# I am disappoint (book sales) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 17, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912 "2015-04-17T14:42:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/81 "2015-04-22T23:54:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With proper typesetting, design, etc., is the raw artwork on my covers salvageable, in your opinion? I think so. It needs some brightening and saturation in places, and a vignette, to help draw focus. I’d try a frame of some kind, maybe, and then pick the perfect font for it. I could see it reaching a 6.5 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/82 "2015-04-23T00:09:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d be very pleased with either of those numbers at this point. Mine are a lot lower – less than 100. Hey, I bought a copy. What more could you want? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/83 "2015-04-23T00:12:13Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Hey, I bought a copy. What more could you want? Nothing. My task is complete. **asterion** bought a copy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/84 "2015-04-23T12:57:38Z")
Copy bought here! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/85 "2015-04-23T13:29:54Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Copy bought here! Wonderful! I hope you enjoy it! In case anyone missed **Broomstick** ’s very gracious review, here it is: > [@My new novel, homage/satire/love-letter to ASOIAF/Game of Thrones/internet-fandom is out!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/my-new-novel-homage-satire-love-letter-to-asoiaf-game-of-thrones-internet-fandom-is-out/713940/32): > > And… at long last, here is my review of the book, as promised. In keeping with feedback that authors should _get_ feedback, if anyone notes spelling or grammar goofs in this let me know so when I post it to Amazon I don’t look like a complete idiot. 😃 > > > [@](#): > > > > Disclaimer: Mr. Crawford did provide me with a copy of this book in return for an honest review. > > > > This book is, at heart, a satire of the massive epic fantasy and the fandom around such epics but it’s a satire written by someone who clearly loves the genre. This is not the same sort of book as Crawford’s first, so those familiar with Sailor of the Skysea should not expect similar. This is, in fact, a high fantasy novel with swords and sorcery…well, half of it is. Other reviewers have mentioned the core aspect of people from our world traveling to a fantasy world so I won’t rehash that here. > > > > Although it satirizes lengthy epic fantasy it is emphatically not one itself. The use of wiki-entries to reference the epic fantasy the action centers on allows us to get information on the tangled plot of the “fictional” universe, and I found it comparable to the use of letters between characters seen in some types of older novels but updated for current times. If you like massive epics with highly involved plots you should know this is emphatically not such a story, the main plot is much more straightforward, while there is character development it’s not massive in nature, and it’s a much lighter read than Game of Thrones which is clearly referred to, albeit indirectly. If you prefer the massive epics this may not be for you. If you prefer a lighter read you might well enjoy this novel more than a lengthy series. > > > > One of the running themes are the difference between reading about exciting adventures and actually experiencing them – what makes a novel interesting and exciting is often the sort of event you would probably want to avoid directly experiencing yourself. Another theme is the responsibility of the author towards his creation as well as the people paying him to write it. A third theme is the conflict between authors and publishers which deals with some of the realities fans usually don’t think about or even know about, such as rights, contracts, creative control, and ghostwriters. > > > > There are some weaknesses in the novel, which I must mention to make this an honest review. The first chapter or two aren’t a good representative of the rest of the story, which means if you’re browsing them as a free sample to determine if you like the book or not you may be disappointed by the rest of it… or maybe pleasantly surprised as I think Mr. Crawford hits his best stride several chapters in. Some of the characterizations and descriptions are a bit superficial even in the context of a light read. The magical system in the fantasy universe isn’t very well defined, which may or may not be a weakness depending on how you feel about such things. Sed (the main character and your point of view) knows pretty much nothing about magic other than how to manipulate an item after instruction, so it’s the viewpoint of an outsider to the system. Structurally, the first couple chapters and the wiki entries are awkward at points, although that did not spoil my overall enjoyment of the story it might be an obstacle to some readers. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/86 "2015-04-23T15:58:52Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I think so. It needs some brightening and saturation in places, and a vignette, to help draw focus. I’d try a frame of some kind, maybe, and then pick the perfect font for it. I could see it reaching a 6.5 🙂 Well my main beef with the cover art, aside from the poor typography, was the fact that this guy has this empty desk that stretches on forever and a big empty floor hanging out for the bottom fifth of the book cover. His “real world” room has barely anything of notice in it thanks to the large curtain (? is that what it is?) in back. Compare that to the nice well-rendered medieval room. I would’ve focused in closer on the fellow at the table if nothing else. That isn’t to say that this is the best general layout for the cover ever, but I’m working with what you have rather than suggesting you totally redo it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/87 "2015-04-24T00:35:46Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Well my main beef with the cover art, aside from the poor typography, was the fact that this guy has this empty desk that stretches on forever and a big empty floor hanging out for the bottom fifth of the book cover. I agree. The real-world room needs more stuff, or needs to be mostly cropped out. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/88 "2015-04-24T11:22:18Z")
Actually, the magical Na-Kir figurine standing on the big empty floor under the table like one of those painted miniature figures gamers use would be a nice addition and tie in to the story. Well, it would have to be oversized to be seen, but some crossover artifacts - our items in the fantasy realm, their items on ours - would help with the empty spaces and show more of the cross-over. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/89 "2015-04-24T11:26:39Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, the magical Na-Kir figurine standing on the big empty floor under the table like one of those painted miniature figures gamers use would be a nice addition and tie in to the story. Well, it would have to be oversized to be seen, but some crossover artifacts - our items in the fantasy realm, their items on ours - would help with the empty spaces and show more of the cross-over. That’s a really good idea… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/90 "2015-04-24T12:08:56Z")
Chalk it up to my art degree, a little experience in commercial graphics, and some beta-reading experience. (Yes, that is a backdoor way of saying I’m willing to beta-read for you in the future. Looking back on what I’ve published, I wish I’d had some beta-readers myself) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/91 "2015-04-24T12:12:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Chalk it up to my art degree, a little experience in commercial graphics, and some beta-reading experience. > > (Yes, that is a backdoor way of saying I’m willing to beta-read for you in the future. Looking back on what I’ve published, I wish I’d had some beta-readers myself) I’ll take you up on that for my next book. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Umbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Umbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbridge)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/92 "2015-04-24T13:38:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > My second book (it’s been out for about 7 weeks) hasn’t caught on like I hoped it would. I’ve mostly marketed (if you could call it that) on social media and various message boards (including this one!). The first book didn’t catch on in terms of sales either, but I thought this second one was a lot better and would be much more attractive to potential readers (fantasy-satire and homage to the genre in general and a very popular series in particular). > > So I’m a little sad and frustrated. Still writing a third book, though. I resolve to continue to write, even if no one buys my books. Well, wherever you go in life, you will face competition. Competition is a good thing. It may help you figure out a way to research on the public interest and improve your writing. Many authors work with literary agents to sell a book, at the cost of profits. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/93 "2015-04-24T18:44:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > With proper typesetting, design, etc., is the raw artwork on my covers salvageable, in your opinion? Just a few thoughts and data points from someone who’s getting more familiar with the self-publishing process. Maybe they’ll help, maybe not. Your cover reminds me a bit of my first cover for one of my books (which I’ve since pulled down and am reworking as the second book in my series). It was done by a friend who’s a professional artist. I love it. It’s nicely done, attractive, and she did what I asked her to. The readers didn’t like it. My books are urban fantasy. There’s a certain “style” to urban fantasy, and my first cover didn’t hit it. I think that’s your problem with your cover: objectively, it’s nicely done. The art is good. But like others have commented, it does proclaim “self published” fairly loudly, both by the art style and the typography. The other thing is, you’re trying to attract Game of Thrones/ASOIAF fans. Now, I’m not familiar with either of those (have neither seen nor read them) but there is nothing about your cover that suggests that to me. When I think of them, I think of swords, and dragons, and that big scary-looking chair. Not a guy sitting at a table writing. You say it’s a parody of GoT? Make me see that! Put your modern-day author in that chair (suitably altered so you won’t get in copyright trouble)! Or something else that will clearly tell the reader that’s what it is. You’ve literally got a couple of seconds to grab readers, and obviously your current cover isn’t doing it. When I relaunched my series, I went to a pro cover designer. He didn’t do original art, but he’s really good at compositing stock images so they don’t _look_ like stock images, and adding his own effects to the cover. And more importantly, he’s got experience knowing what kinds of covers sell in what kinds of genres. You don’t use the same cover for a romance and a sci-fi thriller. You have to hit the things that your readers expect to see. Being unique isn’t as important as being _identifiable_ in that two or three seconds you’ve got to hook them. I’m actually doing fairly well with my new book–way better than I expected to. I keep thinking I’ll wake up and the bubble will have burst and I’ll be back down to selling 1 or 2 books a day, but so far it hasn’t. I think the things that have done it for me are a pro cover, a pro editor, and making a strong effort to get the word out about my book. After being out for about a month, I have made back the money I spent on my artist, my editor, and my promotion person. Since that was my goal, I consider that a win. Anything else on top of that is a nice extra. I hope this is helpful. I know I gave you some advice before about Twitter, but I didn’t really think about cover design until the others mentioned it. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/94 "2015-04-24T18:49:55Z")
Thanks for the advice, **Infovore** , and congrats on your success! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/95 "2015-04-24T19:41:19Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Do join a critique group. Join one that meets in person, reads and comments. Twenty years ago a friend joined such a group - today, anyone who stuck with it has multiple books in print and an editor and is making a living. In part because they taught each other. In part because they stuck with it learning their craft. And in part because when one person started selling books, they were able to create introductions for the other people in the writers circle. Critique groups are very good, but they are even better if at least one person in it already has some very good skills. I know of one where all the participants made the same mistakes and they tend to reenforce each others problems. Even better is when one member can explain why things that don’t work don’t work. They are still better than not being in one, but not all critique groups are created equal. ---
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/96 "2015-04-24T20:40:05Z")
I want to see that cover, Infovore, and to hear more about what you’ve done to promote your book. Also, are you still within the “magic” first 30 days after publication, and if not, was there a noticeable drop in sales once you moved out of it? ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/97 "2015-04-24T20:46:35Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > I want to see that cover, Infovore, and to hear more about what you’ve done to promote your book. Also, are you still within the “magic” first 30 days after publication, and if not, was there a noticeable drop in sales once you moved out of it? I don’t want to hijack **iiandyiiii** ’s thread, so just quick: my Amazon page is [here](http://www.amazon.com/Stone-Hard-Place-Alastair-Chronicles-ebook/dp/B00UGBEQYY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8). The book went on sale March 16, so it’s about a week after the 30 days, but it didn’t really start selling until I got on Twitter and started promoting it, which was around the end of March. Since then it’s been selling steadily, though the numbers have dropped since the initial jump. What’s giving me more trouble is getting reviews. I’ve gotten some good ones, but I need to figure out how to get more. I think I need to start giving away copies for honest reviews (haven’t done much of that yet). I’m told that Bookbub is the holy grail of getting your book noticed, but they’re extremely picky about what they feature and one of the things they want is lots of reviews. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/98 "2015-04-25T15:52:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Critique groups are very good, but they are even better if at least one person in it already has some very good skills. I know of one where all the participants made the same mistakes and they tend to reenforce each others problems. Even better is when one member can explain why things that don’t work don’t work. > They are still better than not being in one, but not all critique groups are created equal. It also helps if your critique group can occasionally get the attention of someone published. This one had some older, established authors that weren’t part of the group, but were friends of friends (or just friends) willing to read some chapters and get things moving. And that is part of being part of a community. Spending time at conventions, meeting people, going to readings. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/99 "2015-04-25T16:15:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > It also helps if your critique group can occasionally get the attention of someone published. This one had some older, established authors that weren’t part of the group, but were friends of friends (or just friends) willing to read some chapters and get things moving. > > And that is part of being part of a community. Spending time at conventions, meeting people, going to readings. Yeah, that’s another good thought–if there are any geeky conventions in your area (sci-fi, gaming, etc.) consider getting a table in the dealer’s room (or splitting one with another author). You can sell your books there (again, play up the GoT connection) but also collect email addresses for a mailing list so you can send out more info. I don’t know how effective this is for selling books (I haven’t done it yet–waiting to get a couple more books in the series out there first) but it’s good for meeting people, getting your name out, and connecting with the geek community. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912/100 "2015-04-27T11:19:45Z")
Thanks to all of the thoughtful feedback, and with the expert help of Doper **GuanoLad** (a great contact for design!), the cover for my book has been redesigned – see it [here](http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U2L6SU8/). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-disappoint-book-sales/717912.md?page=6)