# I Am Contemplating Converting To Judaism **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411 "2009-10-11T16:54:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/21 "2009-10-12T19:11:47Z")
In the Talmud, it says that “the righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come.” The World to Come is the good Jewish afterlife. So we don’t believe that everyone must either join our faith or go to hell, unlike some Christian denominations. If you believe that you must become Jewish or face some sort of eternal consequences, that’s… well, lets say it goes against the grain of what most Jews believe about the afterlife and people of other religions. If, on the other hand, you find comfort in following Jewish ritual, and you believe that Judaism is the best religion _for you_, those would certainly be acceptable reasons for wanting to join. > [@Alessan](#): > > Basically, Jews tend to be suspicious of people who convert for religious reasons. Most people don’t convert to Judaism only for religious reasons- there’s usually a Jewish potential spouse involved (of course, you could be converting for both that kind of reason and something more spiritual- people can have more than one motive for doing something). Of course, you’re supposed to keep your feelings of suspicion about any convert strictly to yourself. Jewish Law says you are supposed to be nice to converts, and are not supposed to keep harping on their background. Of course, like just about every other Jewish law, there are varying degrees of observance of this. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/22 "2009-10-12T19:23:20Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > In the Talmud, it says that “the righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come.” The World to Come is the good Jewish afterlife. So we don’t believe that everyone must either join our faith or go to hell, unlike some Christian denominations. If you believe that you must become Jewish or face some sort of eternal consequences, that’s… well, lets say it goes against the grain of what most Jews believe about the afterlife and people of other religions. > > If, on the other hand, you find comfort in following Jewish ritual, and you believe that Judaism is the best religion _for you_, those would certainly be acceptable reasons for wanting to join. This is pretty much what I was trying to say. Well, I didn’t exactly say it, but more implied. Jews don’t actually believe that Judaism is “the one true path”, just that it is the best way for a _Jew_ to behave. If you want to become a Jew and practice Judaism, that’s fine, but…well, like **Hello Again** said, the idea that any religion can have the true path to god has a very Christian sound to it. Ideally, according to Jewish thought, if you’re a Jew, you should practice Judaism. If you’re not a Jew, it doesn’t really matter, as long as you follow the Seven Noahide Commandments, which you probably already do if you’re not a total asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/23 "2009-10-12T19:34:27Z")
What, can’t a gentile enjoy latkes too? I’m not thinking of converting in any way, but dammit, now _I_ want a latke. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/24 "2009-10-12T19:38:28Z")
Let me just add one more suggestion: investigate if there is a Reconstructionist synagogue around. I have gone to only one Reconstructionist service, but it was just like the Conservative synagogue I was bar mitzvahed at, except women are treated equal. They do alihahs, for example, which might go in a Reform temple (whose main service is usually Friday night anyway where the question doesn’t arise), but I don’t recall any at the synagogue where my brother was bar mitzvahed. Don’t expect the conversion to be recognized in Israel unless it is Orthodox. They treat women like a lower species. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/25 "2009-10-12T19:38:58Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > What, can’t a gentile enjoy latkes too? I’m not thinking of converting in any way, but dammit, now _I_ want a latke. Latkes for everyone! I want latkes now, too. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/26 "2009-10-12T19:42:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Let me just add one more suggestion: investigate if there is a Reconstructionist synagogue around. I have gone to only one Reconstructionist service, but it was just like the Conservative synagogue I was bar mitzvahed at, except women are treated equal. They do alihahs, for example, which might go in a Reform temple (whose main service is usually Friday night anyway where the question doesn’t arise), but I don’t recall any at the synagogue where my brother was bar mitzvahed. IME, women are treated equally in Conservative shuls. Of course it will vary from shul to shul, but there are female Conservative rabbis and chazzans and I’ve definitely seen women do aliyahs in Conservative shuls. FWIW, I don’t know much about the Reconstructionist movement. The one time I met a Reconstructionist rabbi, her description of the movement’s ideals were eye-rollingly vague. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/27 "2009-10-12T19:45:26Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Latkes for everyone! > > I want latkes now, too. Don’t tell anyone I told you this, but if you process 4 raw, peeled potatoes in a food processor until they’re pulp, squeeze out the liquid through a piece of clean tshirt material, and add 1 egg and 2-3 TBSP matzoh meal or flour, you’ll have latkes in 15 minutes. Yes, yes, I know that latkes are best when made with the sweat of the brow but this way you get 90% of the latke goodness with 10% of the latke effort. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/28 "2009-10-12T19:50:31Z")
I don’t have a food processor! _cries_ ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/29 "2009-10-12T19:52:49Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Let me just add one more suggestion: investigate if there is a Reconstructionist synagogue around. I have gone to only one Reconstructionist service, but it was just like the Conservative synagogue I was bar mitzvahed at, except women are treated equal. They do alihahs, for example, which might go in a Reform temple (whose main service is usually Friday night anyway where the question doesn’t arise), but I don’t recall any at the synagogue where my brother was bar mitzvahed. At all the Conservative synagogues I have been to, women are called up for aliyahs and sit together with men. I think most Conservative synagogues are egalitarian (that’s the usual word meaning women get aliyahs and all that) these days. I wouldn’t consider joining one that wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/30 "2009-10-12T20:05:15Z")
Yeah, Egalitarian Conservative is much more common now than the more Traditional. I’ve considered ‘converting’ to Judaism before (I was raised [Reconstructionist] Jewish, and my father is Jewish) and I may do it some day. I feel most comfortable in a Conservative service, but I am of course not able to fully participate there. Jewish Dopers: what in your experience is the attitude in your community to patrilineal Jews who ‘convert’? I’ve felt remarkably unwelcome in every Conservative or Orthodox synagogue when I mentioned that only my father was Jewish (I wasn’t violating any rules like receiving an aliyah or anything). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/31 "2009-10-12T20:15:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Basically, Jews tend to be suspicious of people who convert for religious reasons. The common Jewish reaction to conversion in my experience is basically “why would anyone _want_ to?” That being said, most Jews I know take a certain amount of pleasure in being Jewish, because it connects one to a deep span of history, a rich culture, and a satisfying way of life. That being said, and for better or worse, many Jews seem in my experience to have the basic opinion that ‘people ought to find satisfaction within the culture in which they were born’, and to think of conversion (in any direction) as being a _bad idea_ - almost a sort of personal failing, unless explained by natural process of assimilation (such as marrying into a Jewish family). Probably a cultural reaction to the centuries of attempts to get Jews to convert - anyone who thought conversion an okay thing probably did and those who are now Jewish are descendants of many generations of people who stubbornly refused to convert themselves. Also of course there is no _religious_ benefit to conversion, as non-Jews who follow the Noahide laws are just as “righteous” as the best Jews. Perhaps for this reason, in Judaism it is often considered rather rude to ask someone if they are a convert. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/32 "2009-10-12T20:22:11Z")
**Daphne** , I’m in the same boat, and IME it has to do with individuals more than any other aspect. For awhile I was considering converting Conservative and went and talked to the rabbi of my local shul (where I was actually teaching Hebrew school at the time). She told me that in my situation, it was really a formality and I didn’t need to take any classes or anything. We chatted for awhile and she laughed and informed me that I was Jewish. I’ve also had Conservatives tell me that I’m a Christian because my mother was baptized Catholic. Never mind that I wasn’t baptized or raised Christian in any sense of the word. Okay then. With Orthodox, it’s a different story. My Orthodox friends have all been delightful people, but I have no doubt they don’t think of me as Jewish. (One of them, upon realizing I have patrilineal descent, shrieked “you have to convert!” I think I took a step backwards, I was so startled.) A few years ago I threw up my hands regarding the whole thing. I’m an atheist of mixed ancestry. I still like being a Jew, though. ETA: This is going to sound like a jerkish thing to say, but I think part of the reason Orthodox tend not to take me seriously as a Jew is that I don’t _look_ like a Jew. I take after my mom, who’s of Irish descent. If I looked like my dad, I would have trouble convincing people I’m _not_ a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/33 "2009-10-12T20:24:36Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Jewish Dopers: what in your experience is the attitude in your community to patrilineal Jews who ‘convert’? I’ve felt remarkably unwelcome in every Conservative or Orthodox synagogue when I mentioned that only my father was Jewish (I wasn’t violating any rules like receiving an aliyah or anything). According to halacha (Jewish law), Jewish descent is matrilineal, not patrilineal. I am orthodox and not familiar with conservative Jewish practice, but I don’t think they recognize patrilineal descent either. The reform Jews do recognize patrlineal Jews as Jewish. According to halacha, patrilineal Jews would have to go through the same conversion process as any other non-Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/34 "2009-10-12T20:26:11Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > Yeah, Egalitarian Conservative is much more common now than the more Traditional. > > I’ve considered ‘converting’ to Judaism before (I was raised [Reconstructionist] Jewish, and my father is Jewish) and I may do it some day. I feel most comfortable in a Conservative service, but I am of course not able to fully participate there. > > Jewish Dopers: what in your experience is the attitude in your community to patrilineal Jews who ‘convert’? I’ve felt remarkably unwelcome in every Conservative or Orthodox synagogue when I mentioned that only my father was Jewish (I wasn’t violating any rules like receiving an aliyah or anything). Many Reform Jews accept Patrilinial Jews as “Jews” without conversion. That being said, any Jew making someone feel uncomfortable about their status is IMHO being extremely rude and not acting in the proper Jewish tradition. After all, Jewish or not you are there because you are interested. It is a mitzvah to welcome people to the synagogue, no matter who their parents are. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/35 "2009-10-12T20:33:11Z")
**Shinna** , I know that. I was asking more what the communities think of such ‘patrilineal’ Jews, either whilst considering or after conversion. I certainly know what they think of me in my current, unconverted state! Perversely, one of the reasons I’ve held off on pursuing conversion is because I haven’t appreciated the denial of my already-existing Jewishness I have experienced. My great-grandmother wasn’t killed in an anti-Jewish pogrom any less because her (atheist but proudly Jewish) grandson would go onto marry outside the faith. I understand the religious rules, and indeed follow them as much or more as the other Conservative Jews I know, but the refusal to understand that I already feel Jewish is what I struggle the most with. It feels like it would be a lie to ‘convert’ to a religion that I already feel like is my religion. Maybe that doesn’t make sense, but hey, there it is. **Kyla** , thanks for sharing! I’m sure you’re right that it’s about the individuals involved. I was most shocked though when a professor I liked, who was a big fan of the bacon cheeseburger, recoiled when I ‘admitted’ that my mother wasn’t Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/36 "2009-10-12T20:38:11Z")
> [@Shinna Minna Ma](#): > > I am orthodox and not familiar with conservative Jewish practice, but I don’t think they recognize patrilineal descent either. We don’t. Of course, if someone who has a Jewish father converts, they should be treated like anyone else who converts, which is to say like any other Jew. > [@Malthus](#): > > That being said, any Jew making someone feel uncomfortable about their status is IMHO being extremely rude and not acting in the proper Jewish tradition. It is extremely rude, and it is specifically against Jewish Law to treat someone that way. It’s also not acceptable to talk about whether or not someone is a convert behind their back- that’s the sin of [lashon hara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara). > [@Kyla](#): > > ETA: This is going to sound like a jerkish thing to say, but I think part of the reason Orthodox tend not to take me seriously as a Jew is that I don’t look like a Jew. And I am aware that I have fewer problems than a lot of converts, because I can “pass”, so to speak. You wouldn’t know from looking at me that I wasn’t born Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/37 "2009-10-12T20:38:55Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > **Daphne** , I’m in the same boat, and IME it has to do with individuals more than any other aspect. For awhile I was considering converting Conservative and went and talked to the rabbi of my local shul (where I was actually teaching Hebrew school at the time). She told me that in my situation, it was really a formality and I didn’t need to take any classes or anything. We chatted for awhile and she laughed and informed me that I was Jewish. > > I’ve also had Conservatives tell me that I’m a Christian because my mother was baptized Catholic. Never mind that I wasn’t baptized or raised Christian in any sense of the word. Okay then. > > With Orthodox, it’s a different story. My Orthodox friends have all been delightful people, but I have no doubt they don’t think of me as Jewish. (One of them, upon realizing I have patrilineal descent, shrieked “you have to convert!” I think I took a step backwards, I was so startled.) > > A few years ago I threw up my hands regarding the whole thing. I’m an atheist of mixed ancestry. > > I still like being a Jew, though. > > ETA: This is going to sound like a jerkish thing to say, but I think part of the reason Orthodox tend not to take me seriously as a Jew is that I don’t _look_ like a Jew. I take after my mom, who’s of Irish descent. If I looked like my dad, I would have trouble convincing people I’m _not_ a Jew. Heh, atheist has little to do with it. I’m an atheist (well, philosophically interested in pantheism) and a descendant of three generations of atheists … dosen’t stop me from being Jewish. Most Jews I know aren’t all that interested in the actual belief in a literal God (of course that probably says as much about who I know as about the religion …). It has always struck me that Judaism is an extreme example of the ability of humans to spin cultural gold out of the most unprepossessing straw. The older bits of the Bible are in essence the religious and ethical code of a most primitive and barbarian tribe of violent desert nomads; yet from this beginning comes a most rich and evolving moral and social culture … ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/38 "2009-10-12T20:39:57Z")
Kyla, me too! I’m blonde and blue-eyed. At my undergrad Hillel, I was the only blonde. That got me more looks (not nice ones either) than I could believe. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/39 "2009-10-12T20:53:26Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Most Jews I know aren’t all that interested in the actual belief in a literal God If the OP takes a conversion class, they’ll probably spend a lot more class time talking about holidays, food, and lifecycle events like weddings than they will talking about God. That’s one of the ways Judaism is so different from Christianity- in Judaism, what you do or don’t do matters more than what you do or don’t believe. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411/40 "2009-10-12T20:56:09Z")
As long as you’re not just doing it for the jokes, then go ahead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-contemplating-converting-to-judaism/513411.md?page=3)