# "I am glad to see one real American here" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 10, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268 "2017-08-10T18:11:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/21 "2017-08-11T03:33:13Z")
I know very little about Robert E. Lee besides the fact that he took up arms against the lawfully elected government of the United States and that his lands were confiscated to provide a final resting place for those who fell in defense of the Republic, but I note that his Wiki page–which I presume to be a hotly contested space between pro and anti-Lee factions–mentions nothing about his feeling in re Native Americans. Grant, on the other hand, had as president a well documented, not always consistent or effective, but generally positive set of policies toward Native Americans. This story seems unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/22 "2017-08-11T03:46:29Z")
Trying to stick as closely as possible to the story: the context as given in Parker’s biography suggests heavily that Lee did not consider the Northerners to be “real” Americans. The history of the CSA overwhelmingly involves the conviction among Southerners that they were the true descendants of the Founding Fathers and their values, while the mercantile, urban, industrial North had abandoned those principles. From that perspective, it would seem totally in character for Lee to mutter a snide comment that an Indian was more of a real American than the Northerners in the room. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/23 "2017-08-11T03:51:34Z")
I’m no fan of Lee for the reason **TSBG** mentions, but I always took the story - if true - to be a reflection of Lee simply being old-school courtly towards a Native American. For all his other faults, Lee was, by all accounts, very courteous to those around him. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/24 "2017-08-11T04:00:35Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’m no fan of Lee for the reason **TSBG** mentions, but I always took the story - if true - to be a reflection of Lee simply being old-school courtly towards a Native American. For all his other faults, Lee was, by all accounts, very courteous to those around him. Even if we presume that is the general case with Lee’s behavior, he took this opportunity to do a backhanded discourtesy to Grant–was at his worst in defeat. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/25 "2017-08-11T04:02:21Z")
nm, answered before reading mod note. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/26 "2017-08-11T14:19:12Z")
As a non-American and therefore able to be completely objective, I have two comments. 1. Anything in a ‘standard biography’ from 1919 would, to historians, be somewht suspect. It was the great age of hagiography and the whiggish back-casting of history to make it fit the present. I may be wrong, but it sounds like something that friends of the General wanted him to have had said. 2. It sounds like a sledge aimed at everyone in Parker’s party, akin to loudly saying ‘Hi, nice to meet a real non-scumbag’, while shaking his hand and staring at everyone else. I wouldnt read any affection for native Americans into it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/27 "2017-08-11T14:37:38Z")
Does anyone know if the sentiment that Native Americans are the “real” Americans appears prior to the Twentieth Century? I’m not saying it doesn’t. I just don’t know either way. It does seem like something Jefferson might have expressed. > [@Banksiaman](#): > > I may be wrong, but it sounds like something that friends of the General wanted him to have had said. I agree with your skepticism about the authenticity of a quote appearing in a 1919 family biography. But it was a biography of Parker, not Lee, written by Parker’s descendants citing witnesses from Parker’s family. Why would they would have wanted to put these words in Robert E. Lee’s mouth, especially given how ambiguous they are? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/28 "2017-08-11T14:45:52Z")
Looking at the etymology, it looks like “Americans” probably had a dual meaning in 1865, having relatively recently come to denote European-descended people living in the US but having a longer lineage of meaning indigenous people living on the continent. So I guess it’s not much of a long-shot to regard it as a kind of pun, half-denigrating the Northerners in the room and giving a partial courtesy to Parker. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/29 "2017-08-11T14:48:25Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > But it was a biography of Parker, not Lee, written by Parker’s descendants citing witnesses from Parker’s family. Why would they would have wanted to put these words in Robert E. Lee’s mouth, especially given how ambiguous they are? RP, thanks for setting me straight - I’d misread that as being Lee’s bio. I think the caution still stands but how will we ever know? A good historian notes the quote, notes the doubt, acknowledges its retrospectve aptness and moves on. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/30 "2017-08-11T14:49:46Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > As a non-American and therefore able to be completely objective, I have two comments. > > 1. Anything in a ‘standard biography’ from 1919 would, to historians, be somewht suspect. It was the great age of hagiography and the whiggish back-casting of history to make it fit the present. I may be wrong, but it sounds like something that friends of the General wanted him to have had said. > > 2. It sounds like a sledge aimed at everyone in Parker’s party, akin to loudly saying ‘Hi, nice to meet a real non-scumbag’, while shaking his hand and staring at everyone else. I wouldnt read any affection for native Americans into it. Not only wasn’t it friends of the general, but friends of Parker, but the book makes it clear that the comment was private and not overheard by anybody else in the room. The text is right there in post #6. It really would help if you read it first. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/31 "2017-08-11T14:57:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > DI agree with your skepticism about the authenticity of a quote appearing in a 1919 family biography. > > But it was a biography of Parker, not Lee, written by Parker’s descendants citing witnesses from Parker’s family. Why would they would have wanted to put these words in Robert E. Lee’s mouth, especially given how ambiguous they are? It sounds like something Parker’s family might also like. Partially because of the sentiment that Native Americans are the real Americans and partially because in 1919 Lee was a huge deal and Parker was pretty obscure, so it had some celebrity cachet. But even if they weren’t into Lee specifically, it’s possible that Lee said something vaguely similar to Parker, and over the years of family retelling it morphed into that version. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268/32 "2017-08-11T16:54:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Not only wasn’t it friends of the general, but friends of Parker, but the book makes it clear that the comment was private and not overheard by anybody else in the room. That it was a private side remark is what makes is reasonably believable to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-glad-to-see-one-real-american-here/793268.md?page=1)