# I am appalled at the smearing of scientist Dr. Steven Hatfill by the FBI re. anthra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626 "2002-08-13T02:31:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/1 "2002-08-13T02:31:10Z")
The FBI has gone out of their way to provide public information about Steven Hatfill’s possible involvement in the anthrax attacks, even though they have no evidence at all against him, and event though he has cooperated fully. > [@](#): > > \*\*Lawyers Complain About FBI Search \*\* > Sat Aug 10, 4:47 PM ET > By LAURA MECKLER, Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON(AP) - Lawyers for Dr. Steven J. Hatfill, a bioweapons expert under scrutiny for the anthrax attacks, have complained to the Justice Department about its treatment of their client, including the recent highly publicized search of his apartment complex. > \ > “We told him we were dissatisfied with the pattern of leaks and statements made by federal agents about Steve Hatfill,” Clawson said… > \ > Clawson said the lawyers were particularly angry about the most recent search of Hatfill’s Fredrick, Md., apartment, which has been searched twice… > \ > Clawson said Hatfill had agreed to allow the search and his lawyers were trying to schedule a date when, on the next day, the FBI showed up with a search warrant. > > “They were willing to cooperate and the FBI executed search warrants instead, catching them completely by surprise”…With a news helicopter hovering overhead… [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020810/ap\_on\_re\_us/anthrax\_hatfill\_7](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020810/ap_on_re_us/anthrax_hatfill_7) Then there’s the mysterious involvment of his chief accuser, Barbara Rosenberg, who a poster on another site called a leftist. On Fox News, a panelist called her a “crackpot.” > [@](#): > > Mr. Hatfill said he is bothered that the FBI’s increased interest in him apparently stems from “a woman named Barbara Hatch Rosenberg [who] saw fit to discuss me as a suspect in the anthrax case in a meeting with FBI agents” in June. > > “I don’t know Dr. Rosenberg. I have never met her,” he said. “I have never spoken or corresponded with her. I am at a loss to explain her reported hostility and accusations.” > > Mrs. Rosenberg is the chairman of the biological-arms-control panel for the Federation of American Scientists and has been an adviser to the government on biological weapons issues. She has served on a weapons panel under President Clinton and, more recently, has been involved in tracking those responsible for the anthrax mailings, having on at least one occasion briefed FBI agents and staffers with the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary committees. [http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020812-1329550.htm](http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20020812-1329550.htm) I do not know what’s up with Ms. Rosenberg, but my beef is with the FBI. Apparently they are publicizing their interest in Hatfill as way to make themselves look good, especially since they’ve gotten nowhere in their investigation. They appear to be destroying the livelihood and reputaton of an innocent research scientist. Even if Hatfill turns out to be guilty (which appears unlikely), there’s no excuse for the FBI’s leaks and innuendos. Any FBI agents directly involved should be fired, including their superiors all the way up the line! This is an outrage! ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/2 "2002-08-13T02:51:40Z")
I read a story about this on the weekend and while at first it sounded like Hatfill’s career had pretty much been destroyed, according to [this report](http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/2002/08/09/1028158017137.htm), he has found a somewhat ironic new career path. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/3 "2002-08-13T03:00:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Barbara Rosenberg, who a poster on another site called a leftist. On Fox News, a panelist called her a “crackpot.” The poster on another site quote is gratuitous. Only shows your bias. And a “Fox News” panelist? What? Since when do news shows have panelists? Another smear. I don’t have any opinion on her. But you ain’t helping your case by innuendo. > [@](#): > > Even if Hatfill turns out to be guilty (which appears unlikely), Based on what? Why unlikely? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/4 "2002-08-13T03:27:44Z")
Interesting article in this week’s Newsweek: > **[MSNBC News - Breaking News and News Today | Latest News](https://www.msnbc.com/)** > > MSNBC breaking news and the latest news for today. Get daily news from local news reporters and world news updates with live audio & video from our team. - Bloodhounds trained on scent-packs from the letters became agitated when they approached Hatfill: “They went crazy,” one law-enforcement source said. - For years he warned that the US was vulnerable to a bioweapons attack; he appeared on a cable news TV show warning that anthrax could be sent via mail. - he posed for a magazine photo spread that depicted him making a batch of anthrax in his kitchen All circumstantial, yes, and could be coincidental. But I’m thinking there’s a decent chance he’s the guy. That said though, I agree there’s no excuse for the leaks. The man is indeed suffering punishment when he hasn’t even been charged with anything. The FBI should convict people via courts, not via the press. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/5 "2002-08-13T03:29:09Z")
The FBI has bungled the investigation badly. The NY Times reported back in June that the Anthrax spores were less than two years old, and likely from a govt. lab [Here’s the thread, with link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122050&highlight=anthrax). Putting aside the B.S. about carbon dating, that means that the Feds probably know exactly which government lab it came out of, and when it was made to within a month or two; and STILL they can’t nail the bastard ? It’s almost as if they’re making an effort NOT to solve the case. ::insert conspiracy theory here:: ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/6 "2002-08-13T03:37:48Z")
december, One day you’re going to shock us all and post a rant without a liberal bashing slant to it. Unfortunately, today wasn’t that day, which is too bad, as I would have completely agreed with you for the first time in recent memory about an issue. I agree completely that the FBI should have kept the guy’s name private until such point as they actually arrest him, but as for the Fox News cheap shots, you should be aware that that “leftist” “crackpot” is [just as pissed about the FBI](http://www.fas.org/bwc/news/anthraxreport.htm) as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Ace\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Ace\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/7 "2002-08-13T03:51:02Z")
Aww come on… everyone knows we can’t solve this case until an Iraqi connection has been fabrica… err, found. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/8 "2002-08-13T03:58:36Z")
Geez, and here I was thinking the press was jumping to conclusions. But if december is crying that he’s innocent, I’ll have to seriously reconsider my position. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/9 "2002-08-13T04:09:57Z")
Before we get too carried away here, let us note that one of the things Dr. H. was complaining about was that the Feds went and got a search warrant after he had given them permission to search. The point is that search warrants in the federal system are issued by a judge or magistrate based upon a showing that there is good reason to think that a search will turn up something more or less incriminating. Warrants are not issued lightly. Somebody made a persuasive case to the issuing magistrate. While there may well be a lot of pressure for the FBI to come up with something that the D of J can release to the press, by and large Federal Magistrates don’t much care about law enforcement’s public relations. There may be some fishy stuff going on but there is a mustard seed of fact buried in the search warrant application. The way things are going I suppose Fox News will “find” a copy of it sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/10 "2002-08-13T04:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **Then there’s the mysterious involvment of his chief accuser, Barbara Rosenberg, who a poster on another site called a leftist.** Jesus Christ man! And my uncle’s dentist’s son-in-law says that Vince Foster himself planted the evidence. You had a good OP going there, but this is reaching for a “liberal” connection harder than…hell, harder than myself trying to find a humorous analogy. It could also have been phrased: > [@](#): > > \*Rephrased by Anthracite \* > **Then there’s the mysterious involvment of his chief accuser, Barbara Rosenberg, who some random human being who we really have no reason to listen to whatsoever on some random site that doesn’t mean squat alleged could reputedly be a “leftist”. What bearing this has on the case is unclear.** Dude, know how to set your battles up. This was unneeded and gratuitous, and it lessened your message. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/11 "2002-08-13T05:09:52Z")
**Squink** said > [@](#): > > It’s almost as if they’re making an effort NOT to solve the case. I can’t read whether you are being serious or facetious. Do you seriously think the FBI or any government agency would try to NOT try to solve this mystery? If you’re serious, then I can’t believe you think that way. Why would they NOT want to solve it? What would they gain? They would have everything to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/12 "2002-08-13T05:32:37Z")
He’s just this year’s Richard Jewell. Maybe he’ll get to appear on _Saturday Night Live_. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/13 "2002-08-13T12:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > samclem says: I can’t read whether you are being serious or facetious. If the FBI bungles the investigation, they may be able to spare the administration (righties all, btw;) ) the embarrassment of having to admit violating the [Biological Weapons Convention.](http://www.un.org/Depts/dda/WMD/bwc/) You know, the one that says Saddam shouldn’t be growing up smallpox in kg quantities ? Having torpedoed the latest international attempt at limiting germ warfare over [privacy issues](http://lists.jammed.com/politech/2001/07/0098.html),  :rolleyes:, the administration still claims to agree with its goals, in principle. They’re even claiming to be baffled over Iraq’s unwillingness to admit weapons inspectors. A proven case of American duplicity on the treaty would be a real blow to the principles of international law. It would undermine the moral basis for invading Iraq, but more importantly, it would be a boon to Bush’s enemies on the ([http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/germ-j28.shtml](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/germ-j28.shtml)). All of these are good reasons for the FBI to take a torturous approach to the evil-doers. Well, maybe not _good_ reasons. Of course december would have us believe that any whiff of irregularity in the investigation is just the ravings of brain-dead liberals. This is just a simple “cops and robbers” case, [like the Rosenbergs](http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/rosenb/ROSENB.HTM). Nothing to see here but law enforcement professionals doing a professional job of tracking down perpetrators. -In a pigs eye ! ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/14 "2002-08-13T12:42:29Z")
What I’d like to know is why the EU and UN aren’t doing anything about this. Buncha hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/15 "2002-08-13T12:51:01Z")
Crusoe, don’t you know we’re too busy funnelling cash to the Palestinian Terrorists? december, how about next time you want to create an op that cannot refrain from unnecessary leftist bashing, do it in the style of a Letter to Penthouse and give us all something NEW to read from you. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/16 "2002-08-13T13:46:46Z")
The F.B.I., it should be noted, has been under pressure to “do something” about Hatfill, notably by columnist Nicholas Kristof, who’s been writing about the guy (without mentioning his name) for quite awhile. The potential Richard Jewell parallels are disturbing. There’s also a helluva lot at stake here. “Then there’s the mysterious involvment of his chief accuser, Barbara Rosenberg, who a poster on another site called a leftist.” Heaven forfend!! Where’s my crucifix and tinfoil hat! I must protect myself!!! **december** , someday you’ll refrain from tearing down a viable debating position via careless inaccuracies and innuendo. Someday. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/17 "2002-08-13T14:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*The F.B.I., it should be noted, has been under pressure to “do something” about Hatfill, notably by columnist Nicholas Kristof, who’s been writing about the guy (without mentioning his name) for quite awhile. \*\* Yep. In fact Kristof’s [column today](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/13/opinion/13KRIS.html) makes a strong case that Hatfill may be the likely perp, including a allegation that Hatfill “failed three successive polygraph examinations since January, and canceled plans for another polygraph exam two weeks ago.” Perhaps Kristof’s column should be taken with a grain of salt, since his source appears to be the very people who are smearing Hatfill. Still, Kristof’s column suggests that when I blithely assumed Hatfill’s innocence, _I might have been wrong._ :eek: And, if Hatfill is guilty, then I was also wrong about his accuser, Barbara Rosenberg. She would be a heroine, not a crackpot. ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/18 "2002-08-13T15:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*The FBI has bungled the investigation badly. The NY Times reported back in June that the Anthrax spores were less than two years old, and likely from a govt. lab [Here’s the thread, with link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122050&highlight=anthrax). Putting aside the B.S. about carbon dating, that means that the Feds probably know exactly which government lab it came out of, and when it was made to within a month or two; and STILL they can’t nail the bastard ? > It’s almost as if they’re making an effort NOT to solve the case. > ::insert conspiracy theory here:: \*\* Guys, LOTS of labs work with anthrax. Up to about 5 months ago the FBI was still doing swipe tests where I work, which would indicate they were still looking for places with anthrax in odd locations. Saying that the anthrax was from a ‘government lab and less than 2 years old’ is funny 🙂 There are two sorts of labs: government funded research labs and corperate drug research labs. So saying it’s a government lab limits the possible suspects to maybe 70% of the scientific community 🙂 And as for the anthrax being less than two years old… The long biological samples are grown the more the individuals in the population diverge, so you keep your samples fresh. Generally we don’t work with anything more than 3 months old. As for the carbon dating, I was unaware of any techniques to use C-14 dating to within a few months. Probably the BIGGEST problem with making the case is if a scientist really did send the letters. Bleach and lysol do nasty things to organisms, any scientist who was working with anthrax would have completely disinfected their work area after they had finished, which would remove probably all of the physical evidence at what ever location they used to make the anthrax. If they made it in the lab and smuggled it out… nobody would ever find evidence about that. To smuggle bacteria out all you need to do is stick some in a 1.5mL screw cap tube, drop that into your shirt pocket and walk out. The tubes don’t leak, so you won’t contaminate yourself. And lastly, the FBI doesn’t have anyone working for them at the time of the attacks that really knew what materials you’d need to make a small amount of a bioweapon… Anyway, according to the news stories it seemed as if whoever did it was perfecting their technique as they went along. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/19 "2002-08-13T15:05:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*She would be a heroine, not a crackpot. \*\* And that would make Fox News a …? For the record, everything of her’s that I’ve read is just pushing for the feebs to look at the guy, who I’ve never seen her mention by name. With her background, she does know or know of most of the possible perpetrators if you assume it was a domestic job, so I’d definitely be listening to her if I was a part of the FBI. She may very well be wrong, but at least she has some actual basis for her decisions. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/20 "2002-08-13T16:10:12Z")
I look forward to your principled defence of those neither charged nor convicted of other serious offences. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626.md?page=2)