# I am appalled at the smearing of scientist Dr. Steven Hatfill by the FBI re. anthra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2002, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626 "2002-08-13T02:31:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/61 "2002-08-15T04:43:27Z")
Last I heard: > [@](#): > > **to be a lying son of a bitch w/r/t his resume** this wasn’t a crime.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/62 "2002-08-15T04:49:20Z")
[Article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18393-2002Aug14.html) from Aug. 15 WaPo: > [@](#): > > Yet, even as some FBI investigators are intrigued by what they have found, no physical evidence has been found linking Hatfill to the attacks that killed five people and sickened 13 others last fall, sources said. No grand jury has begun hearing evidence, according to people close to the investigation, and interviews with Hatfill have yielded little. > > Some of the information that initially aroused suspicion about Hatfill looks more innocuous on closer inspection… > > There have been media reports suggesting that Hatfill had access to a remote cabin where he could have produced anthrax, and that he told people who came to the cabin to take Cipro. > > George Borsari, a Washington communications lawyer and a Hatfill friend who owns a weekend house near Edinburg, Va., was questioned by the FBI a month ago. He said he is astounded at the idea that Hatfill used the house as a clandestine anthrax lab. The house has never been searched, he said. > > “I am so mad about the way this thing is going it’s not even funny,” he said. “Steven Hatfill is not any kind of wacky guy.” > > Hatfill has been an occasional weekend guest, he said, part of a large social circle at the house. Borsari and Pat Clawson, a former CNN reporter and friend of Hatfill, said they were with Hatfill and others at the country house in October, at the height of the anthrax scare. Each described conversations they had with him about anthrax, including discussions of Cipro. > > Borsari said he asked Hatfill, who has a medical degree, if he could get him some Cipro. "He said he could get it if we really wanted it but said, ‘What would you do with it anyway?’ " Borsari recalled. > \ > Clawson described Hatfill’s social circle as conservative intelligence officials, military officers and defense contractors, most of them gun enthusiasts who get together for target practice and skeet shooting, as well as parties. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/63 "2002-08-15T04:49:30Z")
Fraud. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/64 "2002-08-15T04:50:53Z")
That was directed to PhiloVance, of course. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/65 "2002-08-15T05:56:13Z")
😉 Shoulda known better than to argue with a [**lawyer**](http://www.nolo.com/humor/jokesList.cfm/category/641158CA-43FD-44B8-A1ACFD7F47883441) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/66 "2002-08-15T13:48:13Z")
Never get involved in a land war in Asia, either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/67 "2002-08-15T13:53:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > **Why is everybody getting their knickers in a knot over a polygraph test that Hatfill may or may not have passed?** Why? Because the FBI is using the results of the polygraph to try to convict Hatfill in the court of public opinion. Do you see how this might taint a possible future jury pool? What’s more, by leaking the info to the press, they are effectively turning Hatfill into a pariah. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/68 "2002-08-15T16:51:45Z")
**wring** , to continue your hijack, no, I do not “wish to take you on”, nor, in fact, have I done so: Kindly scroll back to page 1 for a reminder as to which of us first addressed whom in this matter. You and I both have properly denounced convenient revisionism, and it’s a bit silly to try it in a medium where one’s previous statements are so easily and incontrovertibly retrievable. Now, gawdamighty, child, if you’re going to flame anyone who you suspect of “jerkiness” at any time, you’ll never be done, and your personal credibility won’t last long. Gotta prioritize a little better, and establish some cutoff standards, ya know. And here’s a hint: The attempt at a parental approach doesn’t work until you do - it only comes off as common scolding. Hmm, I hope **december** appreciates my agreeing with him on the OP issue. The unanimity of opinion in this thread, on any subject is rare, and to be cherished. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/69 "2002-08-15T17:04:01Z")
**Elvis** , kindly scroll back and note that I did not name you. This is idiotic. Partisan knee jerking _by anyone_ generally doesn’t get anyone anywhere good - note, for example, the train wreck currently going on to it’s 4th page here in the pit. I choose to note it where I think it is most likely to have an effect. Most sorry that I was incorrect on that. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/70 "2002-08-15T17:05:36Z")
**Elvis** , let me try and say this without being parental… Um… No, it’s no good; I can’t do it. _Go to your room, young man!_ Your mo— I mean, **wring** was quite right to scold you. Your partisan shot on page 1 was irrelevant to the OP and unhelpful to the other “liberals” on this board. If your _friends_ tell you your knee is jerking, you might oughta tie the thing down for a while. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/71 "2002-08-15T18:22:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElvisL1ves \*I hope **december** appreciates my agreeing with him on the OP issue. The unanimity of opinion in this thread, on any subject is rare, and to be cherished. I do appreciate it, **Elvis**. BTW note the paragraph from the WaPo article cited above: > [@](#): > > Clawson described Hatfill’s social circle as conservative intelligence officials, military officers and defense contractors, most of them gun enthusiasts… This may help to explain why Hatfill is being defended by conservative media and smeared by some (not all) liberal media. If a former Communist were the suspect, maybe the conservatives would be smearing him and the liberals might be defending. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/72 "2002-08-15T21:47:34Z")
> [@](#): > > This may help to explain why Hatfill is being defended by conservative media and smeared by some (not all) liberal media. (Yeesh.) Maybe the so-called “liberal media” doesn’t have a “liberal” agenda here and just wants to sell papers/ad time, so they’re hopping on a hot story. This type of media frenzy happens all the time without partisanship entering into it. (See, for example, the Jon Benet Ramsey case.) Seeing how most posters to this thread are in agreement (_across party lines_) that the FBI is being abusive, maybe you ought to think about giving the partisan angle a rest, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Dryga\_Yes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Dryga\_Yes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dryga_Yes)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/73 "2002-08-16T00:34:28Z")
To be honest, I didn’t find **december** ’s last post to be partisan. He did say that if it’d been a former communist there’d be a smear campaign be conservative news outlets – i.e. that there’s bias on both sides of the fence. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/74 "2002-08-16T15:13:47Z")
It’s partisan because he’s assuming that the “liberal” media attacked Hatfill because he is “conservative.” It’s partisan because he’s assuming the “liberal” media would jump to the defense of a Communist in the same position. As I said in my last post, the media jumped on this story to sell papers and ad time, not because it was their duty as “liberals” to attack a “conservative.” Why try so hard to read partisan motives into it? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/75 "2002-08-19T21:12:29Z")
This [article](http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB102971139498295635,00.html?mod=opinion) from the Wall St. Journal recapitulates the case, from a conservative POV. According to the WSJ, 1. Rosenberg’s campaign against Hatfill was a product of the “Federation of American Scientists mentality.” (“Its mission is promoting arms control with a scientific twist.”) 2. Her full agenda is to prove that Dr. Hatfill concocted his anthrax with the help of leading bioweapons scientists and in intelligence facilities. That is, that these secret facilities have been used to violate the Biological Weapons Convention. 3. The FBI was impressed by the FAS, but they paid less attention when a Florida physician said he’d treated one of the September 11 hijackers for a skin lesion the doctor now believes was anthrax. Going beyond Hatfill’s guilt or innocence. there seem to be three leading theories about the source of the anthrax attack. Was it due to: – An American scientist working alone (a la the Unabomber) – An American scientist in cahoots with American intelligence agencies. (the FAS, tin foil hat theory) – Al Qaeda terrorists. (The scariest scenario. It implies that there may be other terrorists in this country who have biological weapons and a desire to use them.) I do not expect the FBI to ever formally clear Dr. Hatfill, unless they get definite evidence against someone else. However, every day that passes makes it a bit more likely that he’s innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/76 "2002-08-19T21:43:38Z")
december, please go to the [www.fas.org](http://www.fas.org) website and read Dr. Rosenberg’s analysis of the Anthrax attacks. There is absolutely nothing in there that says or implies that the attacks were the work of someone “in cahoots with American intelligence agencies”. And that same report shows that the FBI was NOT impressed by the FAS- which is why you’re reading about them investigating Hatfill close to a year after the attacks occured. And since this is the Pit, fuck you for your condescending and flip “tin foil hat” theory comment when you’re the one claiming that the FBI and the “liberal press” are out to get him due to his beliefs on gun control. It sounds to me like you’re the one proposing that there’s a conspiracy and, in fact, your conspiracy makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/77 "2002-08-19T22:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > \*\*december, please go to the [www.fas.org](http://www.fas.org) website and read Dr. Rosenberg’s analysis of the Anthrax attacks. There is absolutely nothing in there that says or implies that the attacks were the work of someone “in cahoots with American intelligence agencies” \*\* **Mojo** , please re-read my post. I claimed that the Wall Street Journal said so, and they did. > [@](#): > > To judge by Ms. Rosenberg’s “possible portrait,” however, she does not intend to stop with Dr. Hatfill. One bullet point says, “Knows Bill Patrick and has probably learned a thing or two about weaponization from him, informally.” Another says, “Has a private location where the materials for the attack were accumulated and prepared.” Mr. Patrick is a leading bioweapons scientist and expert on weaponizing anthrax, and Mr. Kristof helpfully adds that the private locations “may be safe houses operated by American intelligence.” > > So the full agenda is to prove that Dr. Hatfill concocted his anthrax with the help of leading bioweapons scientists and in intelligence facilities. In a Salon interview on the FAS Web site, Ms. Rosenberg charged that the FBI was slow to arrest the suspect because, “This guy knows too much, and knows things the U.S. isn’t very anxious to publicize.” That is, that these secret facilities have been used to violate the Biological Weapons Convention, as another arms-control advocate in the Salon article explicitly charges. So, **Mojo** , before you started cursing, did you read WSJ article I cited and the Salon interview, which was the basis for it? Perhaps the WSJ read too much into that interview. It’s [here](http://www.fas.org/bwc/news/anthraxreport.htm), way down the page at VI 2. I hadn’t read the Salon interview when I posted, just the WSJ. As I read the Salon interview, there is not a clear-cut statement that US agencies are covering up, but there are several suggestive statements or hints: > [@](#): > > But despite signs that this should narrow the list of anthrax suspects to a few dozen people, the FBI appears to be casting a wider net in its investigation, which seems to have made fairly limited progress since the first victim… > > The wide net cast by the FBI also baffles many scientists and other weapons nonproliferation experts familiar with the anthrax investigation, who think federal authorities could make more progress identifying the anthrax attacker by focusing on a much narrower group… > > “Frankly, I find it puzzling,” says Elisa D. Harris, who served as director of nonproliferation issues at the National Security Council from 1993 until 2001, and is currently a resident scholar at the University of Maryland. “Given what’s been reported about the nature and quality of the anthrax material in the Daschle and Leahy letters, that the material itself almost certainly originated in the U.S. biological weapons program, they ought to be able to narrow the investigation to a fairly limited number of facilities. That number is certainly less than 20. So I find it puzzling that the FBI has approached all 40,000 members of the American Society of Microbiologists. I don’t understand why they seem to be casting the net so widely.” > > “For more than three months now the FBI has known that the perpetrator of the anthrax attacks is American,” Rosenberg wrote to Salon on Tuesday. “This conclusion must have been based on the perpetrator’s evident connection to the U.S. biodefense program.” > > Rosenberg has become convinced that the FBI knows who sent out the anthrax letters, but isn’t arresting him, because he has been involved in secret biological weapons research that the U.S. does not want revealed. “This guy knows too much, and knows things the U.S. isn’t very anxious to publicize,” Rosenberg said in an interview. “Therefore, they don’t want to get too close.” > > But Jonathan A. King, a professor of microbiology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, says he, too, is suspicious of the government’s handling of the investigation. The accusation that the FBI knows who sent out the anthrax letters but isn’t arresting him because he knows too much sounds like an Alfred Hitchcock movie script to me. However, her vagueness about what the alleged perp supposedly knows makes it hard to be sure of what she means. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Ace\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Ace\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/78 "2002-08-20T05:17:51Z")
> [@](#): > > An American scientist in cahoots with American intelligence agencies. (the FAS, tin foil hat theory) I don’t think anyone believes the anthrax mailer was “in cahoots with intelligence agencies” in planning the attacks, rather that this individual is an angry lone nut with certain connections/ information some would prefer not come to light. Not at all implausible if you’ve read even a little about the history of US covert ops (COINTELPRO, anyone?). Apparently you regard the theory that best fits the evidence as a “tin foil hat” theory. If that evidence is wrong (which would involve a massive disinformation campaign at this point), then why isn’t the Bush administration doing more to counteract it? Are you seriously suggesting the FBI is captive to the whims of one “liberal” scientist? The WSJ is clearly embarrased that their “Iraq must have done it!” campaign – which they embarked upon (along with Richard Cohen at the WaPo) early and with far less evidence than we have for Mr Hatfill – is not panning out. Really, how can they have even a shred of credibility on this topic at this point? They accuse Rosenberg of having an “agenda” when their “agenda” – war with Iraq – was plain to see back when the WTC was still smoldering. These really are Orwellian times. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/79 "2002-08-20T11:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace\_Face \* > Apparently you regard the theory that best fits the evidence as a “tin foil hat” theory. If that evidence is wrong (which would involve a massive disinformation campaign at this point), then why isn’t the Bush administration doing more to counteract it? Are you seriously suggesting the FBI is captive to the whims of one “liberal” scientist? **AF** , I assume you’re saying massive disinformation would be required because massive evidence exists. What massive evidence? I consider it outlandish to claim that the FBI knows the identity of the anthraxer, but they have chosen not to act because he knows too much. There is no evidence that the FBI knows who did it. > [@](#): > > their [the WSJ’s] “agenda” – war with Iraq – was plain to see back when the WTC was still smoldering. Sure. They have openly written editorial after editorial arguing in favor of this course. There’s nothing Orwellian about a newspaper openly editorializing for a policy they support. At leasts they haven’t twisted their news stories to support their editorial position, as the NYT has. However, after re-reading the WSJ editorial, I realize that my summary with “in cahoots” was a bit too flip. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626/80 "2002-08-20T12:58:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*This may help to explain why Hatfill is being defended by conservative media and smeared by some (not all) liberal media. \*\* He is not being smeared by the media. Yes, the FeeB’s were wrong to leak the info. But once they did, the media pretty much _has_ to run with it. That is there job, after all. It’s what they are trained to do. And it can not be considered a smear unless they say something that isn’t true. You have a case against the FBI here, not the ‘liberal’ media. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-appalled-at-the-smearing-of-scientist-dr-steven-hatfill-by-the-fbi-re-anthra/123626.md?page=5)