# I am a multiple felon: the overcriminalization of America **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342 "2006-02-13T21:52:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/101 "2006-02-18T00:59:19Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > I was about to howl with indignation until I got to the punch line…I would merely add that the five people who have successfully suppressed illegally obtained evidence (approximatly 1/10 of 1% of all illegally obtained evidence) did so after undergoing serious detriment in the form of bail premium or months of incarceration, etc. > > Plus, they don’t give you back the drugs, anyway. Depends on how much premium you pay on the bail, and to whom. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/102 "2006-02-18T01:53:17Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > Depends on how much premium you pay on the bail, and to whom. but they didn’t give me ba… There are detriments besides the bail… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/103 "2006-02-18T02:06:06Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Now, I know your probably using hyperbole here, but do you have any credible cite to back up any part of your outlandish statement? actually, I had a hyperbole disclaimer in my first post that got eaten by the net. I can’t cite studies, which would be virtually impossible to do, since it would involve going around and following up on) the vast amount of illegally obtained evidence which never becomes the subject of a motion to suppress because of resource limitations on the defense side. The best index is to be found by parsing the transcripts of unsuccessful motion hearings, and marvelling at the bullshit stories that are routinely swallowed by judges ruling the sai evidence in. (vide, inter alia, the excuse given by the OJ dectectives for their warrantless vault of the wall surrounding his estate which led to the recovery of the glove that did not fit…) Once you see what judges WILL pretend to believe, you will get a sense for the lenient parameters of verisimilitude which constrain (barely) the imagination of arrestin officers. I believe Dersh (who I detest for other reasons) has touched on the question tangentially in his formultioh “testilying”, Results 1 - 10 of about 238 for Dershowitz Testilying. (0.62 seconds) Dershowitz: Testilying, December 1, 1998 My name is Alan M. Dershowitz and I have been teaching criminal law at Harvard Law … 363, 367 (1972), quoted in Christopher Slobogin, Testilying: Police … [www.constitution.org/lrev/dershowitz\_test\_981201.htm](http://www.constitution.org/lrev/dershowitz_test_981201.htm) - 20k - Cached - Similar pages Christopher Slobogin, Testilying: Police Perjury and What to Do … Part I of this article describes the nature and causes of testilying in more … Of course, there is Alan Dershowitz’s well-known assertion (made long … [www.constitution.org/lrev/slobogin\_testilying.htm](http://www.constitution.org/lrev/slobogin_testilying.htm) - 66k - Cached - Similar pageshttp://www.google.com/search? client=opera&rls=en&q=Dershowitz+Testilying&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 More to the point, just ask Bricker–no friend of the left he, (altho we live in hope; it appears that a nutritional deficiency (insufficient consumption of ergot) may lie at the root of his dementia, and he may yet be rescued from the slough of despond in which he finds himself.) I intend to organize an intervention as soon as I can acquire the necessaries, which have become sadly difficult to find, even in the halcyon climes of Freedonia (aka Baghdad by the Bay) ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/104 "2006-02-18T06:28:12Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > it appears that a nutritional deficiency (insufficient consumption of ergot) Yow! I don’t know when you became a Democrat, but when I did there was certainly no ergot or byproducts thereof involved. I don’t think solving this particular deficiency in **Bricker** ’s diet will help anyone. Far out, man! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/105 "2006-02-18T09:34:56Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > More to the point, just ask Bricker–no friend of the left he, (altho we live in hope; it appears that a nutritional deficiency (insufficient consumption of ergot) may lie at the root of his dementia, and he may yet be rescued from the slough of despond in which he finds himself.) I intend to organize an intervention as soon as I can acquire the necessaries, which have become sadly difficult to find, even in the halcyon climes of Freedonia (aka Baghdad by the Bay) Confirming what I’ve suspected all along… you have to be on 'shrooms to be a Democrat. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/106 "2006-02-18T11:04:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Confirming what I’ve suspected all along… you have to be on 'shrooms to be a Democrat. > > 😛 actually,\* mushrooms are in realtively plentiful supply–it is the distilled lysergic fruit of the ergotized grain which has been driven underground. Parenthetically, the sainted . Albert Hoffman, to whom I owe my very life, still walks the earth at the age of 100, proving that good deeds preserve the holy. THE SATURDAY PROFILE; Nearly 100, LSD’s Father Ponders His ‘Problem Child’ By CRAIG S. SMITH Published: January 7, 2006 [http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:a-8IXDz7K2YJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9505E3DB153FF934A35752C0A9609C8B63+albert+hoffman&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=opera](http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:a-8IXDz7K2YJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D9505E3DB153FF934A35752C0A9609C8B63+albert+hoffman&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7&client=opera) (\*oddly ,( or perhaps not oddly), I seem to catch a lot more pussy when mushrooms have, so to speak, taken the rough edges off my personality) It isn’t easy being barbaric…, as Kermit the Frog used to say, or something like that…) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/107 "2006-02-18T11:13:52Z")
" became a Democrat," " you have to be on 'shrooms to be a Democrat." Not to disappoint, but I did say “left”. Democrats are the left only by comparison to the screamingravingloonies of america, aka repugnacans. I am seriously left, not democratic party left. The last democrat I had any real use for died like a dog on the kitchen floor of the ambassador hotel, and with him the last best hope of the world died too. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/108 "2006-02-18T13:03:40Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > actually, I had a hyperbole disclaimer in my first post that got eaten by the net Good enough. As long as you acknowledge the inaccuracy in your statements, I’m fine. I have no desire to wade through your cut and paste crap, irrelevant cites, and senseless rambling. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/109 "2006-02-18T13:08:46Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Good enough. As long as you acknowledge the inaccuracy in your statements, I’m fine. I have no desire to wade through your cut and paste crap, irrelevant cites, and senseless rambling. right then, we both have what we want… ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/110 "2006-02-19T19:45:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How often does this happen? Reading your poses, it would seem the streets are awash in currency, and people are pocketing it left and right without reporting it, knowing their actions are criminal. I’m saying that’s it’s not so… I’m guessing that “knowing their actions are criminal” is the operative factor. My girlfriend, an MD with a complex consulting business and very possibly the most ethical creature on the planet, is a coin magnet anytime we’re walking down the street. Lucky pennies everywhere she looks, and often dimes and quarters. She saves receipts on every transaction, logs every trip in her car, and is meticulous with her billing and income recordkeeping. But I’m sure she omits the currency she collects from the street. Criminal? ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/111 "2006-02-19T19:48:34Z")
Strike that last post. Sorry, failed to finish reading the thread… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/112 "2006-02-19T20:00:16Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > I’m guessing that “knowing their actions are criminal” is the operative factor. My girlfriend, an MD with a complex consulting business and very possibly the most ethical creature on the planet, is a coin magnet anytime we’re walking down the street. Lucky pennies everywhere she looks, and often dimes and quarters. > > She saves receipts on every transaction, logs every trip in her car, and is meticulous with her billing and income recordkeeping. But I’m sure she omits the currency she collects from the street. > > Criminal? I doubt it. How much currency, in total, does she find in a year? ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/113 "2006-02-20T03:37:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How often does this happen? Reading your poses, it would seem the streets are awash in currency, and people are pocketing it left and right without reporting it, knowing their actions are criminal. I’m saying that’s it’s not so… and to your udnerlying point, I’m saying there is not a “vast morass” of law that people violate every day. Every time someone makes a similar claim, I challenge them to provide specifics. About the only case that meets this criteria are motor vehicle laws. I grant that most of us violate the motor vehicle code repeatedly on a daily basis… but those are not crimes. Thanks for these comments. I have always believed like the OP-everyone breaks the law every day just by living a normal life. The law has become so complicated that it just seemed reasonable. Your challenge to that assumption has made me think there might be another explanation-that people don’t break the law just by existing. A novel thought. Now I still suspect that my original belief is accurate, but I have to come up with some examples before I can make the claim. I’m thinking… ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/114 "2006-02-20T20:47:01Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Isn’t there a Catholic sin called ‘excessive scrupulosity’? > > Of course, that brings in the whole question of Church law, starting with which church, if any, do you belong to… Well, scrupulosity is being compulsively obsessed with the various guidelines of the church or other institution you may be part of. It is more common in people who are OCD in general, and are part of a church with more guidelines, such as Catholicism or Orthodox Judaism. For example, a scrupulous Catholic may go to Confession many times a week because they didn’t do it exactly right, or to absolve themselves of perceived offenses which they are obsessing over. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342/115 "2006-02-21T02:10:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I doubt it. How much currency, in total, does she find in a year? I could make an estimate, but ignorance might be prudent, eh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-multiple-felon-the-overcriminalization-of-america/344342.md?page=5)