# I always knew Cheney was quick to temper after that, "Go fuck yourself,"... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164 "2006-02-12T21:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/361 "2006-02-15T15:57:14Z")
> [@wring](#): > > [here’s another one](http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=local&id=3774177) > > Enough? Not really. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. When you said this– > [@](#): > > It’s much more likely these days that even where there are “accidents” and some one dies, that the person behaving in a negligent manner is charged w/a crime. Drivers falling asleep at the wheel, stepping on the accelerator vs. the brake etc. I took it to mean that such charges were a common occurrence (even though I was confused by the examples about driving accidents, as we were talking about children.) I was expecting statistical support rather than two examples, one of which clearly states that the criminal charges are a technicality, while the other provides scant information, including whether an adult was present, an item I stated in my question to you. Surely if “back then” kids were not charged as criminals, while “nowadays” they are, you would be able to point to the fat part of the bell curve, and not have to rely on outliers, no? If kids get charged in accidental shootings these days, why in the world do you suppose Cheney, an adult, was not? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/362 "2006-02-15T17:02:08Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > From **Fear Itself** ’s link (bolding mine): So in other words, 100% Cheney’s fault. Whittington is completely blameless according to the authorities. So why is that dimwit Armstrong still blaming Whittington and now trying to make idiotic excuses, like “as darkness was encroaching and they were preparing to go inside.” That was one of the other safety rules of hunting and gun handling - If you can’t see, it’s time to stop and call it a day. As for anyone trying to blame the victim (Whittington), including the White House, the press secretary or anyone else, that is nonsense. The responsibility always is with the shooter. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/363 "2006-02-15T17:12:47Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Well, it sure wasn’t a “peppering.” Cheney shot the living fuck out of Whittington. Put him in intensive care. I mean, Cheney really blew him away, considering he was only loaded with birdshot! He really blasted Whittington! I mean, BLAMMO!!! Whoo-eee!!! Mowed the man down! > > As for the drinking, guess we’ll never know, since everyone there has every motivation to lie if he was, and the local cops weren’t allowed to talk to him for 24 hours. I wasn’t trying to minimize what happened in any way. According to some reports, the shooting distance was not 100 or 200 feet (as was claimed in some cites I read (but didn’t save the links to), but maybe closer to 30 feet. That is serious, even if using something tiny like number 8 or number 9 birdshot. It sure was not just a peppering or slight dusting at all. I think it was careless, reckless, irresponsible, and stupid. I hope (unlike alaric) that Whittington recovers. But, I have to side with Moto and Unclebeer… The jokes are out of place on BOTH sides of the aisle. Finally, if Cheney can not hunt safely anymore, he needs to give it up. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/364 "2006-02-15T17:41:08Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Not really. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. When you said this–I took it to mean that such charges were a common occurrence (even though I was confused by the examples about driving accidents, as we were talking about children.) I was expecting statistical support rather than two examples, one of which clearly states that the criminal charges are a technicality, while the other provides scant information, including whether an adult was present, an item I stated in my question to you. Surely if “back then” kids were not charged as criminals, while “nowadays” they are, you would be able to point to the fat part of the bell curve, and not have to rely on outliers, no? > If kids get charged in accidental shootings these days, why in the world do you suppose Cheney, an adult, was not? that was my point - why not Cheney? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/365 "2006-02-15T17:41:45Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I too thought it was a mild injury Hell, we _all_ did, until yesterday: what Katharine Armstrong said, what the White House said, even the published comments of one of the doctors, all came down on the side of trivializing Whittington’s injuries. I don’t think there’s any need for any of us to feel guilty about cracking jokes when we were told the damage was in the ‘minor abrasions and contusions, but basically fine’ range, rather than the ‘this guy’s been in the ICU for days, and will be in the hospital for a week or more’ range. > [@](#): > > I still think that, unless something more serious comes out about it, this is not a story with great political significance. I want to focus on the political decisions of political leaders, not on what they do during their private lives. If Cheney did something for which he should be imprisoned, that’s one thing; if his shooting had a political motive (say, Whittington is one of the disguised Venutians who control US oil policy), that’s one thing. But if it’s not a serious felony, and it’s not a political event, I think it’s a distraction to everyone except the people immediately involved. I half agree with you, and half disagree. I agree that Iran, Iraq, Katrina, the Medicare drug benefit, the NSA wiretapping (and other domestic spying programs), the Plame leak, and so forth, are fundamentally more important. The question is, can we get the media to sell the public on that? I don’t think so. But this story is one anybody can understand. People _like_ stories with individual people in them, rather than masses of undifferentiated people. _And_ it’s got the elements of many of those other stories. Especially a veep who seems to be above and beyond accountability, both to the law and to the public - and to the President for that matter, seemingly confirming the suspicions of those who refer to the “Cheney Administration.” [Looks like he’s going to be on TV tonight, though.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/15/AR2006021501133.html) But the WaPo says it’s going to be on Fox News Channel, which I gather is their cable channel, rather than the broadcast channel which shows “The Simpsons” and so forth. I’m hoping it’ll be on radio too, since at 6pm, I’ll be on my homeward commute. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/366 "2006-02-15T17:44:32Z")
> [@wring](#): > > that was my point - why not Cheney? Sorry. Obviously I did miss your point. We appear to be in accord. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/367 "2006-02-15T17:57:58Z")
So brave Deadeye Dickie is going to talk to Faux News. His courage never ceases to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/368 "2006-02-15T18:01:29Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > come to think, re:my fantasy scenario involving the hypothetical exchange with the ss man, perhaps there was interaction with a ss man close by (per elelle’s musings) and he did try to intervene unsuccessfully which would mandate keeping the secret service away from questions… Again, not to give the Prince of Darkness any undue credit…but how often are Secret Service agents interviewed? How often do they leak? Seems to me they’re one of the more closed-off groups in the country. Silence on their part probably isn’t a sign of…well, anything, really. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/369 "2006-02-15T18:32:39Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Again, not to give the Prince of Darkness any undue credit…but how often are Secret Service agents interviewed? How often do they leak? Essentially never, AFAIK. > [@](#): > > Seems to me they’re one of the more closed-off groups in the country. Silence on their part probably isn’t a sign of…well, anything, really. True. What’s disturbing is when they actively protect those under their care from things that aren’t threats to their person. For example, keeping local law enforcement from interviewing Cheney on Saturday evening. That’s none of their freakin’ business. I’d expect them to confiscate guns and other weapons at the door, and remain with Cheney through the interview just in case the local sheriff turned out to be Zarqawi, cleverly disguised. But it was not their place to prevent the local law from doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/370 "2006-02-15T18:48:14Z")
Articles have refered to a “misunderstanding” as the reason law enforcement didn’t interview Cheney that night, presumably between them and the Secret Service. I’m not interested in speculating as to it’s nature but do hope that at some point the details of it will be made evident. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/371 "2006-02-15T19:05:11Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I think it was careless, reckless, irresponsible, and stupid. And, of course, the long delay would give everyone in the party time to sober up - in case there was any need to do that. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/372 "2006-02-15T19:48:41Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > [Slate publishes some questions Whittington’s friends are asking](http://www.slate.com/id/2136206/): who, if anyone, was in charge of the hunt (apparently standard practice is for a nonparticipant to direct the action, to make sure firing stops when the hunters get out of line) About time, too. I raised this point, oh, two days ago when we were trying to apportion culpability. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/373 "2006-02-15T19:50:12Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > Well, if Cheney did indeed “whirl to shoot a covey of quail”, as [this link](http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=22&art_id=qw1139951704137B252) suggests, I think an arguement could be made that he was indeed “recklessly causing the death of an individual.” Then again, I’m no lawyer. Am I off base here? No, not entirely, but it’s important to understand that “recklessness” as it pertains to manslaughter has a specific definition in Texas law that may differ from what we usually refer to as reckless. In order for one’s behavior to be reckless, one has to actually perceive the great risk to human life and consciously disregard it – more specifically, “aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all circumstances as viewed from the actor’s standpoint.” A few examples of behaviors upheld by Texas courts as sufficiently reckless: - driving 100 in a 50, shearing another car completely in half on impact at an intersection, hitting it so hard the car was still doing 70 after impact - spinning a pitol on one’s finger in a truck, which discharges, kills other occupant - shooting a shotgun through the front door of a home - driving illegally with obstructed vision By contrast, criminally negligent homicide merely requires that the actor does not perceive the risk that an ordinary person would recognize. In layman’s terms you might say that criminal negligence is stupid behavior, and criminal recklessness is extremely f%@king stupid behavior. Manslaughter would be an appropriate charge if the VP, say, saw the bird three feet from Whittington’s head but decided he could make the shot anyway, but as it is it would be a hard sell for a prosecutor. Criminal negligence wouldn’t be an absolute lock, either; it’s a higher standard than what would constitute ordinary negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/374 "2006-02-15T20:10:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell, we all did, until yesterday: what Katharine Armstrong said, what the White House said, even the published comments of one of the doctors, all came down on the side of trivializing Whittington’s injuries. > > I don’t think there’s any need for any of us to feel guilty about cracking jokes when we were told the damage was in the ‘minor abrasions and contusions, but basically fine’ range, rather than the ‘this guy’s been in the ICU for days, and will be in the hospital for a week or more’ range. This is another case of partisans hypocritically wanting to have things both ways depending on which spin is better at the moment. If people are talking about Cheney’s possible criminal culpability, the party line is that Whittington’s injuries are trivial and the whole affair was just a minor boo-boo. But if people start making jokes about Cheney, the party line is that it’s appallingly bad taste to make jokes when poor Harry Whittington is lying at death’s door. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/375 "2006-02-15T20:42:11Z")
It’s official. [It was Cheney’s fault and his alone.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11361657/) At least according to him. No new word on who was in charge of the hunt, although Armstrong apparently is a past head of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. One would think that she would be up to date on hunt protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/376 "2006-02-15T20:50:47Z")
P.S. Cheny calls it “one of the worst days of my life.” What do you figure the odds are that, on one of the worst days of his life, another guy _not 30 yards_ away would be having an \*even worse one? \* Mind, meet boggle. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/377 "2006-02-15T21:09:49Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > About time, too. I raised this point, oh, two days ago when we were trying to apportion culpability. True. Now we know that they don’t know, either. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/378 "2006-02-15T21:16:44Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > This is another case of partisans hypocritically wanting to have things both ways depending on which spin is better at the moment. If people are talking about Cheney’s possible criminal culpability, the party line is that Whittington’s injuries are trivial and the whole affair was just a minor boo-boo. But if people start making jokes about Cheney, the party line is that it’s appallingly bad taste to make jokes when poor Harry Whittington is lying at death’s door. I’m sure there are a lot of situations that this analysis would apply to. And I’m sure the initial spin that Whittington’s injuries were trivial was exactly that - spin. But when you’re talking about having things both ways, you’re talking about a convenient _change_ in the spin. I’ve certainly seen that happen on other issues on other days, but I can’t see how it applies here. Unless you think the heart attack was bogus, ISTM that the seriousness of Whittington’s condition is no spin. And I haven’t been aware of anyone lecturing, say, Jon Stewart after the fact, saying he shouldn’t have been cracking jokes about Cheney on Monday night. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/379 "2006-02-15T21:17:20Z")
> [@Cheney](#): > > “The image of him falling is something I’ll never ever be able to get out of my mind,” Cheney said. “I fired, and there’s Harry falling. It was, I’d have to say, one of the worst days of my life at that moment.” Boy, good thing he didn’t personally see any of those 30,000+ fall in the war he helped pull the trigger on, huh? That’s a lot of images in his mind he’d have to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164/380 "2006-02-15T21:20:09Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > P.S. Cheny calls it “one of the worst days of my life.” What do you figure the odds are that, on one of the worst days of his life, another guy _not 30 yards_ away would be having an \*even worse one? \* Mind, meet boggle. Well, it may have been one of the worst days of his life, but at least he and his friends went back and got a decent dinner while they awaited news from the hospital. :rolleyes: If I’d just shot someone like that, I’d be feeling too sick to eat. And on preview, what **Revtim** said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-always-knew-cheney-was-quick-to-temper-after-that-go-fuck-yourself/344164.md?page=20)