# I am a dumbass! **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 8, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330 "2012-11-08T04:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/41 "2012-11-08T14:47:57Z")
Can you explain this further? Are you saying that Republican unpopularity with Hispanics in the entire US is due (in significant part) to this local issue involving Hispanic non-immigrants in New Mexico? That seems highly unlikely to me, to say the least. (Perhaps you mean this as an example of something which has broader application.) ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/42 "2012-11-08T15:01:42Z")
> [@Ta-nehisi Coates as quoted by Measure for Measure](#): > > I am hearing a great deal of talk about “appealing to Hispanics” and “appealing to women.” But I am not hearing much about _endorsing actual policies_. What happened last night is not a matter of cosmetics. This is not false consciousness. This a real response to real policies. Mitt Romney actually endorsed Arizona’s immigration policies. You can’t fix this by flashing more pictures of brown people. > > This is not a “branding problem.” This is a “problem problem.” Latino voters didn’t go crazy. Latino voters went voter. [/INDENT] What a way with words. But I think the Republicans have another cycle or two to regain ground in Hispanic votes. The deal is, in the 1960s, they didn’t just lose blacks, they went out of their way to appeal to racist whites. They are trying _very_ hard to piss off Latinos in the same way with regards to immigration. But as others in the thread have pointed out, 2012 Hispanics don’t have nearly as homogenous a background as 1968 Blacks. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/43 "2012-11-08T15:10:27Z")
Boys and girls, Klaatu came here to acknowledge his being wrong, something too few have the gonads to do in this world. He was asked a question about his thoughts. Can’t you even in a moment of victory just step back and hear thoughts you disagree with in the spirit of trying to understand a POV you very much disagree with, without needing to attack it? I disagree with that POV too, but Klaatu is not evil for having it. We have different ideas of what “really needs it” is, perhaps. BTW, I am also 53 and raised in the same era with the same beliefs about only taking help if you really need it; I just perceive the GOP as not wanting to help those who DO really need it. Our having different takes does not make either of us evil. Or stupid. I do feel that voters like Klaatu have been _manipulated by_ the 0.01% to get the impressions they have. Attacking him for the effectiveness of their machinations will not undo how effective they are. One can hope that his realizing his information sources have been … flawed … in one sense, will enable him to question their worth for other impressions he holds. Somehow though I doubt attacking his honestly held beliefs is going to make that more likely. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/44 "2012-11-08T15:16:31Z")
Hell, on review I’m deleting my post because **DSeid** just said it better. Differences aside, good call to come in and man up, **Klattu**. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/45 "2012-11-08T15:34:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Can’t you even in a moment of victory just step back and hear thoughts you disagree with in the spirit of trying to understand a POV you very much disagree with, without needing to attack it? “Wow, I acknowledge that the poll overwhelmingly says 2 + 2 = 4! I acknowledge my defeat and that I was wrong to assume 2 + 2 = 5 would win overwhelmingly. I guess math just isn’t that important to many of you!” Yeah, no, I have no real guilt about not accepting something like that. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/46 "2012-11-08T15:53:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree with the posters here who say the main issue is immigration reform. I’m surprised to hear that US Hispanics dislike the “wets”, but even if they do, they probably identify with what’s perceived as attacks on them, and consider that they represent at some level a dislike of Hispanics. Speaking of attacks, conservatives would probably do better to avoid throwing around racial slurs so randomly. Human beings would also probably to better to avoid throwing around racial slurs so randomly. Even if they use quote marks. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/47 "2012-11-08T15:57:34Z")
Okay. Your take is to say that anyone who believed something different than you is an idiot. Good luck with that as an effective way to make an impact. Reality is that a large number of people who are far from idiots believed those “oversampling” memes. Likewise they believe a fair amount to other stuff that is being actively sold to them. The 0.01% (not the 1%, but that very narrow sliver above that) has a very effective machine selling those ideas because it serves their interests. Those so sold are not the enemy. They are however apparently 48% of likely voters. Understanding how they get so sold might just help “my” side learn how to reach a few of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/48 "2012-11-08T16:01:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay. Your take is to say that anyone who believed something different than you is an idiot. It isn’t that exactly, it’s the implicit insult. “Gosh, I fully admit I was wrong to think there aren’t that many of you who really are that dumb.” Sorry, no. If the other side isn’t going to start from a position of “just having different opinions”, I have no inclination to extend the favor myself. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/49 "2012-11-08T16:03:26Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Okay. Your take is to say that anyone who believed something different than you is an idiot. Good luck with that as an effective way to make an impact. > > Reality is that a large number of people who are far from idiots believed those “oversampling” memes. Likewise they believe a fair amount to other stuff that is being actively sold to them. The 0.01% (not the 1%, but that very narrow sliver above that) has a very effective machine selling those ideas because it serves their interests. Those so sold are not the enemy. They are however apparently 48% of likely voters. Understanding how they get so sold might just help “my” side learn how to reach a few of them. Getting a huge multi-national media magnate to set you up a series of TV Channels that pay no regard to neither truth nor decency in ruthlessly promulgating your cause would be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/50 "2012-11-08T16:15:12Z")
Props for manning up, **Klaatu**. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/51 "2012-11-08T16:19:39Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Speaking of attacks, conservatives would probably do better to avoid throwing around racial slurs so randomly. Human beings would also probably to better to avoid throwing around racial slurs so randomly. Even if they use quote marks. I used quote marks because I was quoting someone. And he, in turn, was quoting someone else. Please try to pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/52 "2012-11-08T16:38:50Z")
You quoted this post by **drewtwo** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15675130#post15675130](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15675130#post15675130) which does not use the racial slur. You may have chosen to quote **Klaatu** , who did use that slur earlier in the thread, but since the slur is _the only word you quoted_, you could easily have chosen to use a different word. Your defense of using a racial slur is less than impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/53 "2012-11-08T16:45:26Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > You quoted this post by **drewtwo** : > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15675130#post15675130](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15675130#post15675130) > > which does not use the racial slur. > > You may have chosen to quote **Klaatu** , who did use that slur earlier in the thread, but since the slur is _the only word you quoted_, you could easily have chosen to use a different word. I was commenting on and referring to the statement in Klaatu’s post, so I used the term he quoted. > [@](#): > > Your defense of using a racial slur is less than impressive. Truth is that with one thing and another I’m not much up on racial slurs these days, and “wets” doesn’t sound like much of a racial slur, as racial slurs go. It sounds to me much like a contemporary Hispanic-oriented version of “greenhorn”, i.e. a recently arrived immigrant, versus a longer term immigrant. But no difference, anyway. If you’re not impressed I can live with that too. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/54 "2012-11-08T16:52:54Z")
> **[Wetback (slur)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetback_%28slur%29)** > > Wetback is a derogatory term used in the United States to refer to foreign nationals residing in the U.S., most commonly Mexicans. The word mostly targets illegal immigrants in the United States. Generally used as an ethnic slur, the term was originally coined and applied only to Mexicans who entered the U.S. state of Texas from Mexico by crossing the Rio Grande, which is the U.S. border, presumably by swimming or wading across the river and getting wet, i.e. getting their back wet, in the The... > [@](#): > > p to: navigation, search > > “Wetback” is a derogatory term used in the United States for a person of foreign nationality, historically a Mexican citizen, who is an illegal immigrant in the U.S.[1] ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/55 "2012-11-08T17:10:20Z")
Your quote doesn’t contradict what I said. I understand that it’s derogatory, and that’s in fact the context in which it was being used by Klaatu’s colleague. Question is whether it’s racial. My impression (FWIW) is that it’s not, and just means “greenhorn”, but it happens that due to the nature of Mexican immigration the term “wetback” conjures up an image of a recent immigrant who just swam across the river, while for another ethnic group this term would not carry that same connotation. (I see that Wiki says “ethnic slur”, but I don’t know if this correct, or even if they were being precise.) But again, no difference. I don’t think this is of any consequence. As above, I was quoting a quote from another poster. If you want to carry on about this, be my guest. You can even form a support group with certain other posters here. I don’t intend to keep arguing about this. ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/56 "2012-11-08T17:12:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Your quote doesn’t contradict what I said. I understand that it’s derogatory, and that’s in fact the context in which it was being used by Klaatu’s colleague. Question is whether it’s racial. My impression (FWIW) is that it’s not, and just means “greenhorn”, but it happens that due to the nature of Mexican immigration the term “wetback” conjures up an image of a recent immigrant who just swam across the river, while for another ethnic group this term would not carry that same connotation. (I see that Wiki says “ethnic slur”, but I don’t know if this correct, or even if they were being precise.) I’m reminded of this clip from _Clerks_: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdVwt2deY4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWdVwt2deY4) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/57 "2012-11-08T17:38:29Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > I don’t think Obama is evil, I think he has a different idea of the role of gov than I do. I am 53 and was brought up that it’s almost shameful to be on the gov dole unless you really needed it. > > Might sound strange to younger folks. I just get this vague impression that Obama almost feels the need to have people on gov programs, whether they need it or not. But that’s for great debates, I won’t debate it here. I don’t see it that way at all. For 8 years the Republicans ran up the government “credit card” on the governmental equivalent of hookers and blow. They spent billions on unnecessary wars that they claimed would pay for themselves. They gave back tons of tax dollars to people that didn’t really need a tax break. While this was happening, there was an organized scam being run to replace the hard dollars and treasury bonds that were collected from hard working Americans ( through retirement savings and state and local taxes) with the financial equivalent of magic beans. This was enhanced by the same relaxed regulatory environment that allowed Bernie Maddoff to get away with years of blantant fraud. Then when everything exploded and we NEEDED that credit line to replace the blown engine of the economy, it was maxed out but there was really very little choice but to increase the limit and run it up higher, not to do so would’ve been totally devastating. Unemployment soared and more people needed temporary help. This also made it harder for more marginal potential employees to find work. Back in early 2008 I was HARD on my brother , who has marginal job skills and a criminal record, to find some sort of work. After the crash I realized that the small number of jobs he was qualified for were being taken by out of work executives and I came to realize he was unemployable in the current market and I went from criticizing his efforts to get government aid to supporting them. I think the Dems were guilty of downplaying the severity of the financial crisis in order not to completely crash consumer confidence. I can’t say I blame them but it hurt them when it came to justifying spending, 5 years ago I used to consider myself a fiscal conservative but a social liberal, now I’m a fairly solid progressive. However I think it’s the world that has changed as much as I have. And thanks for manning up. I respect that. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/58 "2012-11-08T18:43:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Props for manning up, **Klaatu**. I concur. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/59 "2012-11-08T22:54:15Z")
> [@Klaatu](#): > > I don’t think Obama is evil, I think he has a different idea of the role of gov than I do. I am 53 and was brought up that it’s almost shameful to be on the gov dole unless you really needed it. > > Might sound strange to younger folks. I just get this vague impression that Obama almost feels the need to have people on gov programs, whether they need it or not. But that’s for great debates, I won’t debate it here. > > But regarding the 70% or so of Hispanics/Latinos who voted for him. I live in New Mexico and work with quite a few Hispanics, as they prefer to be called here. (Or self-identify as Vatos, as we say at work 🙂 > > They invariably vote Dem. I asked my buddy today: "So you voted for Obama? “Yep” > > I said “But you are a conservative and don’t realize it” “You are a pro-life Catholic. Check. You have a lot of guns and have bitched about the gov taking your guns. Check. are you for gay marriage? No (never met a Hispanic here for it) Immigration? No we don’t want those wets here.” On and on. > > So, should the Pubs focus on the Latinos? Anyway, just a local data point… > > I would have liked to seen Rubio run as VP. I fell the same way but I don’t feel that universal health care is the dole any more than I feel that free public education is the dole. I agree, hispanics line up very well with republicanson almost every issue except racism against Hispanics, Hispanics are really against that. Romney lost a HUGE opportunnity by not going with Rubio in his effort to appeal to “the base” If Romney had picked Rubio, Hispanic churches would have had souls to the poll sunday in every state. I don’t know if it would have made a difference but Rubio would have been MUCH better than Ryan. In fact if Romney had just gotten rid of his handlers who tried to make him look ultra conservative (when NOONE believed he was ultra-conservative), he would have done better. > [@Knorf](#): > > I concur. Yeah, good for you Klaatu. I always said we have the best conservatives on the web. SDMB is like Salusa Secondus for conservative posters, only the strong survive.[Organizations of the Dune universe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salusa_Secundus)[Organizations of the Dune universe - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardaukar) ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330/60 "2012-11-08T22:57:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > (when NOONE believed he was ultra-conservative), Hey, I happen to know Peggy Noone, and she didn’t believe any such thing! 🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-dumbass/640330.md?page=4)