# I am an ugly WOMAN, and I hate it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329 "2012-03-09T21:38:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/201 "2012-03-13T20:04:20Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Many of my girlfriends who aren’t beauties by any stretch of the imagination ended up married to guys they basically jumped. Nice guys, interesting guys, intelligent guys. I’ve been occasionally “jumped” by women, including my wife. My wife’s friends want her to help find them find a boyfriend/husband. My wife and other “jumpers” I’ve known are assertive, outgoing, social types who are not afraid to make a move. Her single friends tend to be quiet types who are afraid to take the initiative. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/202 "2012-03-13T20:36:06Z")
When you played in the sandbox, the cat kept covering you up. When you were born, the doctor told your father “Sorry, we did everything we could, but she pulled through.” Your mother had morning sickness AFTER you were born. You worked in a pet shop and people kept asking how big you’d get. They wanted to make you a poster kid - for birth control. You went to see the doctor. “Doctor, every morning when I get up and I look in the mirror I feel like throwing up. What’s wrong with me?” He said, “I don’t know but your eyesight is perfect.” \ ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/203 "2012-03-13T20:36:52Z")
In my experience, there is a correlation between attractiveness and personality. I used to think that real beauty was on the inside, and dated plain women that other guys ignored. In the real world, I observed that people often wear their attitude on their sleeve. The plain women were more antisocial, selfish, naive, and overall less intelligent. When I started dating more attractive women, I found that women who put more effort in their appearance tended to be more outgoing, open minded, worldly and kind. I wonder if some women just “give up” on looks, feeling theyll never be pretty enough so why try? This tends to show more than just the occasional crow’s foot on their personality. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/204 "2012-03-13T20:39:52Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > When you played in the sandbox, the cat kept covering you up. When you were born, the doctor told your father “Sorry, we did everything we could, but she pulled through.” Your mother had morning sickness AFTER you were born. You worked in a pet shop and people kept asking how big you’d get. They wanted to make you a poster kid - for birth control. > > You went to see the doctor. “Doctor, every morning when I get up and I look in the mirror I feel like throwing up. What’s wrong with me?” He said, “I don’t know but your eyesight is perfect.” > > \ Or it might be Ed Zachary disease. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/205 "2012-03-13T21:39:53Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > In my experience, there is a correlation between attractiveness and personality. I used to think that real beauty was on the inside, and dated plain women that other guys ignored. In the real world, I observed that people often wear their attitude on their sleeve. The plain women were more antisocial, selfish, naive, and overall less intelligent. When I started dating more attractive women, I found that women who put more effort in their appearance tended to be more outgoing, open minded, worldly and kind. > > I wonder if some women just “give up” on looks, feeling theyll never be pretty enough so why try? This tends to show more than just the occasional crow’s foot on their personality. “no matter how plain a woman may be if truth and loyalty are stamped upon her face all will be attracted to her.” - Eleanor Roosevelt. If you’re not hot and you don’t have a bubbly personality that can overcome suboptimal looks, then have character. Character and integrity can be very attractive indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/206 "2012-03-13T21:51:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > “no matter how plain a woman may be if truth and loyalty are stamped upon her face all will be attracted to her.” - Eleanor Roosevelt. > > If you’re not hot and you don’t have a bubbly personality that can overcome suboptimal looks, then have character. Character and integrity can be very attractive indeed. Indeed, but one must admit that your quote doesn’t come from an unbiased source. ---
**Author:** ![PotLuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@PotLuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PotLuck)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/207 "2012-03-14T02:22:54Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Indeed, but one must admit that your quote doesn’t come from an unbiased source. It’s far more credible coming from Eleanor Roosevelt than someone who looks like Angelina Jolie. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/208 "2012-03-14T02:30:59Z")
And let’s just take a hard look at Angelina, shall we? She appears to have had molars extracted and is emaciated to boot. Her figure is unlike 99.2% of the human beings on the planet. Since we only know what we are spoon fed as the public, we don’t know a thing about her as a person. Feh. She’s gross IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/209 "2012-03-14T02:57:47Z")
It’s just as shitty to bash a conventionally-attractive\* woman’s appearance as it is an unattractive woman’s. For those slow on the uptake, that means _it’s really shitty_. But hey, I’m sure everyone (especially guys who sum up a woman in terms of how bangable she is to them) doing this is a 10 themselves. They wouldn’t ever be [hilariously hypercritical of a woman’s looks while being no catch himself](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg265/scaled.php?server=265&filename=standards9zq.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480). Nope, no way. - it’s quite safe to say this applies to Jolie, so please don’t reply with NUH UH I PERSONALLY THINK SHE’S HIDDY. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_t\_Recall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Can\_t\_Recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_t_Recall)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/210 "2012-03-14T03:16:48Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > It’s just as shitty to bash a conventionally-attractive\* woman’s appearance as it is an unattractive woman’s. For those slow on the uptake, that means _it’s really shitty_. > > But hey, I’m sure everyone (especially guys who sum up a woman in terms of how bangable she is to them) doing this is a 10 themselves. They wouldn’t ever be [hilariously hypercritical of a woman’s looks while being no catch himself](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg265/scaled.php?server=265&filename=standards9zq.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480). Nope, no way. > > - it’s quite safe to say this applies to Jolie, so please don’t reply with NUH UH I PERSONALLY THINK SHE’S HIDDY. I still believe this happens due to culture. Somewhere along the way, it became acceptable for men to be ugly and criticize women prettier than themselves (I may be ugly, but I recognize that females are generally better looking than males… I may be biased, though). I think it has to do with all the years women were seen only as baby machines and men were seen as intelligent and hard working, that women are still mostly judged on their physical attributes (ie. how capable they are for childbearing, how good are their genes, etc.), while men are judged on how capable they are at working and making money and ruling the world. By the way, I’m no feminist and this is JUST a personal theory. For all I know, I might be (and probably am) completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/211 "2012-03-14T04:16:37Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > They wouldn’t ever be [hilariously hypercritical of a woman’s looks while being no catch himself](http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg265/scaled.php?server=265&filename=standards9zq.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480). . To be fair, we havn’t seen HIS knees. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/212 "2012-03-14T04:35:52Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > Somewhere along the way, it became acceptable for men to be ugly and criticize women prettier than themselves… > women are still mostly judged on their physical attributes (ie. how capable they are for childbearing, how good are their genes, etc.), while men are judged on how capable they are at working and making money and ruling the world. It didn’t become acceptable ‘along the way’, it’s just human nature to evaluate and opine on the ‘other side’ even if you don’t measure up. And it goes both ways. Just as low-level men (judged by their status and money) critique women who are above their league (in looks), I’m sure women who are low-level in their judgeable attributes (looks) critique men who are above their league (in status and money) ETA: In the same vein, it’s perfectly OK to opine on a new Ferrari, even if you can never afford one. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/213 "2012-03-14T04:50:17Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > And it goes both ways. Is there any actual evidence for this? I ask because the context is a case of a man who is (almost certainly) far less attractive than Angelina Jolie complaining about her looks and, sadly, it’s far from the first time I’ve heard such a comment from a man. So it seems like a rather odd moment to note women’s apparent guilt in the matter. Is there some reason to think that women are just as likely to make statements like that? (Ignoring, for the moment, the differential regarding the greater pressure on women to look certain ways.) Do you have evidence that women actually do that in anywhere near the same frequency as men? Or is this something we just have to assume on faith? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/214 "2012-03-14T05:07:52Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Is there any actual evidence for this? I ask because the context is a case of a man who is (almost certainly) far less attractive than Angelina Jolie complaining about her looks and, sadly, it’s far from the first time I’ve heard such a comment from a man. So it seems like a rather odd moment to note women’s apparent guilt in the matter. > > Is there some reason to think that women are just as likely to make statements like that? (Ignoring, for the moment, the differential regarding the greater pressure on women to look certain ways.) Do you have evidence that women actually do that in anywhere near the same frequency as men? Or is this something we just have to assume on faith? Anecdotally, I’ve often heard female friends say things like “I don’t like the way Tom Cruise looks, but I do like George Clooney”, even though both of these guys are way above the league of those particular female friends. And it’s OK. It’s OK to critique someone who is above your league, especially if they are famous. It’s all in good fun, since you will never meet them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/215 "2012-03-14T05:13:35Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Anecdotally, I’ve often heard female friends say things like “I don’t like the way Tom Cruise looks, but I do like George Clooney”, even though both of these guys are way above the league of those particular female friends. Okay, but that’s different than what Cartooniverse did here – I’m perfectly capable of not being at all attracted to Tom Cruise despite the fact that he’s way out of my league. But Cartooniverse didn’t just say he wasn’t into Angelina. I think the sort of critical comment he was making about her looks is qualitatively different from just indicating that she’s not his type. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/216 "2012-03-14T05:25:02Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Okay, but that’s different than what Cartooniverse did here – I’m perfectly capable of not being at all attracted to Tom Cruise despite the fact that he’s way out of my league. But Cartooniverse didn’t just say he wasn’t into Angelina. I think the sort of critical comment he was making about her looks is qualitatively different from just indicating that she’s not his type. First, I \*have \*heard things between female friends like “Brad Pitt is ugly, what do you see in him?” Second, Angelina Jolie looks like a freak, so Cartooniverse is fully justified 🙂 No matter where one stands in the beauty spectrum, there is a generally accepted scale of beauty (even though, of course, a lot of it is subjective). It’s perfectly OK to give your opinion on where other people fit on that scale, no matter where on that scale you happen to be. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/217 "2012-03-14T05:36:48Z")
To the original poster who started this thread? You’re an ugly woman? And you hate it? Something worth considering… Mother Theresa was no oil painting but she was a damn lot closer to sainthood than Princess Diana - both of whom died in the same week in case you don’t recall. Dunno 'bout you, but I always had shitloads more admiration for Mother Theresa than I did for almost every other woman on the planet - except for my Mom of course. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/218 "2012-03-14T05:40:30Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > First, I \*have \*heard things between female friends like “Brad Pitt is ugly, what do you see in him?” I’ve had plenty of discussions with women about attractive men; I’ve also been privy to more than a few discussions among heterosexual men about women, and I don’t think the tone, on average, is the same of such discussions, and the example you give is still far short of the kind of thing Cartooniverse said. The “sharp knees” jokes floating around the internet are a joke but not all that outlandish, in my experience. It seems to me as though there’s a tendency for men to fixate on minuscule flaws in women and describe them in really specific and mean-spirited terms. > [@](#): > > No matter where one stands in the beauty spectrum, there is a generally accepted scale of beauty (even though, of course, a lot of it is subjective). It’s perfectly OK to give your opinion on where other people fit on that scale, no matter where on that scale you happen to be. Everyone’s perfectly entitled to an opinion about whether or not they find someone else, especially a celebrity, attractive. I have no argument there and as I said, I am perfectly willing to say that celebrities who are way, way out of my reach are not attractive. Matt Damon seems cool and smart and has a great body but I nonetheless don’t find him attractive in the least. I have no problem with people saying things like that. It still doesn’t mean that it’s typical for women to go around making statements about men quite as damning as Cartooniverse’s statement about Angelina Jolie. And judging by the examples you keep giving, it doesn’t sound like you have heard many women saying comparable things. Even had he just called her ugly it would still be different than his outlining of her specific physical flaws – especially about how her body weight is wrong (she’s “emaciated”, so I guess women in our culture really apparently are damned either way in the eyes of men). ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/219 "2012-03-14T05:41:37Z")
> [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](#): > > Something worth considering… Mother Theresa was no oil painting but she was a damn lot closer to sainthood than Princess Diana - both of whom died in the same week in case you don’t recall. > > Dunno 'bout you, but I always had shitloads more admiration for Mother Theresa than I did for almost every other woman on the planet - except for my Mom of course. . . . yeah I don’t think Mother Teresa is the example you want to use if your goal is to illustrate virtue. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/220 "2012-03-14T11:53:51Z")
I agree that it can be shocking how critical groups of men can be about women. I don’t think I’ve ever head a group of women tearing a man’s body apart piece by piece. Usually we will just say “He’s hot” or “he’s kind of funny looking- not my thing.” But I’ve had the pleasure of sitting at a table of men happily dissecting women they know, taking each little body part and passing judgement. It is unnerving, and it does lead to you going home, looking in the mirror, and doing the same to yourself. > [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](#): > > To the original poster who started this thread? > > You’re an ugly woman? And you hate it? > > Something worth considering… Mother Theresa was no oil painting but she was a damn lot closer to sainthood than Princess Diana - both of whom died in the same week in case you don’t recall. > > Dunno 'bout you, but I always had shitloads more admiration for Mother Theresa than I did for almost every other woman on the planet - except for my Mom of course. Sure, but she didn’t get laid much, did she? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=12)