# I am an ugly WOMAN, and I hate it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329 "2012-03-09T21:38:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/21 "2012-03-10T00:53:13Z")
An interviewer asked James Baldwin what were the biggest disadvantages in his career as a writer. Baldwin said “Being born black, ugly, and gay.” Then the interviewer asked what were his biggest advantages. Baldwin said “Being born black, ugly, and gay.”\* There must be thousands of ways to be philosophical about it, and I like this example. And I don’t think philosophy is to be sneered at. I have respect for it. \*I think when I read this it was quoted by Octavia E. Butler about her own writing career. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/22 "2012-03-10T00:54:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks those girls are way hotter _before_ the makeover? No, you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/23 "2012-03-10T01:06:53Z")
Plenty of butt ugly dudes out there too. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_t\_Recall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Can\_t\_Recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_t_Recall)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/24 "2012-03-10T01:13:55Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > So the situation isn’t so bleak, there are plenty of good guys with relatively plain looking woman. Looks count, but they’re hardly the end-all and be-all of existence that you’d think they were from listening to the average fraternity BS session. 🙂 > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I don’t think we can judge adequately without pictures. 😃 I don’t feel like posting a picture, sorry 😉 > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Heh…leg up, and over the shoulder and here comes your raise baby! > > Hey OP. Why are you ugly? Is your face all funny and asymmetrical or do you just have better things to do than learn makup & hair-do? For what it’s worth, age has taught me to appreciate honesty & cleverness over looks & youth. My first wife was a hog when we got together inhigh school–looking at her yearbook pictures I can honestly say her face would make a freight train steer for a dirt road. Eventually she cleaned up nice and a few years did her some favors. Then she became a complete ho and I had to lose her. Wife 2.0 is hot, young, smart AND honest. She learned a while back to appreciate honesty over looks as well which is how I ended up getting her time o’ day. > > Are you [Sandra Bernhard](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000928/) ugly? Cuz she seems to do alright. As a dude, I can tell you attitude is a FAR more powerful attractant than looks. Well I am ugly because, I don’t know I don’t have obvious deformities, but I think my eyes are really boring, both because of shape and color (brown), I have some scars from chickenpox which I got when I was 19, including a bald spot in one of my eyebrows (which I can cover, but if I’m not careful you can see the scar)… my nose is not big but it’s too round and it’s not pointy and perky and feminine… I have a strong jaw and high cheekbones (I know some women dig these, but I hate them), my mouth I feel is a bit small for my face, lips aren’t thin nor thick, but they’re wrinkly, I have big front teeth, I get childish dimples when I smile, my face is wide ('cause my head is big), I have dark circles under my eyes which won’t go away even with adequate sleep/diet… my hair is thin and fine, and while shiny and soft, it just falls to the sides of my face and I can’t style it much 'cause I have mild alopecia (not very noticeable yet)… plus my hair tangles by just looking at it… The only thing I like about my face is my forehead, which is round and smooth, and my skin which is mostly blemish free and kind of olive colored. I just find my face is really boring, and it doesn’t photograph well… in mirrors sometimes I don’t think I look too bad, but I see pictures of myself and cringe. My face is not obviously pretty and delicate, it’s definitely not manly, but it’s not that “innocent-delicate-[ultra-feminine (NSFW)](http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine)” type of beautiful face. Then my body… I’m around 5’7", some 130 lbs… right now I’m literally working my ass off to shed some more pounds in the hopes of toning my ass/legs and abs a bit more and hopefully (fingers crossed tight!!) to slim my thighs some more… like I mentioned, I am pear shaped, and I feel disproportionate, and thus I hate buying clothes… I hate having to buy separate tops and bottoms when shopping for bikinis… 'cause my boobs are small (around a 34B) and guys my age still seem obsessed with big tits, especially since there are many girls who’re slimmer, shorter and with less hips who have bigger boobs. I just feel like I belong more in a Renaissance painting, but then again, I’m neither white skinned nor light haired enough. I thought Sandra Bernhard was a lesbian? Nothing wrong with lesbians, but women in relationships with other women are way less concerned about looks than men in relationships with women (or men for that matter, since gay men tend to have more body image issues)… so maybe she’s not the best example. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/25 "2012-03-10T01:45:18Z")
Anger is the second step on the five-step path to acceptance, so you’ve got a ways to go. I hope you know, there’s nothing to be gained from being resentful about something over which you have no control–that would make you ugly AND bitchy, which is way worse than just ugly. So, unless you have the means and the will to get plastic surgery to look less ugly, _stop moaning about it._ It just so happens that, due to an accident of birth, life isn’t as easy for the ugly people of the world as it is for the pretty ones. Oh well, shit happens. It’s also harder to be born black or gay or autistic than it is to be born white or straight or neurotypical. We don’t get to choose these things, nobody does. And if you were truly smart, you’d work on evolving past dwelling upon it. _Love,_ _A smartass chick who’s terribly smart and unpretty_ P.S. My male cousin is terribly smart and terribly unattractive, and he married a very kind, intelligent girl who also has a truly unfortunate face. They’re an amazing couple, their new baby is hideous, and they couldn’t possibly be happier. There’s nothing that says you can’t find happiness even though you’re not pretty, unless you allow your bitterness to transform you into a dreadful she-harpy. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_t\_Recall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Can\_t\_Recall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_t_Recall)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/26 "2012-03-10T01:56:01Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Anger is the second step on the five-step path to acceptance, so you’ve got a ways to go. I hope you know, there’s nothing to be gained from being resentful about something over which you have no control–that would make you ugly AND bitchy, which is way worse than just ugly. So, unless you have the means and the will to get plastic surgery to look less ugly, _stop moaning about it._ It just so happens that, due to an accident of birth, life isn’t as easy for the ugly people of the world as it is for the pretty ones. Oh well, shit happens. It’s also harder to be born black or gay or autistic than it is to be born white or straight or neurotypical. We don’t get to choose these things, nobody does. And if you were truly smart, you’d work on evolving past dwelling upon it. > > _Love,_ > _A smartass chick who’s terribly smart and unpretty_ > > P.S. My male cousin is terribly smart and terribly unattractive, and he married a very kind, intelligent girl who also has a truly unfortunate face. They’re an amazing couple, their new baby is hideous, and they couldn’t possibly be happier. There’s nothing that says you can’t find happiness even though you’re not pretty, unless you allow your bitterness to transform you into a dreadful she-harpy. OK, I’ll take the tough love… although I guess it’s human nature to want what others have, but yeah, you have a valid point, there’s no point dwelling about this, although having a pretty sister and friends makes it hard not to feel as accepted by men as they do… I really hate wanting to be accepted and validated by men, but the heart wants what the heart wants… maybe I’m foolish like that. So I’ll work on it, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/27 "2012-03-10T02:01:26Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > 🙂 > Well I am ugly because, I don’t know I don’t have obvious deformities, but I think my eyes are really boring, both because of shape and color (brown), I have some scars from chickenpox which I got when I was 19, including a bald spot in one of my eyebrows (which I can cover, but if I’m not careful you can see the scar)… my nose is not big but it’s too round and it’s not pointy and perky and feminine… I have a strong jaw and high cheekbones (I know some women dig these, but I hate them), my mouth I feel is a bit small for my face, lips aren’t thin nor thick, but they’re wrinkly, I have big front teeth, I get childish dimples when I smile, my face is wide ('cause my head is big), I have dark circles under my eyes which won’t go away even with adequate sleep/diet… my hair is thin and fine, and while shiny and soft, it just falls to the sides of my face and I can’t style it much 'cause I have mild alopecia (not very noticeable yet)… plus my hair tangles by just looking at it… > > I just find my face is really boring, and it doesn’t photograph well… in mirrors sometimes I don’t think I look too bad, but I see pictures of myself and cringe. My face is not obviously pretty and delicate, it’s definitely not manly, but it’s not that “innocent-delicate-[ultra-feminine (NSFW)](http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine)” type of beautiful face. > > Then my body… I’m around 5’7", some 130 lbs… right now I’m working to shed some more pounds in the hopes of toning my ass/legs and abs a bit more and hopefully (fingers crossed tight!!) to slim my thighs some more… like I mentioned, I am pear shaped, my boobs are small and guys my age still seem obsessed with big tits, especially since there are many girls who’re slimmer, shorter and with less hips who have bigger boobs. You don’t sound ugly one bit. You sound like most other women I’ve known in my life; insecure about their bodies and far and away their own worst critics. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/28 "2012-03-10T02:15:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > If this doesn’t work, fuck them. That’s been known to get guys to pay attention. Or did you mean something else? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/29 "2012-03-10T02:21:31Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > I don’t feel like posting a picture, sorry 😉 > [@](#): > > Then my body… I’m around 5’7", some 130 lbs… right now I’m literally working my ass off to shed some more pounds in the hopes of toning my ass/legs and abs a bit more and hopefully (fingers crossed tight!!) to slim my thighs some more… like I mentioned, I am pear shaped, and I feel disproportionate, and thus I hate buying clothes… I hate having to buy separate tops and bottoms when shopping for bikinis… 'cause my boobs are small (around a 34B) and guys my age still seem obsessed with big tits Did I mention I have a thing for small or medium breasts… and 130 at 5’7" isn’t exactly chunky to begin with. In fact, that’s less weight than average. You might not be toned, but you’re at a healthy weight right now. …You don’t happen to live in Atlanta, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/30 "2012-03-10T02:32:14Z")
You’re better off plain with a decent figure than fat and pretty. I grew up [fat and pretty](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxD1rBgCvbY&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL991CED5045680BF6), my best friend was extremely plain (a 3or 4 maybe with coke bottle glasses and a terrible skin condition that made her face red and lumpy) with a nice body. Both of us were smart and funny and interesting. Guess who had no problem at all getting cute, cool, great boyfriends? Hint: it wasn’t me. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/31 "2012-03-10T02:42:06Z")
> [@Can\_t\_Recall](#): > > Then my body… I’m around 5’7", some 130 lbs… right now I’m literally working my ass off to shed some more pounds You probably just lost 90% of any pity you might have had from most of the ladies right there…how do you make a pear shap with that little mass to work with. Me thinks you are not entirely in touch with your own image. Honestly you would lose me for being too damn skinny. Yes I like curvy, but 130? My 5’0" g/f weighs 145, as far as I am concerned she is just the right amount of fluffy. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/32 "2012-03-10T02:49:32Z")
just as an example, this is a woman I dated [http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2064879/grace.jpg](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2064879/grace.jpg) thats 5’7" 135 pounds. A Size 2 IIRC ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/33 "2012-03-10T02:55:03Z")
Welcome to the Dope, **Can’t Recall**. > [@Simplicio](#): > > \ > That said, groups of drunk college age males are probably the most shallow lifeforms in existence, so I don’t think I’d try and generalize your friends behaviour to people in general. Twenty-something men play this stupid game when they get together of “point out the hot chick”. \ This, > [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > You need a better class of friends. and this, > [@Ambivalid](#): > > You don’t sound ugly one bit. You sound like most other women I’ve known in my life; insecure about their bodies and far and away their own worst critics. and this. You don’t sound ugly; you sound normal and average, like most of the rest of us. You sound like you have a lot going for you, but being drop-dead gorgeous isn’t one of those things; oh well. There’s a line from Desiderata that I like - > [@](#): > > If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/34 "2012-03-10T03:10:24Z")
Alright, I’m a couple beers in at this point. Let’s see a picture. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/35 "2012-03-10T03:13:21Z")
Sorry, but I call bullshit. New poster, pitting yourself and pouring your heart into sneak self-pity but no picture? Right. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/36 "2012-03-10T03:19:18Z")
Bare Minerals makes a great product for under eye circles called “Well Rested”. Give it a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/37 "2012-03-10T03:21:15Z")
I just wanted to say there’s absolutely nothing unattractive about small boobs. There are plenty of males like me who don’t even consider boob size a factor at all. And really, you’re hanging out with the wrong crowd if physical attractiveness is all that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/38 "2012-03-10T03:21:23Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Sorry, but I call bullshit. New poster, pitting yourself and pouring your heart into sneak self-pity but no picture? Right. Yeah…it’s probably Jennifer Aniston having a bad day so she’s posting here. Needy movie stars… ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/39 "2012-03-10T03:32:00Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Edit: That said, it’s strange that they’d even discuss attractiveness in mixed company. I guess it shows they trust you at least? It is also likely that they don’t think of her as a sexual creature, so don’t really think anything wrong about talking about other women in front of her. Here is a good scientific article about attractiveness and appearance. [http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSW13.pdf](http://evolution.binghamton.edu/dswilson/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSW13.pdf) Basically, attractiveness is in large part (but not wholly) based on how you think of someone as an individual. They did studies where they compared how attractive people were to strangers vs to people who knew them and calculated how much of attraction is based on knowing them. I think it works out to roughly 60%, but it varies from person to person. One woman was rated a 3.5 at the start of a summer program (on a scale of 1-10) but at the end was rated a 7 because people liked her personality. Plus you can change your hygiene, clothes, hair, etc. So its not the end of the world I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329/40 "2012-03-10T03:34:34Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Alright, I’m a couple beers in at this point. Let’s see a picture. Beer goggles! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-an-ugly-woman-and-i-hate-it/615329.md?page=3)