# I am a proud middle of the roader and damn proud of it **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 12, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316 "2019-11-12T04:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/61 "2019-11-12T19:46:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Well, somebody put a racist authoritarian in the White House. Wasn’t me or any of my fellow Democrats. … You might want to reconsider making such sweeping claims. According to [exit polls](https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls), President Trump got votes from something like 8% of dems. He would not have won without those dem votes. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/62 "2019-11-12T20:01:48Z")
So, you’re cool with the “authoritarian racist” part, but want to quibble about “no Democrats”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/63 "2019-11-12T20:04:17Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I have no idea why you’re white-knighting that poster. … I don’t even know which poster you think I’m “white-knighting” for. My point was that “it’s not in the platform” is a poor defense. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Anyway, do you think the Democratic Party’s emphasis is anti-white male? … I don’t think it’s a universal attitude among Democrats, but there’s definitely a noticeable streak of it. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Do you think it has been taken over by leftists? … Yes. > [@RitterSport](#): > > … Anyway, I didn’t just ask for a cite from the platform, I also mentioned any prominent Democrat. Did you seen where I wrote “elected Democrats”? … > > … > > Why did you ignore my part about “elected Democrats” to focus exclusively on the platform? … I was quoting from and responding to your earlier post (#11) that didn’t mention “elected Democrats”. I missed your later post (#31, a few minutes before mine) that did say this, and didn’t notice it until I read this and went back to find where you had said that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/64 "2019-11-12T20:05:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, you’re cool with the “authoritarian racist” part, but want to quibble about “no Democrats”? I disagree, but that’s an opinion, and he’s free to hold it. “Wasn’t me or any of my fellow Democrats” is a claim of a factual nature, and factually wrong. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/65 "2019-11-12T20:07:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > … > > I don’t think it’s a universal attitude among Democrats, but there’s definitely a noticeable streak of it. > > … Show me where you are noticing this… ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/66 "2019-11-12T20:10:55Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Criticism of black people are not racist. They are human like everyone else. Just because you are black doesn’t mean that you are immune from criticism. That’s not racist. Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name and it is the truth. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Criticizing Antonio Brown might not be racist. > > Saying “Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name” is racist. > > The idea that an individual’s behavior reflects on an entire minority group is racist. The idea that “[_insert ethnicity here_] people” can collectively _have_ a “bad name” is pretty problematic all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/67 "2019-11-12T20:16:26Z")
double post ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/68 "2019-11-12T20:17:30Z")
You’re proud . . . of being - - proud? Huh. Ummm, okay, I guess. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/69 "2019-11-12T20:19:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I disagree, but that’s an opinion, and he’s free to hold it. “Wasn’t me or any of my fellow Democrats” is a claim of a factual nature, and factually wrong. I stand corrected. I should have said, “fellow liberals”. That’s more accurate because I have never registered to be officially affiliated with any political party so in the strictest sense, I have no “fellow Democrats”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/70 "2019-11-12T20:19:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Universal health care; cheaper prescription drugs; better environment; higher minimum wage for your kids when they get jobs; better labor rights and protections; free or lower-cost college for your kids (depending on which candidate); more robust social safety net if things go wrong for you; and a lot more. There are tons of things in the Democratic party platform that are meant to help pretty much everyone aside from the very rich (and even some things, like environmental policies, that are meant to benefit everyone, including the very rich). Sure, but a lot of that stuff isn’t quite so… pressing if you’re not at the edges. I mean, universal health care is a good thing, and so is higher minimum wages, but honestly, they’re not high on my list. I mean, I have good health insurance and make more than several multiples of the minimum wage. Lower cost/free college is good, but it seems to be a distant priority behind all the other stuff like UHC, playing Robin Hood, focusing on gun control and other stuff that doesn’t much affect me. Don’t get me wrong- I’m not voting Republican, and haven’t for several elections now. But it’s much more a situation of the GOP going off the rails and becoming ignorant, hateful and just flat-out stupid, than it’s some sort of situation where the Democratic party’s platform or candidates really entice me. If anything, the more insane ones like Sanders or Warren repel me more than anything else. But they repel me far less than Trump, or morons like Matt Goetz, Louie Gohmert, or to use a more local example, Briscoe Cain. I really don’t like the idea that I should have to both choose sides, and go all-in on one party or the other’s agenda. Just because I’m voting Democrat doesn’t mean that I think they’re wonderful- far from it. It’s that the GOP has gotten so godawful lately that I can’t vote for them in good conscience or as a rationally thinking person. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/71 "2019-11-12T20:28:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but a lot of that stuff isn’t quite so… pressing if you’re not at the edges. I mean, universal health care is a good thing, and so is higher minimum wages, but honestly, they’re not high on my list. I mean, I have good health insurance and make more than several multiples of the minimum wage. Lower cost/free college is good, but it seems to be a distant priority behind all the other stuff like UHC, playing Robin Hood, focusing on gun control and other stuff that doesn’t much affect me. > > Don’t get me wrong- I’m not voting Republican, and haven’t for several elections now. But it’s much more a situation of the GOP going off the rails and becoming ignorant, hateful and just flat-out stupid, than it’s some sort of situation where the Democratic party’s platform or candidates really entice me. If anything, the more insane ones like Sanders or Warren repel me more than anything else. But they repel me far less than Trump, or morons like Matt Goetz, Louie Gohmert, or to use a more local example, Briscoe Cain. > > I really don’t like the idea that I should have to both choose sides, and go all-in on one party or the other’s agenda. Just because I’m voting Democrat doesn’t mean that I think they’re wonderful- far from it. It’s that the GOP has gotten so godawful lately that I can’t vote for them in good conscience or as a rationally thinking person. That’s good, and I don’t really think the Democratic party is any better than a C- party at this time. Maybe they/we have flirted with C+/B- at certain times in the last few decades. So I have no problem with you not having particularly warm feelings for the Democratic party. But the Republicans are a deep, deep F party – so bad, and so dangerous, that it’s imperative that all decent and rational folks vote Dem until the Republican party has either changed beyond recognition or been electorally dismantled. An actual conservative party would be fine – a pro-corruption, pro-bigotry, pro-misogyny party, as the GOP is in its current form (based on the words of its leadership), is totally unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/72 "2019-11-12T20:38:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Sure, but a lot of that stuff isn’t quite so… pressing if you’re not at the edges. I mean, universal health care is a good thing, and so is higher minimum wages, but honestly, they’re not high on my list. “I am a healthy privileged fortunate [member of the top 1% of global wealth](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/01/how-much-money-you-need-to-be-part-of-the-1-percent-worldwide.html) in an era of widespread severe social, economic and environmental crisis, and I demand to know why my preferred political party isn’t prioritizing policies to directly increase my already enviable advantages!” :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: > [@bump](#): > > Don’t get me wrong- I’m not voting Republican, and haven’t for several elections now. But it’s much more a situation of the GOP going off the rails and becoming ignorant, hateful and just flat-out stupid, than it’s some sort of situation where the Democratic party’s platform or candidates really entice me. Well, it is definitely easier for the Democrats to court indifferent voters when the Republicans are making themselves so actively repellent. > [@bump](#): > > Just because I’m voting Democrat doesn’t mean that I think they’re wonderful- far from it. Don’t worry, nobody is likely to imagine that you or any other Democratic voter actually thinks the Democrats are wonderful, an opinion which I’m not sure has ever been held by any voter in the history of the modern Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/73 "2019-11-12T20:48:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You’re proud . . . of being - - proud? > > Huh. > > Ummm, okay, I guess. :dubious: He works for the Department of Redundancy Department ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/74 "2019-11-12T20:52:34Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Show me where you are noticing this… Senator Hirono famously said: > [@](#): > > Guess who’s perpetuating all of these kinds of actions? It’s the men in this country, and I just want to say to the men in this country: Just shut up and step up. Do the right thing, for a change … Representative Ilhan Omar said: > [@](#): > > “I would say our country should be more fearful of white men across our country because they are actually causing most of the deaths within this country … And so if fear was the driving force of policies to keep America safe — Americans safe inside of this country — we should be profiling, monitoring, and creating policies to fight the radicalization of white men” that’s a couple of examples, using the “elected Democrats” standard. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/75 "2019-11-12T20:54:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I stand corrected. I should have said, “fellow liberals”. That’s more accurate because I have never registered to be officially affiliated with any political party so in the strictest sense, I have no “fellow Democrats”. Well, the same exit poll shows 10% of self-identified liberals voted for President Trump, so you’re not really any better off with your change. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/76 "2019-11-12T21:12:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, the same exit poll shows 10% of self-identified liberals voted for President Trump, so you’re not really any better off with your change. So 8% of Trump voters identified themselves as Democrats and 10% as liberals? That does it. They can no longer call themselves true Scotsmen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/77 "2019-11-12T21:14:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Well, the same exit poll shows 10% of self-identified liberals voted for President Trump, so you’re not really any better off with your change. IIRC those can be counted in 2 camps: 1) As falling for the early idea that Trump is such a liar that he must had been lying during the campaign so as to be elected and once in power he would show how liberal he was\*. 2) Lets watch the Republicans go down with the ship with Trump as captain. - Some conservatives did fall for this, like the ones that reportedly expected that taking away their health care or deporting their loved ones was a lie too. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/78 "2019-11-12T21:25:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So 8% of Trump voters identified themselves as Democrats and 10% as liberals? > > That does it. They can no longer call themselves true Scotsmen. I think you’ve got it backwards. CNN had pollsters standing outside of polling locations, polling people as they exited. 36% of the voters said they were Democrats, and of those 36%, 89% said they voted for Clinton, and 8% for President Trump. Likewise, on a separate question they asked about ideology, 26% of voters said they were liberals, and out of those liberal voters, 84% said they voted for Clinton and 10% for President Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yankees_1996_Champs)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/79 "2019-11-12T21:29:32Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does Antonio Brown “give black people a bad name”? Do you believe that the actions of a single black person always reflect upon all black people? Do you believe similar things about white people? Yes. I believe that Trump gives white people a bad name. Steve Bannon gives white people a bad name. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316/80 "2019-11-12T21:36:27Z")
> [@Yankees\_1996\_Champs](#): > > Yes. > > I believe that Trump gives white people a bad name. Steve Bannon gives white people a bad name. How exactly does that work? Does Trump also give people whose names start with D a bad name? Does he give a bad name to people currently living in DC, or to people who golf, or to people who use Twitter, or to people whose ancestors changed their surnames on immigrating to the United States? That entire “gives X group a bad name” is a foolish construct, doubly so when the X group isn’t chosen by any member of the group. And when that construct is used in a way that strengthens racist dynamics (e.g., in conjunction with the stereotype that black men are violent criminals), it’s racist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-proud-middle-of-the-roader-and-damn-proud-of-it/843316.md?page=5)