# I am a Patriots hater, and I rank the Patriots the most impressive dynasty **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 6, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322 "2016-04-06T06:10:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/41 "2016-04-17T18:54:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The facts say otherwise, as you by now know well. I just laid out facts. You are, as you have always done, free to ignore it, rely on unsupported “everyone is doing it” allegations, and to fling insults rather than deal with the actual facts. But since I’ve gone over this with you before and have now realized the futility of ever trying to engage with you, I’ll likely just leave you to your ramblings, unless something amuses me enough to respond. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/42 "2016-04-17T19:22:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [This site](http://yourteamcheats.com/) is a pretty comprehensive team-by-team refutation of that claim. Well worth a browse. Looked at that when it went around the first time. Wasn’t compelling then, either. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/43 "2016-04-17T20:03:39Z")
Believe what you want, then; it’s only sports. Just be cautious about calling it Truth, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/44 "2016-04-17T20:16:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Believe what you want, then; it’s only sports. Just be cautious about calling it Truth, though. The truth is: “Since 1980, only ten NFL teams have been docked a draft pick for breaking NFL rules. Only one team has had that happen on three different occassions. Only one team has forfeited a first round draft pick for transgressions. And it happened twice to them.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/45 "2016-04-17T20:46:28Z")
Are you \*really \*missing the point or just pretending to? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/46 "2016-04-21T02:47:18Z")
> [@FreshMeat49FusterCluck](#): > > You guys are aware it isn’t actually illegal to tape practices, they just have to do it in designated areas, and as far as deflating the footballs, have you noticed Goodell measured balls all last year? You’re never gonna hear or see the results because ever team skews it someway. Every team cheats, look at Casper and Rice putting sticker on their hands, or how about Bradshaw staying I the game after getting a concussion. **Every team cheats, it professional ball, if you’re not cheating you’re not trying hard enough**. “We cheated, but so did everyone else” is a weak defense. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2016, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/47 "2016-04-21T11:05:31Z")
It does invalidate the claim that “they win because they cheat so much more”. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/48 "2016-04-26T03:53:01Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > On first glance I do find the weak division argument compelling, but I don’t put any stock in the notion that they’d somehow struggle if they played in the AFC North. Tom Brady as a starter is 21-5 vs the AFC North: > > Further, Tom Brady [does better against](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/splits/) the AFC North than the AFC East: > > 21-5 (81%) vs the AFC North > 5-1 (83%) vs the Ravens > 5-1 (83%) vs the Bengals > 5-1 (83%) vs the Browns > 6-2 (75%) vs the Steelers > > 65-19 (77%) vs the AFC East > 25-3 (89%) vs the Bills > 21-7 (75%) vs the Jets > 19-9 (68%) vs the Dolphins The Patriots have not had to play the teams in the AFCN (or any other division but their own) at the same rate as their own division (obviously). So I don’t think the stats you show matter much. They have OWNED their division for 15 years. The 3 teams that they have to fight through to get a playoff birth have all been terrible for a very long time. I have no idea how they would have stacked up against the AFC-N over the same time period. I think it is safe to say that 1) they would have been a tough game for everyone except the Browns and 2) they would have had a harder time getting into the playoffs with a more competitive division. At the very least, they would have had to work harder for that division crown (and first round bye) which is a huge advantage for the Patriots. Again, not their fault for being in a crappy division, but I think if they had to fight the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals 6 times a year, they would have a much more difficult road to the playoffs. Has any team (except the Patriots) had a 6-0 in-division record over the last 15 years in the AFC-E? > [@Deeg](#): > > That’s not true. The Jets were busted a few years ago for messing with the kicking balls (which almost certainly had a bigger impact on the game than anything Brady might have done) and then fined for tampering with Darrelle Revis. Indianapolis (I think) was busted for illegally texting the head coach during the game. Minnesota was caught warming their footballs during a game. A couple of teams have been sanctioned for piping in music. Aaron Rogers admitted to over-inflating the footballs. > > Then of course there was Jerry Rice who admitted to using illegal Stick-Em throughout his career (and then proving he was a putz by blasting the Patriots). This is pathetic. Your examples, which I think you are trying to use as an apples to apples cheating comparison, don’t come close. Especially the Rice-stick-em nonsense. The gloves receivers use today are like suction cups. OBJr (and the rest) can grab balls like an octopus with the technology today. The Patriots, like it or not, have been publically busted cheating twice under the Belichick/Kraft/Brady crew. God only knows how much other crap has gone unreported, but to lose multiple draft picks is no small penalty. And the NFL will most likely prevail the Brady decision on appeal if they decide to ride it to the end. Not sure if it will have any impact on Tommy, since he will probably be retired by the time it winds through the appeals process, but the fact remains… The Pats got busted for cheating and have lost multiple draft picks and a lot of money. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/49 "2016-04-26T04:33:27Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Again, not their fault for being in a crappy division, but I think if they had to fight the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals 6 times a year, they would have a much more difficult road to the playoffs. I don’t see how you can possibly come to that conclusion when the Patriots had a **better** record against the AFCN than the AFCE. > [@crypto](#): > > This is pathetic. Your examples, which I think you are trying to use as an apples to apples cheating comparison, don’t come close. Especially the Rice-stick-em nonsense. The gloves receivers use today are like suction cups. OBJr (and the rest) can grab balls like an octopus with the technology today. _shrug_ Using Stick’em was against the rules at the time and using it gave the receiver a much bigger advantage over receivers who didn’t use it. A much bigger advantage than slightly deflated footballs\* . So if you’re going to knock Brady for deflating footballs you have to knock Rice for using Stick’em. (\* - for the record I don’t believe the evidence shows that the Patriots purposefully deflated the footballs.) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/50 "2016-04-26T04:44:47Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > This is pathetic. Your examples, which I think you are trying to use as an apples to apples cheating comparison, don’t come close. No, the Jets offense was the exact same: doctoring balls. And nobody cared. Nobody ever cared about doctoring balls as “cheating” until the Patriots. And given that Tom Brady is 21-5 against the AFC North, I think it’s a safe bet that the Patriots would have steamrolled the AFC North just as easily as the AFC East, even if they switched spots with the Browns. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2016, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/51 "2016-04-26T11:41:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > No, the Jets offense was the exact same: doctoring balls. And nobody cared. Nobody ever cared about doctoring balls as “cheating” until the Patriots. The national media is based in New York. Just like this court. Shrug. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/52 "2016-04-29T03:16:29Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > And given that Tom Brady is 21-5 against the AFC North, I think it’s a safe bet that the Patriots would have steamrolled the AFC North just as easily as the AFC East, even if they switched spots with the Browns. You may be right, but I disagree. In-division games are always the hardest, because the rivalries are there and the intensity is racheted up. No question Brady had a great record against the AFC-N. But IMO, the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals beat the crap out of each other for 6 games (the Browns are usually dogs for everyone). The Patriots may go 4-2 in the AFC-N or 2-4. But even if they would go 6-0, the team would take a much bigger beating than the one they take in the AFC-E. Health is a huge advantage for a football team, and the Pats have not had the physical abuse that most teams experience in-division. Sorry, but that division has just been terrible. The Pats have not had a real multi-year rivalry with any of those teams. Look at the Steelers-Ravens rivalry. Most NFL fans watch that game just because those two teams kill each other. Injuries sufferend in those games don’t help come playoff time. Ah, it doesn’t matter. And Tommy Boy had his suspension reinstated. So, no matter what, all is good. He will always be remembere for the cheater he is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/53 "2016-04-29T11:24:39Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > In-division games are always the hardest, because the rivalries are there and the intensity is racheted up. No question Brady had a great record against the AFC-N. But IMO, the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals beat the crap out of each other for 6 games (the Browns are usually dogs for everyone). Those three teams always know they have a chance to win, having beaten each other so often over recent years. But the other AFC-E teams go into Pats games with mental blocks, no confidence but only dread, and it shows in their performances, which carry into other games as well. It is not a coincidence that they’ve all been so bad at the same time the Pats have been so good - the Pats have made them that way. Yes, you can name other top performers in any other sport, team or individual, who actually make their opponents worse. > [@](#): > > And Tommy Boy had his suspension reinstated. So, no matter what, all is good. Remind me again which team you cheer for that is going to be playing golf in January. Again. > [@](#): > > He will always be remembere for the cheater he is. In certain quarters, yes, he will be. Among those with a respect for fact, however, no, he won’t. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322/54 "2016-04-29T12:15:15Z")
> [@crypto](#): > > Sorry, but [the AFC East] has just been terrible. I think this was pointed out upthread, so apologies if this is repeating things, but the AFC East as a division is better than the AFC North. Against the rest of the league (removing division games entirely): AFC East 2015: 24-16 (60%) 2014: 21-19 (53%) 2013: 22-18 (55%) Past 3 years: 67-53 (56%) AFC North 2015: 18-22 (45%) 2014: 26-13-1 (66%) 2013: 19-21 (48%) Past 3 years: 63-56-1 (53%) If your premise is correct, that the rest of the AFC East is a bunch of worthless lumps compared to the AFC North, then the Patriots must be vastly superior to the entire AFC North by virtue of single-handedly besting their combined win totals against the rest of the league. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-patriots-hater-and-i-rank-the-patriots-the-most-impressive-dynasty/751322.md?page=2)