your definition of “handouts” is wrong, and your idea of the “correct way” would lead to far more corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/174 "2014-07-21T18:35:24Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The only way you could think to respond to his questions was to make an outrageous and laughably incorrect generalization of half of the population? That was seriously your only idea? Answering the question didn’t occur to you? The question was stupid and not worth answering. Comparing government giving handouts to some citizens with caring for your children is a non-sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/175 "2014-07-21T18:36:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. As I said, handouts corrupt. The correct way would be for the government to take less taxes from everyone, so that they have money to spend on their kids’ education. And poor kids? Fuck them right? Why should they be able to get an education. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/176 "2014-07-21T18:37:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Fire protection, police protection and education are local services, funded by local taxes. They also receive federal funding. > [@](#): > > “Health” is not a public service, wasn’t before, and isn’t today. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be. Education wasn’t a public service until a certain time, nor was police protection, nor was fire protection. > [@](#): > > Why is local better than federal? Because if I don’t like the way the local government is run or how the local taxes are being spent, I can move. Moving away from the country is a lot harder. Local government has also been responsible for most of the government discrimination (and government-tolerated discrimination) of the last century. Local government is worse than federal because, in relatively recent history, local government has been far more likely to practice ‘tyranny of the majority’ against various minorities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/177 "2014-07-21T18:38:07Z")
My fellow citizens are my people. if they are not my people, who’s people are they? Oh, shit, I’m reasoning with **Terr**. Swore to stop doing that. Damn! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/178 "2014-07-21T18:39:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How else am I supposed to interpret the fact that in response to me criticizing handouts **running coach** gives the example of children? That was **silenus** , you lower-class twit. What’s wrong, the free education didn’t take? Have trouble reading and you need to be spoonfed viewpoints? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/179 "2014-07-21T18:41:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The question was stupid and not worth answering. Comparing government giving handouts to some citizens with caring for your children is a non-sequitur. You could have asked for clarification on how that poster felt their question was relevant. Maybe you just didn’t pick up on the point they were making and they could have explained what they meant so you could better understand what they were getting at. Or you could make some asinine sweeping statement about the liberal mindset. Your choice tells us how open you are to debate and the exchange of ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614/180 "2014-07-21T18:43:03Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And poor kids? Fuck them right? Why should they be able to get an education. :rolleyes: For those whose parents cannot afford paying for schooling, government should set up public schools. For those who cannot afford food, government should set up soup kitchens. etc. But it is a handout. It should be recognized that it is a handout, that it is evil, and it corrupts, and should be given in dire situations only. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-admire-the-tenacity-of-republicans/693614.md?page=10)