# I am a college educated girl. Clearly that means I'm naive and ingorant. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 24, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088 "2003-06-24T18:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/41 "2003-06-25T00:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*It’s condescending as all get out to state, assume, or imply that an obviously intelligent person is “regurgitat[ing] what you’ve been told is true” instead of “study[ing], learn[ing] and reach[ing] your own conclusions.” \*\* **wring** also. If she didn’t post the way she does, illustrated quite nicely by \*_gobear_, then I wouldn’t have urged her to behave thus. I know plenty of “obviously intelligent” people who don’t think for themselves. I am urging Sven not to be one of them. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/42 "2003-06-25T00:59:03Z")
If she posts a lot of “My professor told me . . .” stuff, then the criticism may be warranted. I would suggest, however, to both you and gobear, that the criticism has no place apart from the context that inspires it. You can’t just wander 'round the boards and yell at **sven** to pull her head out of her ass and start thinking for herself whenever the fancy strikes. Save it for when it’s relevant, _if_ it’s relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/43 "2003-06-25T01:12:59Z")
And be ready to PROVE it’s relevant. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/44 "2003-06-25T01:49:45Z")
> [@](#): > > You can’t just wander 'round the boards and yell at sven to pull her head out of her ass and start thinking for herself whenever the fancy strikes. Save it for when it’s relevant, if it’s relevant Ahem. **Sven** posted a request to be taken seriously. I posted a rejoinder explaining why I have difficulty doing so, backed up by specific examples. I do NOT just wander “round the boards and yell at sven to pull her head out of her ass and start thinking for herself whenever the fancy strikes.” Moreover, I beleive my post to be specific in answering the OP’s question. The sad thing is that I was going to offer **Minty** a tasty Shiner Bock, but now I guess he’ll just have to drink Bud. Oh, OK, you can have a Shiner, but you’re taking the cap off yourself. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/45 "2003-06-25T02:12:14Z")
Okay, fair enough. I shouldn’t have assumed you were referring to the other thread in your comments. My bad. Now, on to the more important issue: You can get Shiner in D.C.? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/46 "2003-06-25T02:15:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Ahem. It’s “hem hem.” Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/47 "2003-06-25T02:24:25Z")
I’m still looking for Weirddave’s assumption that a “girl”+“degree”= “naive”. Gender was never an issue here, so why did this get dragged into the pit? **Sven** , college is but one chapter of a lifetime novel. Hell, I spent nine years in college and virtually became a professional student ,but all it did was make the chapter thicker than other chapters in my life. Degrees in App. Math, Comp. Sci., Geography, I was bent on getting a job at JPL or a contractor for JPL. I only had one math prof who was a bonafide left-winger (extremely rare), beads and all, pushing idealistically for social programs for every malady in the world…what a bunch of BS I thought back then. I’m just going to work for JPL or NASA… I graduated in 1990 at the cusp of the double-dip recession, with my wife and my two year old son looking on. (Did I mentioned that I worked full-time since 1982, supporting the family as well and go through college?) Interviewing for a job with a contractor, I started noticing that I didn’t like the 72 mile one-way commute to possible job. My wife has a degree in Human Development in the Psych field and wants to start a program for developmentally disabled adults. We submitted a proposal for state funded grants and got it on the first try. Damn, we’re gonna start our own business from scratch! (During a recession in California = crapshoot) Talk about naive! Guess, what…my chapter on college wasn’t finished because I was **naive** about owning and running our own business. Back to class to do Accounting, Business Law, and Management until I felt comfortable at what I was doing. My wife runs the program half of the company and I’m the financial half. Somehow we ended up having two more children added to our family. We feel greatful for the opportunities we seized, and though I didn’t jump at the opportunity to sleep on a Mayan Pyramid, I did jump on opportunities that made the business succeed and making a difference in the lives of the developmentally disabled in our neck of the woods (more like weeds here in the desert); I feel we have acheived a certain level of helping the world (in a liberal sense), although the conservative in me wins out every time when it comes to making business decisions that has kept the program running for the last 11 years. I haven’t seen someone shot, but I have seen appalling abuse of the developmentally disabled and reported such issues to authorities. I’ve seen some living in squalid conditions and help them obtain clean clothes, food and a safe place to live. $500/plate lunches don’t interest me, but spending $500 on my 145 clients to take them all out to lunch does interest me. Integrating our clients into society and contribute has been our goal (in somewhat hostile environment) since day one. Looking back, that wacko left-wing prof had an impact on me, albeit on my own terms and I am very happy with the outcome. After reading your background here (and on other threads) and offering my background here, **Sven** , you and I have only scratched the surface (although in different places) in life experiences and we all have some level of naivete no matter how many years we’ve lived thus far. I wouldn’t take **Weirddave’s** statements too critically. **COL** : Bowling on Saturdays? Nope. Golf on Saturdays? Probably. Golf (unlike bowling) is a life experience in itself, but that’s another story for another day. As for forty years in a factory, that’s one life experience I’d rather not live, even though it **is** a life experience in it’s own right. Remember, working at a factory only takes a fraction of your overall lifetime; what you do off the clock is just as important. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/48 "2003-06-25T02:39:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, on to the more important issue: You can get Shiner in D.C.? Wow. Sure. Whole Foods Grocery, $5.99/6-pack. It’s DC, dude, we get EVerything. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/49 "2003-06-25T03:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > \*\* > …snip… > Also, i don’t get this shit about ‘life experience’. What is that? working at a factory for 40 years and going bowling on saturdays? \*\* I think…once you’ve had life experience, you will know it. Life experience can’t be summed up by any random selection of events in your life, but rather by your trials and joys, your suffering and your victories. **gobear** , do you have Cheerwine in DC?? ~J ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/50 "2003-06-25T03:34:33Z")
If you understand that the leadership of the Democratic Party in the US is every bit as dishonest, manipulative, and Machiavellian as Bush et al., then you are not naive and ignorant. Just MHO of course. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/51 "2003-06-25T03:47:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > Sure. Whole Foods Grocery, $5.99/6-pack. Well that explains it. Whole Foods is from Austin. I have many fond memories of spending other people’s money (hey, it was college) in the original store along Shoal Creek. Anyway, if I’m ever in DC or you’re ever in Texas, the Shiner’s on me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cargogal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@Cargogal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cargogal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/52 "2003-06-25T04:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Finagle \* > \*\*Myself, I thought 75% of US citizens having the answer correct was pretty remarkable. > \*\* I need to read the referenced thread to see what the fuck 75% of Americans managed to get right. I thought 75% of Americans cound’t get their NAMES right. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/53 "2003-06-25T06:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > since we have posters your age or younger, like Matt\_Mcl or MichaelEllis, who are never challenged as naive, Well, actually, I _have_ been called that on these boards, and I don’t think it was particularly justified, IM naive little O. At some point, I do think it becomes an age prejudice thing. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/54 "2003-06-25T07:16:19Z")
You folks don’t think I _paid_ for that dinner, do ya? Naw, I was given a couple of extra ticket by a now disgraced politician who used to buy my tamerindo at the corner store. My best friend and I had a great time eating rubbery chicken and, well, being intimidated by a bunch of senators. Ahh, to be sixteen again… Um gee, thanks for the support. I guess I was a bit harsh. I do know I havn’t seen it all, and I certainly hope that I gain more insight and knowledge as I get older. It just really bugs me when people talk down to me, because I really am pretty darn informed. My ideas may not always gel quite right, and I’m still testing a lot of them out. But I’ve seen the types of sheltered idealist college students that your talking about, and I’m sure as hell not one of them. Although I think, until I stop wearing make-up that includes glitter in it on a regular basis, I’ll always be a girl =). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/55 "2003-06-25T07:21:54Z")
Make that “used to buy me tamerindo”…changes the story a bit. Those really were fun, crazy times and I really was too young to know just how fun and crazy they were. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/56 "2003-06-25T07:43:36Z")
Just curious, a question for **wring** , **Minty** and others who have come down on me for my statements to **sven** : Would y’all have been so quick to condem if I had directed my “study, learn and think critically” comments at **december**? Like I said, I’m just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/57 "2003-06-25T09:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Just curious, a question for **wring** , **Minty** and others who have come down on me for my statements to **sven** : Would y’all have been so quick to condem if I had directed my “study, learn and think critically” comments at **december**? Like I said, I’m just curious. \*\* Well, if you had told **december** to “absolutely forget everything that the (generally) enormously liberal facualty from college indoctrinated you with and go out and study on your own”, I for one would be… I don’t know? Impressed? Confused? Giggling insanely? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/58 "2003-06-25T14:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Just curious, a question for **wring** , **Minty** and others who have come down on me for my statements to **sven** : Would y’all have been so quick to condem if I had directed my “study, learn and think critically” comments at **december**? Like I said, I’m just curious. \*\* what I saw was framed in the “you just graduated from college” framework, and the cited comments were, IMHO, condescending in nature since they made the assumption (which wasn’t backed up that I could see) that the person involved wasn’t critically thinking. FME, when folks have criticized **december** for not thinking critically, they’ve displayed the examples such as “you reject this data from a news source and cite as your support, an op/ed piece from [conservativesrus.com](http://conservativesrus.com) ?” sort of thing, IOW, linking the specific example of lack of critical thinking skills, and /or demonstrating that his analysis is faulty etc. Yes, she refers to stuff that she’d recently heard from profs and the like. but that doesn’t mean that she hasn’t thought about it. attack her argument ya know? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/59 "2003-06-25T14:54:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > Would y’all have been so quick to condem if I had directed my “study, learn and think critically” comments at **december**? Like I said, I’m just curious. Context is everything, amigo. If you did that to **december** when he was engaging in one of his frequent bouts of megadittoing some columnist or blog, I’d have no complaint. If you did it on one of the occasions where was speaking for himself without any sign of regurgitation, it would have been inappropriate and I might well have called you on it. I have defended **december** from unwarranted attacks on more than one occasion, though my overall take on him is one of extreme ambivalence. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088/60 "2003-06-25T14:55:40Z")
Just MHO, but it would seem that accusations of simply regurgitating the positions of others with minimal critical thinking on the subject would apply far more fairly to **december**. In such a case I’d probably feel they were simple fact and not a generalization. As **minty** noted, **sven** doesn’t frequently say things like “my professor said” or other indications that she’s simply toeing some party line, while **december** has posted hundreds of “well this guy says this” types of posts. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-college-educated-girl-clearly-that-means-im-naive-and-ingorant/184088.md?page=4)