# I Agree with Everything She Said, and yet, NNNYYYRRRRRAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611 "2010-04-10T03:42:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/201 "2010-04-19T16:05:07Z")
So yuo don’t like being called a rake? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/202 "2010-04-19T16:37:22Z")
Nah, I prefer “slacker”. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/203 "2010-04-20T02:01:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **Vinyl Turnip** has it right. “Chick” isn’t sexist, it’s simply informal. Now, a reasonably common form of sexism is using informal or familiar terms in inapropriate circumstances. But that doesn’t make the term itself sexist. It’s like, If I call my girlfriend “sweetie,” that’s not sexist. If I call my secretary “sweetie,” I’m a sexist asshole. Well, it’s also an animal term, something found in spades (ha) when it comes to words for women. Cow, bitch, nag, pussy, sex kitten, shrew, vixen… I mean, you could argue that any of those are offensive and not offensive depending on the context – but then it’s all context. (I think this thread is done, but what the hey.) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/204 "2010-04-20T02:08:29Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Well, it’s also an animal term, something found in spades (ha) when it comes to words for women. Just so we’re clear, what conclusion do you draw from this fact? It’s kind of hard to see quite a few as offensive in any but the strangest situations… “She’s a total vixen.” “You take that back!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/205 "2010-04-20T02:08:59Z")
If we resurrect it after a half a year can we say “I agree with everything she said, and yet, NNNYYYRRRRRAAAAARRRRRRRGGGHHHHH, BRAINSSSSS!” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/206 "2010-04-20T02:20:51Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Just so we’re clear, what conclusion do you draw from this fact? > It’s kind of hard to see quite a few as offensive in any but the strangest situations… > “She’s a total vixen.” > “You take that back!!!” That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/207 "2010-04-20T02:22:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “There, there. While I grudgingly concede that your conclusions (such as they can be discerned) are fraudulent and based on horseshit, don’t feel bad. Even if they _weren’t_, the unenlightened RACISTS AND SEXISTS in this thread would still reject them, because they’re just _champing at the bit_ to marginalize you, so either way your victimhood is preserved. You go, girl!” “Grudgingly concede?” I don’t know how your setup works, but there’s like, all kinds of places in my house that are not my computer, and all kinds of places on my internet that are not this thread. The entire rest of the world hasn’t yet ground down my willpower to the point that I’m forced to involuntarily comment on Straight Dope controversies. Edit: also I’d like to share with everyone the following bit of scholarship from Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > A vixen is a female that gives a hard on to men. In case you thought it meant something else. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/208 "2010-04-20T02:31:44Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? Comparisons to animals aren’t uniquely applied to women, though. Animal comparisons are some of the most common metaphors in the English language - in just about any language, I suspect. I don’t think one can create a meaningful link between, “often compared to animals,” and “subhuman status.” Unless one wants to argue that Richard the Lion-Hearted was considered subhuman by his contemporaries. Now, one can make some valid conclusions about the status of women in a society by examining what sorts of animals they’re most commonly compared to. But, again, that doesn’t prove that each individual comparison is offensive. Just because “bitch” is offensive, it does not automatically follow that “chick” is. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/209 "2010-04-20T02:38:03Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? Yeah, men can be such sexist pigs. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/210 "2010-04-20T02:51:28Z")
Stud! Stallion! Workhorse! Lone wolf! Top dog! Strong as an ox! It’s almost as though we _were_ animals, at some point distant… > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > “Grudgingly concede?” > > I don’t know how your setup works, but there’s like, all kinds of places in my house that are not my computer, and all kinds of places on my internet that are not this thread. The entire rest of the world hasn’t yet ground down my willpower to the point that I’m forced to involuntarily comment on Straight Dope controversies. **Jimmy** … you know that part between the quotation marks was supposed to be you paraphrased, right? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/211 "2010-04-20T03:31:27Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? So your implication is that using non-human imagery is, by definition, somehow tied to ‘subhuman’ status? And/or that there aren’t also a large number of non-human comparisons that we can use when describing someone of either gender? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/212 "2010-04-20T03:49:53Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? Shush! Go lie down in the corner! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/213 "2010-04-20T04:46:20Z")
Meh. I’d like everyone with a female boss to start calling them a chick wherever they might call a male boss a guy. And if she or anyone else has a problem with it, show her the thread. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/214 "2010-04-20T05:02:54Z")
Wait, because “chick” isn’t equivalent to “guy” that proves what, exactly? I doubt many people would also refer to their male boss as a “dude”, or what have you. What are acceptable slang terms for ‘woman’, in your lexicon? I assume you’d have a problem with either “gal” or “girl”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/215 "2010-04-20T05:46:34Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Meh. I’d like everyone with a female boss to start calling them a chick wherever they might call a male boss a guy. And if she or anyone else has a problem with it, show her the thread. Again, “chick” is an informal term, and talking to your boss is a formal situation. Just because it’s inappropriate to use with your boss doesn’t mean that it’s offensive. Also, to the extent that these terms exist as gendered pairs, “chick” is not the opposite of “guy.” “Girl” is the opposite to “guy.” If “chick” has an opposite, it’d probably be “dude.” But even then, these are not perfect binaries. I could probably get away with referring to a male boss as a dude easier than I could a female boss as a chick. But does that mean that “chick” is inherently offensive? Or is it because there’s a stronger social taboo against familiarity with a female boss than there is with a male boss? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/216 "2010-04-20T06:02:31Z")
Dude isn’t comparable because it can be used as a 2nd person pronoun in place of ‘you’, or in the 3rd person as well. I’ve never heard ‘chick’ used in the 2nd person pronoun sense. The only thing female near equivalent I can thnk of is ‘babe’, but only in the sense of being applicable in the 2nd or 3rd person. It has some other connotations which make it… not equivalent to ‘dude’ either. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/217 "2010-04-20T06:13:17Z")
But that shows us nothing and tells us less. Yes, English has a different ‘gendered sets’ of nouns, adjectives, etc… and they’re not always fungible. But it smacks of sophomoric literary criticism to go from there to seeing an overarching social narrative in whether or not “gal” is more or less colloquial than “guy”. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/218 "2010-04-20T12:54:09Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Yeah, men can be such sexist pigs. They probably learned it when they were kids. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/219 "2010-04-20T12:56:15Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > That throughout history (and currently, throughout the world) women have often been compared to animals and enjoyed subhuman status, so there are tons of animal-related synonyms to pull from? Best user name/post combo ever! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611/220 "2010-04-21T00:26:29Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > **Jimmy** … you know that part between the quotation marks was supposed to be you paraphrased, right? Right. And you said “grudgingly concede,” so I pointed out that I didn’t have to say anything at all if I really didn’t want to disagree with the OP. Why hasn’t anyone said hung like a horse yet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-agree-with-everything-she-said-and-yet-nnnyyyrrrrraaaaaarrrrrrrggghhhh/535611.md?page=12)