# I am an ugly WOMAN, and I hate it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329 "2012-03-09T21:38:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/221 "2012-03-14T13:06:29Z")
Page 5 and we haven’t heard from the Founding Fathers? Need to fix that. Here’s George Washington to his wife’s granddaughter on her engagement: > [@](#): > > Do not then, in your contemplation of the marriage state, look for perfect felicity before you consent to wed. Nor conceive, from the fine tales the poets and lovers of old have told us of the transports of mutual love, that heaven has taken its abode on earth. Nor do not deceive yourself in supposing that the only mean[s] by which these are to be obtained is to drink deep of the cup and revel in an ocean of love. Love is a mighty pretty thing, but, like all other delicious things, it is cloying. And when the first transports of passion begin to subside, which it assuredly will do and yield, oftentimes too late, to more sober reflections, it serves to evince that love is too dainty a food to live upon _alone_ and ought not to be considered farther than as a necessary ingredient for that matrimonial happiness which results from a combination of causes; none of which are of greater importance than that the object on whom it is placed should possess good sense, good dispositions, and the means of supporting you in the way you have been brought up. -Ron Chernow’s biography, “Washington”, p. 102. There you have it, advice from a Real American[sup]tm[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/222 "2012-03-14T14:09:34Z")
Huh, I thought Ben Franklin was the go-to guy for relationship advice. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/223 "2012-03-14T14:51:32Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Huh, I thought Ben Franklin was the go-to guy for relationship advice. Relationship advice, no. Advice on getting laid? Oh hells yes. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/224 "2012-03-14T15:31:41Z")
Proof: these [two](http://puppetfreemedia.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Mystery.png) [hats](http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/graphics/photos1112/franklin1877.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/225 "2012-03-14T15:33:07Z")
_If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life Never make a pretty woman your wife So from my personal point of view Get an ugly girl to marry you_ - Benjamin Franklin ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/226 "2012-03-14T15:51:40Z")
Apropos of nothing, I just watched mast night’s Daily Show. Oh my ghod, I so very much want Kristen Schaal. . ---
**Author:** ![Sacrilegium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f05b48/32.png) [@Sacrilegium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sacrilegium)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/227 "2012-03-14T16:00:12Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Apropos of nothing, I just watched mast night’s Daily Show. > Oh my ghod, I so very much want Kristen Schaal. > > . She ain’t bad. Hell, I kinda want Sarah Vowell. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/228 "2012-03-14T16:24:53Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But I’ve had the pleasure of sitting at a table of men happily dissecting women they know, taking each little body part and passing judgement. That is unfortunate. Being a guy and hanging around with guys quite a bit, I am grateful that I have never experienced this. Certainly experienced the “hot or not hot” discussions. And the “did you see the size of her cans?” type comments, but never been a party to an in depth anatomical grading session. Women probably aren’t as focused on appearance as men, but they can be pretty critical of guys hairlines, musculature, clothes and height. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/229 "2012-03-14T18:33:14Z")
> [@Billy\_Baroo](#): > > When you played in the sandbox, the cat kept covering you up. When you were born, the doctor told your father “Sorry, we did everything we could, but she pulled through.” Your mother had morning sickness AFTER you were born. You worked in a pet shop and people kept asking how big you’d get. They wanted to make you a poster kid - for birth control. > > You went to see the doctor. “Doctor, every morning when I get up and I look in the mirror I feel like throwing up. What’s wrong with me?” He said, “I don’t know but your eyesight is perfect.” > > \ When I was a baby my mother took me on a bus. The bus driver says: “That’s the ugliest baby that I’ve ever seen.” Mum goes to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming. She says to a man next to her: “The driver just insulted me!” The man says: “You go right up there and tell him off – go ahead, I’ll hold your monkey for you.” ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/230 "2012-03-14T19:20:37Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Okay, but that’s different than what Cartooniverse did here – I’m perfectly capable of not being at all attracted to Tom Cruise despite the fact that he’s way out of my league. But Cartooniverse didn’t just say he wasn’t into Angelina. I think the sort of critical comment he was making about her looks is qualitatively different from just indicating that she’s not his type. EXACTLY !! I so rarely stir the pot unless it is a thread on pedophiles. I don’t talk like that. Like that post. And to be blunt, I think that way rarely but I do. Any adult- male or female- who would deny ever having a coarse thought regarding attraction is an utter liar. I like women built differently than Angie. If I knew her soul and loved her soul - and apparently Brad does and does - then perhaps her sharp edges and concave cheeks would light me up. I do not, and surely they do not. The truth? It takes one moment of beautiful gesture to make beauty appear. I see women carry themselves with the same poise and grace walking to the subway that Angie displays on the Red Carpet™. Has little to do with mooovie star. Everything to do with how you see yourself. I don’t see a lot of beauty and physical appeal- in MY brain’s way of seeing it- when I look at Angie. In the biggest way of course, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/231 "2012-03-14T19:36:53Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > No matter where one stands in the beauty spectrum, there is a generally accepted scale of beauty (even though, of course, a lot of it is subjective). It’s perfectly OK to give your opinion on where other people fit on that scale, no matter where on that scale you happen to be. Well said, and exactly why I was coarsely blunt in my comment. Look, I’m wired the way I am just as everyone has different wiring. Angie looks like a Barbie Doll. That comes with a whole fuckload of social programming, and I do believe that the Barbie Doll Body thread has been done here before. There’s a scale. But I do feel it is an internal scale - we ALL have a scale. At the dawn of my career when life was in B&W, I worked as a P.A. for a woman built exactly like Angie. The rare real Barbie figure. Long legs down to there. Narrow but curved hips. No fat at waist. D cup. Long luxurious thick dark hair. Stunning face. Amazing eyes. Full soft lips. Guys on the crew who were new, or outsiders ( deliver people, etc ) uniformly tried to run over her or just plain ignore her or treat her like shit. Because of the visual first impression. Pigs. Who was she? A strong deeply brilliant fast moving clever humorous woman who was the Producer to a killer famous commercial director. She treated her crews with respect as long as they returned the gesture. Those who Barbie-fied her? Oh, woe to them. She didn’t bitch them out. She simply reminded them that the respect she was showing them was due back. Very few kept up a snotty sexist attitude for very long. She was a pro, and treated even the lowly young Cartooniverse with respect. So, Arlene, here’s to you. 🙂 When I see Angelina or anyone of either gender who appears to have removed things from their body to look the way they do, I envision a small pile of body parts on a table next to them. " Look at how FAAABULOUS Angelina looks !! She’s wearing Ferragammo Gnocci of course, and there’s the table full of molars, ribs, body fat and ganglia she’s had removed and my god she looks just FAAABULOUS ! " 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/232 "2012-03-14T21:23:54Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Is there any actual evidence for this? I ask because the context is a case of a man who is (almost certainly) far less attractive than Angelina Jolie complaining about her looks and, sadly, it’s far from the first time I’ve heard such a comment from a man. So it seems like a rather odd moment to note women’s apparent guilt in the matter. > > Is there some reason to think that women are just as likely to make statements like that? (Ignoring, for the moment, the differential regarding the greater pressure on women to look certain ways.) Do you have evidence that women actually do that in anywhere near the same frequency as men? Or is this something we just have to assume on faith? See the thread about “I hate it when people say my penis must be small because I drive a hot car.” 🙂 Women might not comment about every part of a guy’s body, but we’re just as critical in other ways, I think. > [@Sacrilegium](#): > > _If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life > Never make a pretty woman your wife > So from my personal point of view > Get an ugly girl to marry you_ > > - Benjamin Franklin Dang you - I just got that song out of my head! > [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](#): > > When I was a baby my mother took me on a bus. The bus driver says: “That’s the ugliest baby that I’ve ever seen.” Mum goes to the rear of the bus and sits down, fuming. She says to a man next to her: “The driver just insulted me!” The man says: “You go right up there and tell him off – go ahead, I’ll hold your monkey for you.” I laughed way too much at this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/233 "2012-03-15T13:40:59Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Huh, I thought Ben Franklin was the go-to guy for relationship advice. Women are from Washington, men are from Franklin? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/234 "2012-03-15T14:05:14Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > \*\* I am an ugly WOMAN, and I hate it \*\* At least **you** don’t have to **look** at it! :d&r: ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/235 "2012-03-15T20:10:37Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Whisperer] See the thread about “I hate it when people say my penis must be small because I drive a hot car.” Women might not comment about every part of a guy’s body, but we’re just as critical in other ways, I think. [/QUOTE] 😕 Huh? Making a small penis joke about someone’s car isn’t even a comment on their body, it’s a joke based on a stereotype. Making a small penis joke about a guy after sleeping with him would be, but you’re talking about something totally different. It’s weird that people keep responding to what Cartooniverse said by coming up with examples of women saying things that don’t even resemble what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/236 "2012-03-16T03:26:52Z")
I’m saying that women might not criticize a man’s looks the way men criticize women, but we criticize other things. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/237 "2012-03-16T03:44:52Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I’m saying that women might not criticize a man’s looks the way men criticize women, but we criticize other things. Okay? I don’t see why criticizing someone’s choice to buy an expensive car is equivalent to calling someone “emaciated” because she is thinner than he prefers. And unless you think they are equivalent, I don’t get the point of bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/238 "2012-03-29T01:48:57Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And completely true. At least for women. Oh? Always? Which Kate do you prefer? [age 20](http://www.movieactors.com/freezeframes5/muchado984.jpeg) [age 30](http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/swebarb/Upper%20Deck%20The%20Cup/PS3%201080P%20wallpapers/underworld39zv.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![JonVoit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JonVoit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonVoit)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/239 "2012-03-30T06:35:51Z")
This has got to be one of the weirdest topics I have seen lol. * * * [Shapers Fins](http://www.wetfins.com.au/brands/Shapers-Fins.html) , [Surfboard Fins](http://www.wetfins.com.au/categories/surfboard-fins.html) ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/240 "2012-03-30T09:21:35Z")
You saw this topic laugh out loud? I should really turn the sound up on my computer… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=13)