# I almost had to cut a bitch in obedience class yesterday. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471 "2009-06-30T14:16:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/21 "2009-06-30T15:22:12Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > Big dogs are more along the lines of ’ Hi, come love me and I need a nap…ooooh food!" Yep. Last year I posted about a friend getting sued because her yellow lab viciously attacked a poodle and nearly killed it. We’re still not quite sure what happened, but she was found not at fault. And little dogs ALWAYS try to start a scrap with the lab. I’ve seen it again and again. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/22 "2009-06-30T15:28:48Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > They are a breed that was bred specifically to be aggressive and fight and clamp down with specifically-bred jaws of steel. You’re not really doing your part in the fight against ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/23 "2009-06-30T15:29:38Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sounds like you’re nervous about all that too. > > I don’t think this class is a good match for you. A big shelter dog needs something more professional and less overall distracting. Yeah, it’s cool to expose your dog to all the excitement of PetCo and get him used to being around dogs and people…but the “trainer” didn’t even know his breed. He needs room to practice and a quiet environment where he can focus on you and the task at hand. Those in-store “obedience classes” are a ripoff. Take him to PetCo to walk around for fun, but don’t expect your experience with the classes to get better. Actually, he’s doing really well. I was surprised that the trainer thought he was a pit bull despite looking _nothing like one_ (yes, he looks like a mean-ass junkyard dog, but not a pit) because I really, really like the trainer and he seems to know a lot about dogs. (However, I’ve known some people who knew a hell of a lot about dogs without knowing anything at all about mutts and ghetto dogs.) We came farther with pulling on the leash yesterday after class using the methods he taught than we had in months on our own. The “holy crap these other dogs are here and I smell a parakeet” thing will please god hopefully die down soon, because otherwise the class is really great. I called the local obedience club and e-mailed and tried to get in touch with them for MONTHS before going with PetSmart, but they never returned my contacts. What are you gonna do, when the local people aren’t interested? I wanted to work with them partly because I think Captain would really enjoy agility or flyball or something, and they do that, but when they won’t return your e-mails there’s not a lot you can do about it. When my old dog was a puppy we went to a class with them and it was fantastic, so I was disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/24 "2009-06-30T15:31:16Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yup. That’s the ONLY reason dogs get scared and nervous. The only one - you can look it up. Good point, ZipperJJ… :rolleyes: Dude, I was not trying to say that AT ALL. I went through 4 years of obedience school with my big dog, and have her out in public a lot. If your dog is already scared and acting up, you’re doing it a disservice to respond to its nervousness by being tense yourself. Dogs take their cues from the other end of the leash. I’m just sayin’ that it’s obvious the dog was going to be freaking out in this situation, and **Zsofia** knew it coming in and it made HER tense. Then the whole situation got more tense when **Zsofia** got so offended by the stupid classmate and trainer. “I almost had to cut a bitch” is not a calm and cool reaction to anything. I’m not accusing her of making her dog freak out (she listed some very valid reasons why he was freaking out) I am just pointing out that she didn’t do anything to help CALM HIM DOWN, and may have made him worse. When you’re in obedience class - especially in such a stimulating environment - you have to focus on the dog so the dog can focus on you. She let something interrupt that flow and it’s not going to help either of them. ETA: I’m not trying to put **Zsofia** down, either. My dog’s biggest problem is me being nervous as well. We had a hell of a time in our classes, until I learned to calm the fuck down. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/25 "2009-06-30T15:32:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have to disagree. I’m a dog lover- not a dog expert- but I wouldn’t want to meet yours in a dark alley. Or even a well-lit one. I’m sure he is adorable (the second picture definitely is!) but I can see how somebody might be scared of him. What are you disagreeing with me about? The dog does not look like a pit bull. Do you think he does? If not, then we do not disagree. Is he a big dog? Yes. But Captain was not alone, in a dark alley, under which circumstances I wouldn’t want to meet any sort of animal. He was in a well-lit PetSmart on a leash with his owner, and an instructor, who presumably should be able to tell that’s not a pit bull, said something that only made the situation worse. Find a different obedience class, is my opinion. One where the instructor actually knows what a pit bull looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/26 "2009-06-30T15:40:34Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Dogs take their cues from the other end of the leash. Well, I mean, that _is_ why we’re going to classes. They’re not really _dog_ obedience classes, per se. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/27 "2009-06-30T15:41:01Z")
I don’t think he looks like a pit bull. I do think he’s a bit scary-looking. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/28 "2009-06-30T15:44:11Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > Yeah I’m not feeling it. I can barely tell one breed of dog from another, so for someone to think to get in my face because I mistook Breed X for Breed Y is over the top. Second, I hear all the pit bull owners talk about how sweet and gentle and not dangerous at all they are, yet they scare the _crap_ outta me. I wouldn’t get near one with a ten-foot pole. They are a breed that was bred specifically to be aggressive and fight and clamp down with specifically-bred jaws of steel. I don’t care how well-raised your pit is and how much fun they have playing with your toddler and how much you think they’re just the sweetest li’l ole baby. Get it the fuck away from me. To be fair to the pit bulls, they were bred to be dog aggressive, not people aggressive. An actual pit bull should be extremely adverse to biting humans. After all, their handers had to be able to hold them before fights and grab them afterwards, not something you want to do with a dog that bites anything indiscriminately. This is a [pit bull terrier](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:American_Pit_Bull_Terrier_-_Seated.jpg). I think a lot of the attacks you hear about actually come from dogs that have been cross bred with God knows what else and likely as not inbred until they more resemble the monstrosities on [this page](http://mrpitbull.com/males.html) than an actual pit bull. Of course, there’s a lot of middle ground between a real pit bull and the [caricature mutants](http://mrpitbull.com/PitBulls/Pitbull-Pictures-BlueBells/slides/Gotti-Gottiline-Pitbulls-P2160527cr.html) some people call pit bulls and I know it can be hard to tell some of them apart. ---
**Author:** ![Claire\_Beauchamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@Claire\_Beauchamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claire_Beauchamp)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/29 "2009-06-30T15:44:45Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You’re not really doing your part in the fight against ignorance. > **[Are pit bulls really all that dangerous?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343961/are-pit-bulls-really-all-that-dangerous)** I’ll continue to keep my distance, thanks. Same with Rottweilers and German Shepherds. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/30 "2009-06-30T15:46:32Z")
I’m a dog guy and I get the initial feeling, but you’re missing the mark here Z. As stated, it’s good the sheltie owner was asking questions. There’s not a lot of doubt that the wee mongrel is little more than a fashion accessory to the aforementioned cunt, that not withstanding however, it’s on you to to help dispel the stupidity (ignorance) she’s displaying. She’s not confident, nor is she an experienced dog owner, this can lead to a disaster if she lets her little nipper smell the wrong rump. Living where I do, I often get people who recoil actively from my dogs. Neither looks or acts aggressive, and in fact the active 'AAAAHHH!!! DOGSZZZ!!!111one! reaction provokes them into acting somewhat out of character in what could be construed as aggro when they’re not. Still, they can’t know it, so I have to take a breath and scold, er, educate, the full grown adults who run like scared children from happy, tail-wagging mutts who’d just as soon lick your face than bite your ankle. Often I scare them more than the dogs do when I say in my best authoritative outside voice: “STOP DOING THAT, YOU ARE PROVOKING THEM, THEY WILL NOT HURT YOU!” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/31 "2009-06-30T15:47:52Z")
Doesn’t the term ‘pit bull’ cover a range of breeds? The first pic does seem like the dog could have some Staffordshire terrier in it. For the most part I don’t fear them by default – just their idiot owners who use them to compensate for their pathetic manhood. You being in an obedience class would automatically quell my fears, at least in part, since you’re probably not there to start an underground dog fighting league. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/32 "2009-06-30T15:49:24Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > [Are pit bulls really all that dangerous? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2863/are-pit-bulls-really-all-that-dangerous) > > I’ll continue to keep my distance, thanks. Same with Rottweilers and German Shepherds. Then you wouldn’t be in a dog obedience class, where presumably you have to accept whatever kind of dog appears there, whether you like it or not. Thus, though you are entitled to them, your prejudices are irrelevant, and if the woman in the OP felt as you do, she was pretty dumb to go to a large canine obedience class. There might be scary-looking dogs there. It’s part of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/33 "2009-06-30T16:06:28Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > I’ll continue to keep my distance, thanks. Same with Rottweilers and German Shepherds. Your post commented on pitbulls with “specifically-bred jaws of steel”, something Cecil addressed and dismissed in the column you cited. I have no problem being wary of any large dogs, but let’s use facts to support the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/34 "2009-06-30T16:10:22Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > [Are pit bulls really all that dangerous? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2863/are-pit-bulls-really-all-that-dangerous) > > I’ll continue to keep my distance, thanks. Same with Rottweilers and German Shepherds. That’s, like, Cecil’s worst column ever. Scientists at the Center for Disease Control say there ARE no – none, zero, nada, not any – NO scientifically-derived bite statistics by breed. They do not exist – and probably cannot be compiled, given the ignorance and prejudice in bite reporting. [QUOTE=CDC] There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill. [/QUOTE] So for Cecil to say “(1) Research to date suggests pit bulls are somewhere near the top of the list of biters” is like saying “Research suggests the World Trade Center was destroyed by US government conspiracy to promote vaccinations, which cause autism.” Sure, BAD, discredited research “suggests” that. Admittedly this is a complex subject – the reasons pit bulls have a bad reputation is complex, that is; not “whether or not they’re evil.” **Zsofia** , welcome to my world. A world where people move nervously away from my happy dog only AFTER they hear the word “pit;” they weren’t scared of her before that moment because they can see she’s a sweetie. A world where local government weenies occasionally try to kill my family members to raise their own perceived popularity. **Claire Beauchamp** , please continue to stay away from pit bulls – [if you have any idea which ones they are](http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html). **Unlike** labs, German Shepherds, chihuahuas, poodles, and countless other guarding, working, show, and toy breeds, pit bulls have been ruthlessly selected for 200-250 years to be submissive toward, and gentle with, humans (because their handlers wouldn’t tolerate a human-aggressive pit bull). I wouldn’t want you to hurt one. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/35 "2009-06-30T16:15:20Z")
Well, that’s true of _most_ breeds, except guard breeds, and to some extent toy breeds which people turn a blind eye to with regards to aggression. Nobody wants a scent hound or water retriever or sled dog or cattle dog or any other working dog who can’t be trusted not to bite the handler. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/36 "2009-06-30T16:21:36Z")
> [@Claire\_Beauchamp](#): > > I’ll continue to keep my distance, thanks. Same with Rottweilers and German Shepherds. You’d do better to avoid all unneutered male dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/37 "2009-06-30T16:33:19Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, that’s true of _most_ breeds, except guard breeds, and to some extent toy breeds which people turn a blind eye to with regards to aggression. Nobody wants a scent hound or water retriever or sled dog or cattle dog or any other working dog who can’t be trusted not to bite the handler. True, to some degree. But it wasn’t selected for _as ruthlessly_. People are willing to tolerate a bit of human aggression in a hunting dog that’s kept outside in a kennel until the hunt. People _actively cultivate_ suspicion toward strange humans in guarding breeds; it’s what they’re for. People consistently overlook human aggression in small dogs, because they’re not afraid of them. Conversely, fighting pit bulls were watched like hawks for any sign of human aggression, and usually killed by people unsentimental about dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/38 "2009-06-30T16:36:14Z")
My old, dearly-departed dog would bite the living shit out of you if you weren’t looking out (well, he would have if he were allowed among strangers, which he was not.) He looked [really dangerous.](http://www.flickr.com/photos/62555962@N00/3675843912/) In fact, that was the problem - people don’t just run up to Captain and try to pet him, they ask “Is your dog nice?” first. People just reach down and loom over and put tasty fingers close to a little dog’s mouth. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/39 "2009-06-30T16:38:53Z")
The last thing you want to do with that many dogs around is start a catfight. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471/40 "2009-06-30T16:41:29Z")
I coulda taken her. I also coulda taken her dog. I didn’t even _need_ Captain. I’d just feed him the scraps when I was done, 'cause he likes people food. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-almost-had-to-cut-a-bitch-in-obedience-class-yesterday/501471.md?page=3)