# I am in despair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521 "2002-11-06T07:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/181 "2002-11-12T08:20:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Aha! Got you, Diogenes! He did not fabricate a non-existent report! He merely used that non-existent report as proof! > > We will, of course, expect an abject apology and retraction. Yes, Lucy, it was a redundant statement and i knew it as soon as I hit submit. I was hoping nobody would call me on it. Let’s just say he CITED a non-existent report. Scylla, are you FER it or are you AGIN it? It’s kind of disingenuous to say that you support it but that you don’t want it. It’s a semantic nitpick at best. And you really haven’t answered the questions about North Korea, et al. Why is Iraq number one on the hit list when they do not even break the top five on the danger list? North Korea, Iran, China, Pakistan and Lybia are all more worrisome than Saddam at the moment. (Pakistan because they have da Bomb and they think we’re a bunch of tools, Lybia because they run some of the world’s finest terrorism schools) Shouldn’t we prioritize by the level of immediate danger to the US? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/182 "2002-11-12T08:40:47Z")
I think it’s fairly obvious that some folks are operating on “George said it, I believe it, that settles it.” ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/183 "2002-11-12T08:41:58Z")
Stoid: > [@](#): > > \*\*But one other tiny little thing… the Dems would never have come up with this bullshit on their own. They were just doing their usual nauseating little submissive crap. \*\* [It’s no fun when you make it this easy.](http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020916-73474262.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/184 "2002-11-12T11:32:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\* > > And you really haven’t answered the questions about North Korea, et al. Why is Iraq number one on the hit list when they do not even break the top five on the danger list? North Korea, Iran, China, Pakistan and Lybia are all more worrisome than Saddam at the moment. \*\* Well, I’ll give it a try. If a country states they are going to do something, then they better be able to. In Iraq’s case, we know we can do it, and they are already in violation of UN resolutions. North Korea - Realistically, what can we do? We can’t isolate them further unless we can talk China into cutting off trade. We really can’t go to war unless your willing to write off possibly millions of South Koreans. Iran - IMO the best course with them is engagement, not isolation. From what I’ve read, the “middle class” & moderates want closer ties to the U.S. China - Once again, what could we do. Taking them on would make WWII look like a warm up bout. Cutting off trade wouldn’t do any good and would probably be counterproductive. Their economy is already shifting toward free market. IMO (once again) just leave them alone and they will continue to shift more free market & hopefully, toward democracy. Pakistan - IMO we never should have forgave them (or India) for developing nukes. It would have been real tough or impossible to go after Afganistan without their help though. Lybia - I don’t know. Are they still big time in the terrorist game? Haven’t heard much from them in a while. If they are then maybe they should be next on the list. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/185 "2002-11-12T13:30:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator, in response to another poster’s opinion on Saddam’s motivations \* > \*\*By what source of divination do you peer into Saddam’s mind? > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator, in response to my request for an explanation of Bush’s motivations \* > \*\* I mean, I don’t really have a cite “no big deal”, as such. Just sort of surmised it, by the fact that he knew about it … > So, I guess I sort of assumed… \*\* So when someone says that Saddam is likely to do in the future what he has done in the past, this is “divination”. When you make up quotes and attribute them to others, this is “surmise”. I am not sure of what your other point is. Are you in favor of war with North Korea? Or are you against war with North Korea because they have the bomb? If so, why do you want to wait for Iraq to develop the bomb before we act? Or are some people operating on “George said it, I am against it, that settles it”? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/186 "2002-11-12T14:32:05Z")
I am for assuring that Iraq does not and cannot posess weapons of mass destruction, and I support the the slow and deliberate escalation of efforts both diplomatic and military to ensure that goal is reached. Ultimately, allowing him to operate unfettered is more dangerous and likely to cost more lives than ensuring the peace through temporary force. Hopefully though, it won’t come to that. Hopefully Saddam will acquiesce. If he doesn’t the cost of lives to force him to is on his shoulders, not ours. That’s not a wish for war. It’s a wish for a safer world. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/187 "2002-11-12T15:03:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > \*\*It is not at all reasonable to assume he’ll come after us. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Has he ever come after us before? No. He went after Kuwait, we smacked him down, he’s had his tail between his legs ever since. > > \*\* I don’t think ‘tail between his legs’ is his posture at all. Yeah, he got smacked. But he’s still there, and still in power. He had terms of a cease-fire, and has refused to live up to them. Seems rather proud of it. I don’t think he believes we’ll do anything about it. I don’t want a war. I want the arms inspectors to go in and do their jobs. If he lets them in, and doesn’t try to hide stuff from them, and the inspectors say “He’s not building weapons of mass destruction”, then I’ll be happy as a clam and ready to live in peace. Otherwise, he gets his ass kicked. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/188 "2002-11-12T16:00:06Z")
As an old politician here used to say, “Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.” Sure we all want a safer world. But it won’t come without a cost. I am not at all confident that our superscyllious friend accepts that. Another saying, common in my business, is “Hope is not a strategy.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/189 "2002-11-12T17:34:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure we all want a safer world. But it won’t come without a cost. I am not at all confident that our superscyllious friend accepts that. Oh, you mean people die in war? You mean like my grandfather? Or my father’s brother? Or like my father almost did? Gee whiz. No, I didn’t understand that. Thank you so much for climbing up on your high horse and pontificating that fact sanctimoniously, you insufferable moron. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/190 "2002-11-12T19:08:58Z")
Stoid again: > [@](#): > > \*\*no, I don’t think Israel has a damn thing to worry about from Iraq. Again…why? He lobbed missiles at them while we were bombing him… he aint’ done squat since, and Iraq has no real beef with Israel. \*\* One of the most stunning statements I’ve ever read here. “That woman doesn’t need to worry about the serial rapist living next door. Because after that one time he raped her, he hasn’t raped her since.” And it’s already been adequately pointed out to you how completely wrong you are on the “no beef with Israel” portion of your tripe. You’re at least partially correct - Saddam _should_ have no beef with Israel. As should all of the other Jew-hating countries in the Middle East hell-bent on Israel’s destruction. elucidator: > [@](#): > > \*\*By what source of divination do you peer into Saddam’s mind? Scrying by entrails? Miss Cleo? Let’s face reality, you don’t know what he’s going to do any more than I do. \*\* [www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect3.html](http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect3.html) > [@](#): > > ## Saddam Hussein’s Development of Weapons of Mass Destruction > > - In 2001, an Iraqi defector, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, said he had visited twenty secret facilities for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Mr. Saeed, a civil engineer, supported his claims with stacks of Iraqi government contracts, complete with technical specifications. Mr. Saeed said Iraq used companies to purchase equipment with the blessing of the United Nations - and then secretly used the equipment for their weapons programs. > > - Iraq admitted to producing biological agents, and after the 1995 defection of a senior Iraqi official, Iraq admitted to the weaponization of thousands of liters of anthrax, botulinim toxin, and aflatoxin for use with Scud warheads, aerial bombs and aircraft. > > - United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) experts concluded that Iraq’s declarations on biological agents vastly understated the extent of its program, and that Iraq actually produced two to four times the amount of most agents, including anthrax and botulinim toxin, than it had declared. > > - UNSCOM reported to the UN Security Council in April 1995 that Iraq had concealed its biological weapons program and had failed to account for 3 tons of growth material for biological agents. > > - The Department of Defense reported in January 2001 that Iraq has continued to work on its weapons programs, including converting L-29 jet trainer aircraft for potential vehicles for the delivery of chemical or biological weapons. > > - The al-Dawrah Foot and Mouth Disease Vaccine Facility is one of two known biocontainment level-three facilities in Iraq that have an extensive air handling and filtering system. Iraq has admitted that this was a biological weapons facility. In 2001, Iraq announced that it would begin renovating the plant without UN approval, ostensibly to produce vaccines that it could more easily and more quickly import through the UN. > > - Saddam Hussein continues its attempts to procure mobile biological weapons laboratories that could be used for further research and development. > Chemical Weapons > > - Saddam Hussein launched a large-scale chemical weapons attack against Iraq’s Kurdish population in the late 1980s, killing thousands. On at least 10 occasions, Saddam Hussein’s military forces have attacked Iranian and Kurdish targets with combinations of mustard gas and nerve agents through the use of aerial bombs, 122-millimeter rockets, and conventional artillery shells. Saddam Hussein continues his efforts to develop chemical weapons: > > - Gaps identified by UNSCOM in Iraqi accounting and current production capabilities strongly suggest that Iraq maintains stockpiles of chemical agents, probably VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard. > > - Iraq has not accounted for hundreds of tons of chemical precursors and tens of thousands of unfilled munitions, including Scud variant missile warheads. > > - Iraq has not accounted for at least 15,000 artillery rockets that in the past were its preferred vehicle for delivering nerve agents, nor has it accounted for about 550 artillery shells filled with mustard agent. > > - Iraq continues to rebuild and expand dual-use infrastructure that it could quickly divert to chemical weapons production, such as chlorine and phenol plants. > > - Iraq is seeking to purchase chemical weapons agent precursors and applicable production equipment, and is making an effort to hide activities at the Fallujah plant, which was one of Iraq’s chemical weapons production facilities before the Gulf War. > > - At Fallujah and three other plants, Iraq now has chlorine production capacity far higher than any civilian need for water treatment, and the evidence indicates that some of its chlorine imports are being diverted for military purposes. > Nuclear Weapons > > - Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program before the Gulf War and continues his work to develop a nuclear weapon: > > - A new report released on September 9, 2002 from the International Institute for Strategic Studies - an independent research organization - concludes that Saddam Hussein could build a nuclear bomb within months if he were able to obtain fissile material. > > - Iraq has stepped up its quest for nuclear weapons and has embarked on a worldwide hunt for materials to make an atomic bomb. In the last 14 months, Iraq has sought to buy thousands of specially designed aluminum tubes which officials believe were intended as components of centrifuges to enrich uranium. > > - Iraq has withheld documentation relevant to its past nuclear program, including data about enrichment techniques, foreign procurement, weapons design, experimental data, and technical documents. > > \*Iraq still has the technical expertise and some of the infrastructure needed to pursue its goal of building a nuclear weapon. > > - Saddam Hussein has repeatedly met with his nuclear scientists over the past two years, signaling his continued interest in developing his nuclear program. > Ballistic Missiles > > - Iraq is believed to be developing ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers - as prohibited by the UN Security Council Resolution 687. > > - Discrepancies identified by UNSCOM in Saddam Hussein’s declarations suggest that Iraq retains a small force of Scud-type missiles and an undetermined number of launchers and warheads. > > - Iraq continues work on the al-Samoud liquid propellant short-range missile (which can fly beyond the allowed 150 kilometers). The al-Samoud and the solid propellant Ababil-100 appeared in a military parade in Baghdad on December 31, 2000, suggesting that both systems are nearing operational deployment. > > - The al-Rafah-North facility is Iraq’s principal site for testing liquid propellant missile engines. Iraq has been building a new, larger test stand there that is clearly intended for testing prohibited longer-range missile engines. > > - At their al-Mamoun facility, the Iraqis have rebuilt structures that had been dismantled by UNSCOM that were originally designed to manufacture solid propellant motors for the Badr-2000 missile program. So, trust elucidator. Iraq is not a threat to the USA, because it hasn’t done anything to the USA yet. And it’s not a threat to the Middle East, particularly Israel, and the United States’ interests there, because it hasn’t done anything - well, in 11 years. And on Sept. 10, 2001, several thousands of occupants of the World Trade Center were completely safe from having their lives snuffed out in a terrorist attack that brought the two towers down, because it had never been done before. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/191 "2002-11-12T19:41:59Z")
“[…]and Iraq has no real beef with Israel.” Lord knows that wouldn’t be kosher. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/192 "2002-11-12T23:42:03Z")
**Scylla** please disabuse yourself of the notion that your family history and/or its suffering has the slightest bearing on the matter. A cancer victim does not become an oncologist. Further, your moral sleight of hand of placing all responsibility on Saddam’s shoulders should he fail to accede to our demands is entirely too facile. **Elvis** point is no more sanctimonious than your claim to special expertise, and by no stretch makes him worthy of such a slur as you delivered. One had wished that you were getting beyond that sort of thing. **Elvis** is neither sanctimonious or a moron. You are not a moron. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/193 "2002-11-13T00:36:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > **Let’s face reality: If Iraq’s leadership could launch a successful terrorist attack against the United States, there’s a decent chance they would, sooner or later.** Here’s some evidence that **lucwarm** may be right: [http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/iraq\_surveillance021112.html](http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/iraq_surveillance021112.html) Monitoring naval bases in Spain and Bahrain, I can see, as Saddam knows he’s likely to be attacked, and wants to get an idea of just how close the attack is. But an embassy in Finland? The U.N. in NYC? Or the cemetary in the Phillipines where the U.S. Ambassador was to attend a Veteran’s Day Memorial service? These sound more like potential targets of terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/194 "2002-11-13T03:44:28Z")
**Milo** the quote you seem to be rebutting has to do with knowledge of what someone else is going to do. Short of psychic phenomena or voodoo, that is. You would rebut this with a list of assertions of weapons capabilities from the White House web site! Surely you understand that this is no more a rebuttal to my point that is Mrs. Bush’s grocery list. The question isn’t what or whether Goddam Hussein has weapons, the question is what will he do with them. For more than ten years, he has done nothing with them whatever. Yet Fearless Leader, and you, claim some special certainty, some prescience that he is just about to. He is a madman who cannot be deterred by the clear and obvious fact that an attack on America is suicide. And yet no attack has been made. This is a contradiction that neither you, nor he, has addressed in any meaningful way, other than to hint darkly the he is somehow connected with the horror of 9/11. The utter lack of any such evidence does not faze him, his certainty surpasseth all understanding, and any need for facts. Indeed, as recently reported, when the CIA reported this paucity of evidence, he instructed Rumsfeld to conduct another investigation. Presumably, this will have more agreeable results. Then he has the temerity to flaunt as irrefutable evidence (“I don’t know what more proof you need”) a report that did not even exist! Not only are we lied to, we are lied to on the presumption that we are too stupid to know the difference! To my dismay, recent evidence would indicate that he was right. If the case for imminent threat from Saddam bin Laden is so convincing, so irrefutable, why is it that lies and innuendo must be called upon to bolster it? We have also been presented with an expert witness as to the present state of nuclear arms development in Iraq from a man who has not set foot in that country in over seven years! Boiled down, here it is: we’ve been had. Conned, cozened, bamboozled, they’re peeing on our shoes and telling us its raining. And it worked. Lord help us, it worked. And so here we are. I truly believe that, barring a miracle, Fearless Leader will have his way. He has painted himself, and us, into a corner, nothing short of complete victory will suffice. I have little doubt of that, as well. And now I must hope that it is so, that the war is swift, brutal and short. I must hope that this pampered and priveleged pissant who thinks himself a Leader of Men will triumph, and return to bask in the glory of a grateful nation. I must hope that it is _thier_ soldiers who suffer and die, _thier_ children who are made orphans. And I heartily detest the men who have forced such a choice on me. Perhaps we should lay aside _E Pluribus Unum_, it is no longer as appropriate as _Oderint dum Metuant_: “Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.” ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/195 "2002-11-13T04:33:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\*Perhaps we should lay aside _E Pluribus Unum_, it is no longer as appropriate as _Oderint dum Metuant_: “Let them hate us, so long as they fear us.” \*\* Perhaps we should; it captures the sentiment exactly, and it’s about fucking time. Thanks **Elucidator!** ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/196 "2002-11-13T05:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\* > > Uhhhh, yeah. Lucky you. Your country treats its women like shit, making them nothing more than property, and Zayed does nothing about this repression of half the population. > > That alone makes him lower than whaleshit. \*\* Uhhh guy? I think you’re thinking of Saudi, or maybe Iran. Down in the Emirates women drive, work at what they please, go to school, dress as they wish, etc etc. The women I know that live in the Emirates like the place. If you want to blast some place, pick Saudi. Regards. Testy ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/197 "2002-11-13T08:47:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*The question isn’t what or whether Goddam Hussein has weapons, the question is what will he do with them. For more than ten years, he has done nothing with them whatever. \*\* And there is one camp, as eloquated by you and Stoid, who say the fact that nothing’s been done in the past decade = no threat. There is another camp that feels that means nothing, when Hussein has showed he is pursuing, building, and hiding WOMD, and has shown a propensity in the relatively recent past to use them. That’s where the 9/11 connection comes in - that, in thread after thread, you seem unwilling or uncapable of grasping. Love him, hate him or whatever, 9/11 _clearly_ galvanized Bush. The point he’s made repeatedly since is to be preemptive against potential threats to America and American interests. Given the choice of giving barbarians the benefit of the doubt and the chance of thousands of American civilians again dead in massive piles of rubble, Bush (and most others) have chosen not to give the barbarian the benefit of the doubt. I’d like to see who’s on _your_ list as a greater foreign threat to the USA and US interests with weapons of mass destruction than Saddam. The Gulf War ended on promises by Saddam Hussein that he would do certain things. He never did. The treaty that ended a war was broken - never, ever complied with. What does that mean to you, if anything? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/198 "2002-11-13T12:22:06Z")
Higher on my list? Howzabout Osama bin Forgotten? You remember him, don’t you? Fearless Leaders Number One Priority? Who he wouldn’t rest until he got. Have you heard the name pass his lips in what? weeks? months? The guy who actually was responsible for 9/11. But no matter, it worked, vast numbers of Americans believe that Goddam Hussein is somehow connected to 9/11, evidence and facts don’t enter into it. He made unkept promises? Hell, who doesn’t. Nobody really cared for years. The promises were made to the UN, who were apparently quite content to let sleeping rabid dogs lie. Until the Man Who Fell Up decided that the situation was urgent, emergency, crisis. On Sept. 12 (“Because you don’t introduce a new product line in August”) our Wal-Mart Churchill stomped into the UN and started throwing our weight around. Remember the universal approval and applause? No? Perhaps you missed it? So did everyone else. Ah, yes, the _barbarians_! Fits the new Imperial mood precisely. Them against us. All who threaten us, all who _might_ threaten us. We’ve been had, **Milo** , in your case willingly. Elmer Fudd has morphed into Winston Churchill, and we will have war. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/199 "2002-11-13T13:07:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The question isn’t what or whether Goddam Hussein has weapons, the question is what will he do with them. For more than ten years, he has done nothing with them whatever. The Kurds would probably disagree with you. So would the pilots Saddam has fired upon. Are you that impervious to reality? You were arguing that North Korea is a threat. Why? They haven’t nuked anyone yet, so nothing should be done, by your “logic”. You seem almost deliberately obtuse. Is your hatred of Bush so deep that you are willing to reject reality to cling to it? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/200 "2002-11-13T13:55:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* On Sept. 12 (“Because you don’t introduce a new product line in August”) our Wal-Mart Churchill stomped into the UN and started throwing our weight around. Remember the universal approval and applause? No? Perhaps you missed it? So did everyone else. \*\* I believe our bargain-basement Paul Wellstone has forgotten about the unanimous resolution passed in the U.N. the other day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521.md?page=11)