# I am a really unpopular dad tonight **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 31, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208 "2007-01-31T01:39:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/21 "2007-01-31T16:53:00Z")
When I was in college, this was standard for anyone who did not have prior renting experience (not counting the dorms). Had my mom not co-signed, I would have been unable to find a place to live. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/22 "2007-01-31T17:05:47Z")
I find it distasteful, but I don’t think it’s that uncommon of a request in a college town. I’ve looked at many apartments where the landlord wanted detailed info on parents if the applicants are students. I can kind of understand it too, as I’ve known many many college-age renters who I’d _hate_ to have as tenants, and who are not reliable or responsible (and, I’ve known shady landlords, and 100% perfect college-age tenants, and horrible adult tenants, etc etc etc). I’d say that as much as you want your daughter to be 100% independant and responsible in this case, it might be very hard for her to find an affordable apartment without you being on the lease as well. I wouldn’t have been able to get my first car if my dad hadn’t co-signed the loan for me. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/23 "2007-01-31T17:05:53Z")
I did a little checking in the State of Michigan website. It seems that this “Guaranty” that is being requested is an attempt to circumvent some pretty clear legislation spelled out in [Michigan Public Act 348 of 1972](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kszss255fufyqo45e2in0o45))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Act-348-of-1972). The relationship between Landlord and Tenant are pretty clearly spelled out & the remedies are well defined. At the suggestions made here, I pointed my daughter to the college’s off-campus housing department for further advice. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/24 "2007-01-31T17:08:39Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] I find it distasteful, but I don’t think it’s that uncommon of a request in a college town. I’ve looked at many apartments where the landlord wanted detailed info on parents if the applicants are students. I can kind of understand it too, as I’ve known many many college-age renters who I’d _hate_ to have as tenants, and who are not reliable or responsible (and, I’ve known shady landlords, and 100% perfect college-age tenants, and horrible adult tenants, etc etc etc). I’d say that as much as you want your daughter to be 100% independant and responsible in this case, it might be very hard for her to find an affordable apartment without you being on the lease as well. I wouldn’t have been able to get my first car if my dad hadn’t co-signed the loan for me. [/QUOTE] Detailed info is OK. I gave them my name and telephone number. I am just not willing to sign up to be responsible for an unlimited amount of damage that may result from actions of legal adults that are outside of my control. To paraphrase my attorney, this is what business insurance is for. (Not to mention that this is not the method prescribed by the State of Michigan as I noted in the last post). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/25 "2007-01-31T17:10:22Z")
This is not standard on the University of Michigan campus, though asking a parent to co-sign would not be unusual. From what I’m getting from the OP, though, the problem isn’t that they’re asking for a co-signer – it’s that they won’t even bother going after his kids first if something gets damaged, AND that there are no limitations to his liability. If this is a correct reading, then obviously OP has made a splendid and responsible decision, and if your daughter bitches about it you can say some other college kid approves. 🙂 Seriously, I LIVED with college students. I’ve seen kids take the landlord’s furniture and smash it in the middle of the street. You don’t want to be held responsible for that kind of idiocy, but the landlord shouldn’t have to carry the burden either… it should be the responsibility of the idiot, who’s supposed to be behaving like the adult he or she allegedly is. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/26 "2007-01-31T17:34:16Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] I wouldn’t have been able to get my first car if my dad hadn’t co-signed the loan for me. [/QUOTE] That’s true however: “Dad, I have no credit, can you co-sign a car loan for me?” “Sure thing.” vs. “Dad, my friends and I have no credit, we want to all buy a car together, can you co-sign a car loan for us?” “Hell no.” If it were my daughter leasing an apartment by herself I’d say yes. It’s the two roomates that I’m leary of. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/27 "2007-01-31T17:46:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] If it were my daughter leasing an apartment by herself I’d say yes. It’s the two roomates that I’m leary of. [/QUOTE] Bingo! Open-ended liability for me with respect to the roommates is unacceptable. Another interesting point is that she bought a Ford Explorer & there was no need for a co-signer. Did I mention that she is a full-time employee (as a customer service / sales rep)? She has excellent credit and a track record of financial responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/28 "2007-01-31T18:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] Another interesting point is that she bought a Ford Explorer & there was no need for a co-signer. Did I mention that she is a full-time employee (as a customer service / sales rep)? She has excellent credit and a track record of financial responsibility. [/QUOTE] Have you thought about just calling the landlord and asking if they could be flexible? Tell them the truth - it isn’t standard where you live and you’re not comfortable signing it. But she responsible, etc, and you have no intention of letting her fall behind on the rent. If your daughter has some work history or good credit maybe they’ll take her on her own. I’ve found that in larger cities these things are flexible, but maybe I’m optimistic. Just my opinion: I agree with those who say that these terms are strict but not necessarily dishonest, and in a college town (is this a college town?) I’d much rather have a strict landlord, all else being equal. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/29 "2007-01-31T18:18:34Z")
I was a college kid in Michigan and rented a house with roommates and later an apartment without trouble. We had parental info given out and co-signers but nothing like what they were asking for. I wouldn’t sign that for my kid either. They should be able to find another place that doesn’t require those terms without too much trouble. Like you said, it sounds like the landlord is trying to get around something. Co-signing is one thing, and is common for students without full time jobs, but it sounds like your daughter shouldn’t even need a co-signer if she works full time and has good credit. And most co-sign situations don’t go after the co-signer first so it’s not like you are turning down a reasonable request IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/30 "2007-01-31T18:24:23Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] I did a little checking in the State of Michigan website. It seems that this “Guaranty” that is being requested is an attempt to circumvent some pretty clear legislation spelled out in [Michigan Public Act 348 of 1972](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kszss255fufyqo45e2in0o45))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-Act-348-of-1972). The relationship between Landlord and Tenant are pretty clearly spelled out & the remedies are well defined. At the suggestions made here, I pointed my daughter to the college’s off-campus housing department for further advice. [/QUOTE] I think you did the right thing. Read some of the Pit threads about students complaining about college roomates skipping out and money issues. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/31 "2007-01-31T21:17:32Z")
I’d bet you would have felt pretty suckered if you were the only parent to give information and then found that the landlord only really needed one parent to sign and you ended up with the burden. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/32 "2007-01-31T22:16:55Z")
It was something like 20-25 years ago, but I rented something like 8 apartments during my protracted college stay and never was the issue of parental co-signage raised. Never heard of anyone else mentioning it either. I can imagine the landlords wanting this, but I am having a hard time figuring why the market would comply. I’m wondering if in some ways it reflects parents today being more willing to subsidize their college age childrens’ lives. My wife teaches in a community college (admittedly a different scenario) and has gotten over being surprised at the number of students who attend to stay on their parents’ insurance, and whose parents pay their cellphones, car insurance, etc. (It comes up because she teaches Business Law, which included contracts.) ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/33 "2007-01-31T22:23:56Z")
[QUOTE=Dinsdale] My wife teaches in a community college (admittedly a different scenario) and has gotten over being surprised at the number of students who attend to stay on their parents’ insurance… [/QUOTE] Are you talking about health insurance or car insurance? If it’s health insurance I can see where this would be a valid option, since most parents can be on an insurance plan through their employer which includes dependents, whereas it would be extremely costly for the student to obtain his/her own health insurance as an unemployed single person. Even if the university makes health insurance available to students it is often more expensive/not as good as the parents’ coverage. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/34 "2007-01-31T22:24:47Z")
[QUOTE=Hampshire] I’d bet you would have felt pretty suckered if you were the only parent to give information and then found that the landlord only really needed one parent to sign and you ended up with the burden. [/QUOTE] Its funny you said this because I was just thinking of the reverse. If any of the other parents signed off, it may be a non-issue for me! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/35 "2007-01-31T22:57:23Z")
Is she at WMU or GVSU? If she’s in Kzoo, I’ll guess she’s trying for Cooper’s Landing… they asked me for the same info, even after I get my BA. I decided not to live there pretty quickly after that. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/36 "2007-01-31T23:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Savannah] Perhaps the security deposit is regulated, as it is in BC. Here we cannot legally take more than one-half-month’s rent as a security deposit. (And another half-month-rent as a pet damage deposit now, which is considered a seperate deposit.) [/QUOTE] Here in the US, security deposits can be as high as they want them to be, AFAIK. It’s not uncommon to see first/last/security as stipulations to moving in. -foxy ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/37 "2007-02-01T00:06:26Z")
To be perfectly honest, AFAIK, that kind of thing is common here. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/38 "2007-02-01T00:11:58Z")
[QUOTE=ladyfoxfyre] Here in the US, security deposits can be as high as they want them to be, AFAIK. It’s not uncommon to see first/last/security as stipulations to moving in. -foxy [/QUOTE] It varies by jurisdiction. In California, they can’t be higher than two months’ rent for an unfurnished unit. In Kansas, it can’t be higher than one month’s rent for an unfurnished unit. Michigan is 1.5 months. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/39 "2007-02-01T00:17:17Z")
[QUOTE=ladyfoxfyre] Here in the US, security deposits can be as high as they want them to be, AFAIK. It’s not uncommon to see first/last/security as stipulations to moving in. [/QUOTE] There are state laws, though. In CA, IIRC, it’s a max of 2 months rent for unfurnished and 3 months rent for furnished. On edit: Curse you, **Q.N Jones** , and your faster fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2007, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208/40 "2007-02-01T00:44:09Z")
Also, for the future, [Student Legal Services](http://studentlegalservices.dsa.umich.edu/) of the U of Michigan offers free legal advice to registered students, and they know A LOT about landlord/tenant law in Michigan. They were very helpful to my then-SO on lease matters and some other run-ins with his landlord. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-a-really-unpopular-dad-tonight/390208.md?page=3)