# I am 17. It's dark and raining and this creep is following me, what should I do? Need answer fast. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864 "2012-04-04T23:32:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/81 "2012-04-06T15:52:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I am sure you know what I’m referring to: the mother of one witness says he saw Zimmerman on top was pressured to change his story. I am not saying she’s right, but it should be noted that that version of events is not undisputed. The mother of the witness said that her son initially said he did not see anything and then was pressured to say he did see something, at no point did he say he saw Zimmerman on top. The only reference to Zimmerman on top was from a witness who said she saw Zimmerman standing over Martin after the shooting and that Martin was most likely already dead. [Here](http://http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4)is an interview with a man who was less than ten yards away from the struggle and he says that Zimmerman was on the bottom, screaming for help. It was given the day after the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/82 "2012-04-06T16:07:20Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The mother of the witness said that her son initially said he did not see anything and then was pressured to say he did see something, at no point did he say he saw Zimmerman on top. The only reference to Zimmerman on top was from a witness who said she saw Zimmerman standing over Martin after the shooting and that Martin was most likely already dead. Not quite: > [@](#): > > But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn’t much movement, he said. But yes, the mother didn’t say her son saw Zimmerman on top. She says he didn’t see anybody on top of anybody. > [@](#): > > [Here](http://http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1phFMGCu4)is an interview with a man who was less than ten yards away from the struggle and he says that Zimmerman was on the bottom, screaming for help. It was given the day after the shooting. I am well aware of that. I’m pointing out that this version of the story is in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/83 "2012-04-06T17:10:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But last week another unidentified man told CNN that he saw a larger man on top and a boy underneath. There wasn’t much movement, he said. That paraphrase is wrong. We discussed this witness already. Here are his words, as explicit as can get: Anderson Cooper: “You say the shooter was on top?” Witness: “I can’t really say.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/84 "2012-04-06T20:10:40Z")
Out of curiosity, why does being on top or not being on top matter? I’ve seen plenty of fights, and been involved in plenty as well, and the guy on top usually has nothing to do with who started the fight. Also, that position generally changes several times during at least the early stages of a fight (and, as a martial artist, at least in my youth, my preferred position in a fight is actually on the bottom, since it gives you more options and leverage than being on top does). So, why does this point matter to anyone? What difference does it make? How does it ‘prove’ anything, one way or the other? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/85 "2012-04-06T20:18:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not quite: > But yes, the mother didn’t say her son saw Zimmerman on top. She says he didn’t see anybody on top of anybody. > I am well aware of that. I’m pointing out that this version of the story is in dispute. Are you really suggesting that hearsay is a valid dispute against an eyewitness account? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/86 "2012-04-06T20:29:33Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > Are you really suggesting that hearsay is a valid dispute against an eyewitness account? This isn’t a court, so we don’t have to assume some kind of bias against hearsay - particularly in the context in which I was bringing it up. However if the summary of the actual comment is as bad as **Terr** says, arguing about it is a waste of time. Still, I’d say **puddleglum** was wrong on a couple of points: > [@puddleglum](#): > > witnesses have corroborated his claim that Martin was on top of him, ramming his head into the sidewalk. They weren’t on the sidewalk when Martin was shot. > [@](#): > > There is audio evidence of him screaming for help. It hasn’t been confirmed that Zimmerman was screaming. > [@](#): > > there is no evidence that Martin acted in self defense. As I understand it (and I realize that **puddleglum** is echoing **Chronos** ’s use of the phrase "self defense), what matters is whether Martin had reason to fear he was in danger of being hurt or killed. It’s not just “acting in self defense” since it’s about the perception of a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/87 "2012-04-06T21:28:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It hasn’t been confirmed that Zimmerman was screaming for help. Actually, audio engineers have analyzed the 911 and specifically ruled that it WAS NOT Zimmerman. There’s only one other person than who could have been screaming for help before Trayvon Martin was shot to death. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/88 "2012-04-06T21:35:58Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Actually, audio engineers have analyzed the 911 and specifically ruled that it WAS NOT Zimmerman. So much for the experts: [http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/](http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/) Voice recognition experts who spoke to The Daily Caller questioned the methodology and conclusions of a voice-identification analysis published by the Orlando Sentinel on March 31. Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis. Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts. The problem, he said, is that the two voice samples were recorded in difficult acoustic conditions over different cell phones. “Even if we were to have Mr. Zimmerman recreate the scream under identical conditions with the same cell phone,” Wayman explained, “it would be difficult to attribute the scream to him without a sample of a similar scream from Mr. Martin under the same conditions. This is clearly not possible.” One voice authentication expert whose work is commercial in nature told TheDC that screaming, stress, and a recording’s audio quality can “wreak havoc” on voice biometric software and its ability to interpret data. And speaking of Owen’s findings, another industry insider said that “a legitimate biometrics expert would likely refute the contentions” and suggests that these were “incendiary publicity plays.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/89 "2012-04-06T21:41:58Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Actually, audio engineers have analyzed the 911 and specifically ruled that it WAS NOT Zimmerman. You’re making it sound a little more definitive than it was - one of them said he’s sure based on one type of analysis that it was not Zimmerman, and the other said he used software that returned a 48 percent chance it was Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/90 "2012-04-06T22:01:32Z")
> [@basefifty](#): > > All of these suggestions of what Trayvon should have done are pretty easy to make sitting at home behind a computer and as rational adults. > > Somehow if the person “acting suspiciously” had been a 14-year old white girl called Whitney I think we’d be having a slightly different conversation. I realize that this has become yet another thread about the Zimmerman-Martin case–because lord knows six threads weren’t enough–but I am a little curious which parts of the general advice summarized by **John Mace** in post 44 would be bad advice for a 14 year old white girl named Whitney. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/91 "2012-04-06T23:30:43Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I realize that this has become yet another thread about the Zimmerman-Martin case–because lord knows six threads weren’t enough–but I am a little curious which parts of the general advice summarized by **John Mace** in post 44 would be bad advice for a 14 year old white girl named Whitney. Become? You do realise it started as one, right? I didn’t realise either, to be fair. But I’m not American. In retrospect it’s obvious. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/92 "2012-04-07T02:42:56Z")
All of you advising “go to the nearest occupied house” let me ask you this: A 17 year old black boy in a hoodie (with or without grill) rings your doorbell on a dark and rainy night, excited, wet, claiming that he’s being followed by someone in a car. You’ve never seen him before, you’re pretty sure he doesn’t live nearby, you live in a gated community where someone “following” someone around seems odd, at best. Do you let him in? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/93 "2012-04-07T02:49:24Z")
[QUOTE=tumbleddown] A 17 year old black boy in a hoodie (with or without grill) rings your doorbell on a dark and rainy night, excited, wet, claiming that he’s being followed by someone in a car. You’ve never seen him before, you’re pretty sure he doesn’t live nearby, you live in a gated community where someone “following” someone around seems odd, at best. Do you let him in? [/QUOTE] I’d be as likely to ‘let him in’ (a.k.a. let him use my phone and maybe help him out) as I would a young white, asian, hispanic or Inuit kid…which is to say I’d be wary of ANY young kid in that situation, regardless of skin color, but I’d still be willing to help. My guess is most people my age would feel approximately the same…all young kids are potential threats these days, regardless of ‘race’, but I doubt that would stop many from helping out. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/94 "2012-04-07T05:31:27Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > All of you advising “go to the nearest occupied house” let me ask you this: > > A 17 year old black boy in a hoodie (with or without grill) rings your doorbell on a dark and rainy night, excited, wet, claiming that he’s being followed by someone in a car. You’ve never seen him before, you’re pretty sure he doesn’t live nearby, you live in a gated community where someone “following” someone around seems odd, at best. > > Do you let him in? Oh FFS, if adults can’t understand the reason behind going to the nearest occupied house/building how are they supposed to teach their kids? The purpose is not to be “let in.” Why go to an occupied building? The number one reason is to scare off the stalker/attacker. Most assailants are not interested in dealing with witnesses and will simply take off. Secondarily, you ask the individual to call 911 for you. Multiple calls to 911 can (sometimes) get a faster response, plus you have created further record of the incident. DON’T ask to come in or for any assistance other than asking them to call 911, people are typically very weary of anyone (regardless of race) asking to come into there home. Lastly, at the very least, you now have a witness that can testify on your behalf should there be any contention about the events. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/95 "2012-04-07T12:30:22Z")
Is there a law in Florida where one is allowed to shoot an individual one suspects is breaking into a neighbour’s house? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/96 "2012-04-07T14:16:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Actually, audio engineers have analyzed the 911 and specifically ruled that it WAS NOT Zimmerman. > > There’s only one other person than who could have been screaming for help before Trayvon Martin was shot to death. Audio engineers who somehow know exactly what Martin and Zimmerman sound like screaming for their lives? There is absolutely no reason to trust these people who are analyzing background noise in a cell phone call. The eyewitness who was ten yards away said the day after the shooting that Zimmerman was the one screaming. That is good evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/97 "2012-04-07T14:28:11Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Audio engineers who somehow know exactly what Martin and Zimmerman sound like screaming for their lives? There is absolutely no reason to trust these people who are analyzing background noise in a cell phone call. The eyewitness who was ten yards away said the day after the shooting that Zimmerman was the one screaming. That is good evidence. Did this witness, who won’t identify himself, say he was less than ten yards away? I don’t remember him saying that. Also, other witnesses, who are willing to identify themselves, say it was Martin. Finally, the engineers had recordings of Zimmerman to compare. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/98 "2012-04-07T15:17:56Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Audio engineers who somehow know exactly what Martin and Zimmerman sound like screaming for their lives? They have samples of Zimmerman’s voice from the phone calls, so yes, it’s conceivable they could although the quality of their work can be questioned. They can’t conclude that Martin was screaming because they don’t have a voice sample, but they can analyze whether or not the scream is consistent with Zimmerman’s samples. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/99 "2012-04-07T15:55:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They have samples of Zimmerman’s voice from the phone calls, so yes, it’s conceivable they could although the quality of their work can be questioned. They can’t conclude that Martin was screaming because they don’t have a voice sample, but they can analyze whether or not the scream is consistent with Zimmerman’s samples. Again: [http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/](http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/06/voice-forensics-experts-cast-doubt-on-orlando-sentinel-analysis-of-trayvon-martin-911-tape/) Voice recognition experts who spoke to The Daily Caller questioned the methodology and conclusions of a voice-identification analysis published by the Orlando Sentinel on March 31. Dr. James Wayman, a San Jose State University expert in the field of speech science, told The Daily Caller that he questions the grounds on which Owen based his analysis. Wayman also said he would be willing to testify against the admissibility of Owen’s findings on the grounds that they don’t meet the criteria required for evidence in federal courts. The problem, he said, is that the two voice samples were recorded in difficult acoustic conditions over different cell phones. “Even if we were to have Mr. Zimmerman recreate the scream under identical conditions with the same cell phone,” Wayman explained, “it would be difficult to attribute the scream to him without a sample of a similar scream from Mr. Martin under the same conditions. This is clearly not possible.” One voice authentication expert whose work is commercial in nature told TheDC that screaming, stress, and a recording’s audio quality can “wreak havoc” on voice biometric software and its ability to interpret data. And speaking of Owen’s findings, another industry insider said that “a legitimate biometrics expert would likely refute the contentions” and suggests that these were “incendiary publicity plays.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864/100 "2012-04-07T16:07:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again: Already read, already acknowledged. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-17-its-dark-and-raining-and-this-creep-is-following-me-what-should-i-do-need-answer-fast/617864.md?page=6)