# I agree with al Qaeda.... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023 "2007-02-13T15:39:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/61 "2007-02-14T03:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t frequent lefty blogs. [Here’s this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_substance_abuse_controversy) from wiki: [/QUOTE] I read the wiki link earlier on my own. That’s not a cite that bush claimed he drank “heavily” for 10 years. I’m done here. You don’t even have the honesty to admit you were misquoting your source. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/62 "2007-02-14T03:42:40Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I read the wiki link earlier on my own. That’s not a cite that bush claimed he drank “heavily” for 10 years. I’m done here. You don’t even have the honesty to admit you were misquoting your source. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say that was my source for the specific “heavy drinking” quote, so I didn’t fucking “misquote” anything. I cited wiki because it had the quotes where he admitted to drinking 'too much" and drinking daily (for 20 years, not 10) and to “hard drinking” in college. I know he also once said he drank “heavily,” but I don’t remember where I saw it (it wasn’t a lefty blog). I’ve tried to google it and I can find references to it but not a direct citation for the source. I thought the wiki cite had enough quotes which were substantially the same that it wouldn’t make a difference. Let me ask you this, if i can find the quote for Bush using the word “heavy,” will you concede that he’s an alcoholic? If not, the what’s the point of asking for the cite? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/63 "2007-02-14T04:04:37Z")
After much searching, I can find references to Bush admitting specifically to “heavy drinking” in a couple of reputable places (PBS, the Telegraph), but they don’t say where the quote came from. I think it might have been his autobography but I’m not sure. Anyway, since I can’t find the specific source of that quote, I’ll retract it for now and let the rest of the evidence stand on its own. (But, **Mace** , I’d still like to know if that one cite was really going to be the thing that tipped you over) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/64 "2007-02-14T15:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Not at all. Negative consequences is a necessary criterion. Also “daily use” could mean as little as a glass of wine. Both questions are relevant. [/QUOTE] I was specifically referring to your comment about “craving” alcohol. > [@](#): > > Did you literally drink that much _every_ day for all those years? Did you ever skip a day? Skip a week? Might have skipped a day. Never a week. I worked in restaurants. We were young and stupid. Every night after work we would go to a bar, and then grab a couple of sixes at closing time and go home. > [@](#): > > If you did, I’d have to lean toward saying you probably are an addict. Except when the alcohol was no longer part of my social construct, the ‘craving’ went away. I was a bit surprised myself. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/65 "2007-02-14T15:22:26Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I was specifically referring to your comment about “craving” alcohol. Might have skipped a day. Never a week. I worked in restaurants. We were young and stupid. Every night after work we would go to a bar, and then grab a couple of sixes at closing time and go home. Except when the alcohol was no longer part of my social construct, the ‘craving’ went away. I was a bit surprised myself. [/QUOTE] You didn’t have consequences or use in spite of them so you might not have had the gene. Maybe it was just all environmental. Statistically it would be exceptional to have that kind of sustained amount of use without being acoholic but not impossible, I guess. GWB was not one of thse cases. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023/66 "2007-02-14T19:19:11Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not the particular game that makes someone an addictive gambler. It’s the reward intiated by risk-taking. Sure, every president has to take some risks, but they don’t have to take _unnecessary risks_ and they don’t have to chase losses. Bush is gambling with lives instead of money, but he’s still gambling. [/QUOTE] The Iraq war was started by a lot of ideologues who honestly believed that the invasion would bring peace and democracy to the middle east. I know it’s brain bogglingly stupid, but that was their belief. In their minds the invasion was worth the risk. I don’t think you need to bring up difficult to verify psychological diagnoses to explain the results of stupidity and ideological blindness. While Bush bears ultimate responsibility for the war, it was the product of many people, some with official cabinet positions (Cheney, Rumsfeld) and some merely promoting it (PNAC, The Weekly Standard, various pundits). It’s easier for me to believe that they are all stupid arrogant ideologues than that they all have unresolved issues with compulsive gambling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-al-qaeda/392023.md?page=3)