# I am an ugly WOMAN, and I hate it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329 "2012-03-09T21:38:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/181 "2012-03-13T03:15:21Z")
I should also point out, as a man, that what I find most attractive in a woman is that she’s nice to me. I can look past a lot if she smiles at me, touches me, and seems interested in me. And no, I’m not kidding. Do looks matter still? Well, sure, but not every guy’s stupid enough to think he can date Eva Green. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/182 "2012-03-13T03:27:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I should also point out, as a man, that what I find most attractive in a woman is that she’s nice to me. I can look past a lot if she smiles at me, touches me, and seems interested in me. . . . and fucks like a wildcat. Definitely a plus. For me, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/183 "2012-03-13T03:30:00Z")
> [@Entheogen](#): > > Think life is shit being an ugly chick? Try being an ugly, blue collar guy. It’s true. They need to spend half of their income on escorts until they finally, after fifteen years, get promoted to that coveted lower retail management position that will finally impress the ladies enough that they will sleep with him without payment. It’s a tough life! ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/184 "2012-03-13T03:53:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I should also point out, as a man, that what I find most attractive in a woman is that she’s nice to me. I can look past a lot if she smiles at me, touches me, and seems interested in me. And no, I’m not kidding. > > Do looks matter still? Well, sure, but not every guy’s stupid enough to think he can date Eva Green. Daniel Goleman said that kindness is the highest ranked trait both sexes look for (men want fertility, women want power/money, but neither wants it as much as someone who is kind and easy to relate to). I have no idea what his evidence of that was and what people say they want and what they really want aren’t always the same thing, but it sounds right. Women who are physically hot can lose their appeal after a minute if they are cold, contemptuous or rude. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_t\_Recall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Can\_t\_Recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_t_Recall)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/185 "2012-03-13T04:13:45Z")
> [@Entheogen](#): > > Think life is shit being an ugly chick? Try being an ugly, blue collar guy. > > You don’t even get ‘pretend’ affection from some chick who wants to bang you. > > Nobody’s going to hold doors open or offer you seats 'cause you look like you had a bad day. It might be infrequent for you, but it DOES happen. > > There is no ‘men’s night.’ (Unless it’s a gay bar.) > > Seriously, look at the nerdy, asymmetric faced poindexter in class, tail him a bit, watch what happens… People are indifferent to you, but are outright dicks to him. > > That aside, a lot of it for a lady is in style, not looks. I know a lot of women that are slimmer/more well endowed/etc. than a lot of other women, but come off as less attractive, simply due to style alone. > > Keep in mind, low 20-somethings are bundles of hormones looking to bed as many women, as attractive as possible (for the most part.) That, and remember, for every person that finds you unattractive and says it, there’s one that DOES, but hasn’t said a word. > > Buck up, chipper! > > Get your hair dyed, get a spa treatment, throw on a pair of T’n’A’s, a baby phat jacket and go to a bar. > > BOOM, you’re attractive. > > I’ll go to the same bar in an Armani. Watch me get laughed at. > > (Learn the gift of gab… Or how to talk dirty :P) Yeah I guess ugly guys have it tough too, but it depends. Sometimes they are also hoping to score with a 10… and ignore uglier chicks who might be interested in them. I know, 'cause it’s happened to me, pining over a guy who wasn’t “hot” (he was hot to me, but the rest of the world told me to get glasses) and he was trying to get with hot chicks. And none of them were into him. It happens. I guess we can just commiserate. By the way, what is “T n’ A”? From my knowledge, I have small “Ts” and a kinda big “A” (whereas the ideal is a smaller A)… so what do you mean by that exactly? ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/186 "2012-03-13T04:57:13Z")
> [@Entheogen](#): > > Think life is shit being an ugly chick? Try being an ugly, blue collar guy. Truly, the OP just doesn’t get it. Waaah, waaah. It’s not like [chicks are photographed all hypersexualized when equivalent guys aren’t](http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/03/05/gratuitous-objectification-in-gqs-comedy-issue/). I bet she has a problem with how often discussions about female [athletes](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=601384) [Ph.D holders](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=519193) [politicians](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=634387) and so on often focus solely on their attractiveness instead of their accomplishments. Or how often guys will [barge in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10946073&postcount=27) with [really lame “jokes”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=8490898) about [helping with a breast exam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5127860&postcount=8) or needing [photos of boobs](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/report.php?p=13638580), even in serious discussion threads. I mean, why would she think that many people still value a woman’s attractiveness more than other traits? I salute you for pointing out who the _real_ sufferers are. I will [play this in your honor](http://bit.ly/y9dS7k). ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/187 "2012-03-13T05:21:02Z")
Guys go for hot girls, we can’t help it, we are not always proud about it but when a hot girl is around we pay attention. What is hot? Well there are the Angelinas of the world but most blokes will tell you that a smile and an inkling that you may be in is what hot is about. We really don’t want an Angelina etc, way too much work and upkeep. A bald patch of your eyebrow? 99.9% of blokes would never see that and if they did then they are a superficial dirt bag or an eyebrow fetishist! On the boob thing, boobs are brilliant in all their forms. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/188 "2012-03-13T05:48:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > And women don’t do this? :dubious: > > I am 44 years old, an engineer with a good income, and I’m short and bald. I have learned that “short and bald” are two \*major \*strikes against me. I can count the number of times on my hand a woman has talked to me (unsolicited) in my life. > > If I were to walk in to a bar, and a taller, good looking guy with no job and no college degree also walked into the same bar, who do you think the women will notice? Who do you think they’ll want to strike up a conversation with? > > I’m not pitying myself. I’m just showing that it goes both ways. yeah and she expects me to pay for drinks. Life is not fair, it just is what it is, make the the best of it and carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/189 "2012-03-13T05:50:48Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > \ A bald patch of your eyebrow? 99.9% of blokes would never see that and if they did then they are a superficial dirt bag or an eyebrow fetishist!\ That’s true enough. From discussions with my husband, I have come to realize that men see women and all of our _accoutrements_ much differently than women see them. He says that about 75% of what women do to make themselves what they consider attractive is lost on guys. ---
**Author:** ![snailboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/97f17d/32.png) [@snailboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snailboy)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/190 "2012-03-13T07:47:48Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > From my knowledge, I have small “Ts” and a kinda big “A” (whereas the ideal is a smaller A)… Who told you a small ass is ideal? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/191 "2012-03-13T13:59:03Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > It happens. I guess we can just commiserate. By the way, what is “T n’ A”? From my knowledge, I have small “Ts” and a kinda big “A” (whereas the ideal is a smaller A)… so what do you mean by that exactly? We’re going to try this one more time. Your breasts are not “small” and you are also not “fat.” Nor are you unusually “tall.” YOU’RE NORMAL, get over it. Not an ugly, hideous Yeti-woman, just an average gal with a body 90% of American women would actually injure themselves to possess. The Man isn’t doing anything to you that you aren’t doing to yourself. YOU are the one punishing you for all your imagined faults. I beg you to seek therapy for your distorted self-image. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/192 "2012-03-13T14:25:48Z")
I love the implication here that it’s perfectly fine that women feel all this pressure to conform to beauty norms, but that the OP has no right to complain because she doesn’t happen to be particularly ugly. These things hurt pretty and average women as well, folks. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/193 "2012-03-13T14:34:06Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > I get childish dimples when I smile > … I have dark circles under my eyes which won’t go away even with adequate sleep/diet… I thought dimples were considered cute? The perma-black-eyes are called _ojos moros_ in Spain, “moorish eyes”. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/194 "2012-03-13T14:44:38Z")
> [@Entheogen](#): > > Think life is shit being an ugly chick? Try being an ugly, blue collar guy. > > You don’t even get ‘pretend’ affection from some chick who wants to bang you… > …I’ll go to the same bar in an Armani. Watch me get laughed at. > > (Learn the gift of gab… Or how to talk dirty :P) A lot of what you’re talking about is just being a guy but an ugly blue collar guy with a good sense of humor and a personality still does OK for himself. Sure he loses out to the good looking guy with a good sense of humor and and a personality but you’ll do fine. My experience has been that women are more into wit than intelligence. And if you can somehow manage to shut off the selfish and immature gene that seems to come with the Y Chormosome then you are probably the going to do better than most good looking guys. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Women who are physically hot can lose their appeal after a minute if they are cold, contemptuous or rude. Speaking as someone who spent his youth dating good looking women who were total bitches, I can say that really good looks makes all that bitchiness tolerable for a lot more than a few minutes but IIRC, they lose much if not all their hotness after you date them long enough that the sex becomes familiar, if they are still bitchy at that point, you start looking for the next girl and you don’t even feel bad about it. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/195 "2012-03-13T16:19:51Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > whereas the ideal is a smaller A Um, what? So listen, Jennifer Lopez isn’t considered an uber-hottie because she has a small, tight ass- she’s considered an uber-hottie because she has a big, round booty. Ditto for Beyonce - her body IS too bootylicious. I have no idea where you got your ideas from - the douchebags you hang around with, weird women’s magazines, your girl friends - I have no clue. But a big round booty is not a bad thing as far as most men are concerned. Now, sure, there are guys who prefer a slim-hipped Asian gal (despite what the twit that wrote that garbage ‘research’ study you linked to would suggest), but there are just as many who dig a curvy butted gal too. Speaking as one who’s built like Jessica Rabbit, the bigness and curvaceousness of my ‘A’ has _NEVER_ been a problem. Like, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/196 "2012-03-13T16:20:55Z")
> [@Sacrilegium](#): > > Behold the wifey. Two thoughts come to mind. 1. Her eyes are so breathtaking that she could be sporting one in the center of her forehead, encrusted with oozing half-dried pustules and surrounded by layers of sweaty grease and she’d still have a great eye. 2. She knows “Harry Potter” isn’t real. Right? 😃 To the OP: I’ve been with and have been drawn to all body types. Maybe I’m weird. Dark hair, redheads, blondes, pear shaped, apple shaped, hourglass shaped, pocketwatch shaped. You’re smart, you have a laugh, you have light in your eyes? Ya rung my bell. My Dearly Beloved™ pinned the meter every which way. My two cents is that this is not a troll. She may be new to our board and ways, but it doesn’t feel trollish. Feels painfully honest, but not trollish. E.T.A. Someone mentioned Jennifer Lopez up there. I spent the say with her shooting an interview. Walked her down the hallway, down the steps and into the interview room and then shot for a few hours. Watched her " on " camera and off in between segments. The classic pear-shaped body, not yet completely honed down. She left me cold. Why? Because she’s got the depth of a sheet of onionskin paper. The physical attributes, whatever one may think of her, didn’t do jack diddly for me. She’s vapid. She’s inarticulate. Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/197 "2012-03-13T16:57:54Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > 1. She knows “Harry Potter” isn’t real. Right? 😃 I think somewhere deep in her psyche she must know. Otherwise she’d have left me for Snape by now. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/198 "2012-03-13T17:15:07Z")
I may have lost the cosmic roll of the dice in some areas, but not in my luck with dating. I have had some awesome gfs, pretty consistently for about 20 years. I’ve been blessed to get to date pretty much whoever I want! The result of this situation is that one is forced to decide what they’re looking for. You think you want this, you can’t believe end up with just that kind of woman, then it doesn’t work out and you realize you were wrong about what you thought you wanted. Or wrong about how you perceive people, but let’s try to keep it simple. Before I dated a few super-hot women, I just kind of expected that they would be socially comfortable, used to dealing with people, good conversationalists and this sort of thing simply because of how much they would get to practice at receiving attention. But no, total bombshell women are often enough perfectly nice, but also nervous wrecks. No matter how dreamy hot a woman is, even if she likes having sex with you, you can’t have a long-term relationship with them if their behavior consistently makes you wonder, “what’s wrong?” I dated some super-accomplished women. One was the hottest of them all IME (though my friends agreed she was ‘fat’. She was also crazy and furious, but when _she_ did it it was interesting and hot. Unstable and in retrospect almost certainly doomed relationship). Mostly they tended to be plain, maybe they didn’t wear make-up or didn’t spend their lives gnashing their teeth over fashion choices. I think a lot of make-up is silly anyway, it makes a person come off like they couldn’t do things outdoors. Anyway, in all cases I broke up with the super-accomplished women only because of circumstances. In a slightly different world I could have stayed with any of those. Now I think neither hot nor accomplished are necessary. Lately I am with someone who is ‘good’, which seems to trump other considerations. I’m sure she’ll be accomplished later, she’ll get there because she is good. If she doesn’t, she’s still good. I think she’s hot but 1) ‘pretty’ is an accident, but taking care of oneself actually means something and 2) experience tells me other people may not agree with what I think is hot, but they will mostly agree about the difference between a harpy and a good person. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/199 "2012-03-13T17:21:18Z")
What’s that old saying? [“No matter how hot she is, somewhere out there is a guy who’s sick and tired of putting up with her shit.”](http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/538ff0eddcba62836620eb8f18867056.png) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/200 "2012-03-13T19:12:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > What’s that old saying? [“No matter how hot she is, somewhere out there is a guy who’s sick and tired of putting up with her shit.”](http://static.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/538ff0eddcba62836620eb8f18867056.png) 🙂 But that’s also true of non-hotties, so really, you might as well nail the hot chick if you have any chance at all. ~Mal, perpetual non-hottie-nailer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=11)