# I am in despair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2002, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521 "2002-11-06T07:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/81 "2002-11-07T17:02:27Z")
What Sofa King said. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/82 "2002-11-07T18:41:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by In Conceivable \* > \*\* Rather then actually respond to any of the comments in the thread she started she comes up with “See? Toldja!”. I am not even sure what she told us that she is responding to. > > WTF? \*\* I \* was \* responding to one of the comments. I was responding to \*\* RickJay’s\*\* post directly above, which outlined the Satan-directed evils of the Republican party, which I thought was hilarious (I particularly enjoyed Lott gnawing on the Democratic child’s leg, \*\* Rickjay \*\* . Kudos!) and I have been reading it to friends and family for two days. We get on the phone, we commiserate, and then I read them Rickjay’s post to lighten the mood. My “See? Toldja!” I thought would have been easily understood. The brevity and the spelling were carefully chosen to convey the tone, and the location of my post indicated to what I referred (which also added to the tone-setting, since the post I referred to was humorous). I assumed it would have been easy to understand that the rest of the sentence was “…they were evil!” Seeing as that was the gist of my OP and all. Man, the way folks make ya work around here… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/83 "2002-11-07T18:55:32Z")
Wait, did \*\* Rickjay \*\* not write that? Was that an actual Onion article? Someone clarify. If it was \*\* Rickjay’s \*\* work, then the kudos stand. If it was an Onion lift, then as usual, kudos to the Onion. Oh, and more “What \*\* Sofa King \*\* said” I wish I could be as complacent in the belief that “it’s all gonna be ok, nothing ever changes, it’s all meaningless and reversible anyway”, and I hope that turns out to be true. But it won’t. Judges will be installed who will make rulings that reverberate for decades to come, laws will be passed that will make changes to the environment that will \*\* never \*\* be undone, and wars will be started that will take the lives of people that cannot just wake up when the Republicans are voted out. (Although someone floated the idea that the whole Iraq thing will quietly fade into the background until the next election, a possibility that is so extraordinarily horrible in it’s cynicism and calculation, well… ) That’s the big difference between the Dem agenda (that part of it that can be identified…believe me, I’m not happy with them!) and the Republican. What the Democrats want and might do really is relatively harmless, and very reversible. The worst that could happen is that it would cost money. What the Pubbies want to do (or some, we’ll see how many soon) runs far deeper and does far greater damage. War, environmental rape, destruction of civil liberties. Just for starters. And if the Dems controlled all three branches? What horrible things would happen that would be even close to that, folks? Raise your taxes to pay for some handout program to the old and sick? Oooo! Run for your lives! Bah. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/84 "2002-11-07T19:14:18Z")
Stoid: > [@](#): > > What the Pubbies want to do (or some, we’ll see how many soon) runs far deeper and does far greater damage. War, environmental rape, destruction of civil liberties. Just for starters. Oh yeah. This is the Republican platform. War, rape, and destruction. > [@](#): > > And if the Dems controlled all three branches? What horrible things would happen that would be even close to that, folks? Raise your taxes to pay for some handout program to the old and sick? Oooo! Run for your lives! So, your argument is that Democrats suck, but they don’t suck as much as the Republicans? > [@](#): > > What the Democrats want and might do really is relatively harmless, and very reversible. Ahh yes. The easy reform and reversibility of entitlements as demonstrated by Social Security, and Welfare. Could you possibly be any more wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/85 "2002-11-07T19:38:46Z")
I can clearly remember a time, **Stoid** when the Democrats controlled White House, House and Senate. 1977-1981. These were just hunky-dory times, too. Everybody was smiling and happy, running around without a care in the world. Unless, of course, you cared about the Soviet crushing of the Solidarity movement in Poland. Or home mortgage rates in the double digits. Or massive inflation. Or gas lines. You’re clearly too young to remember, as I do, responding to atrocities in Afghanistan in a way that did not bring a better government to these people. Do a little reading and you’ll see that the only thing we did was boycott the Moscow Olympics. Our military was so weakened by years of cutbacks that we couldn’t even have our helicopters fly unopposed over miles of empty desert without them crashing and our soldiers dying. Raise taxes to pay for a handout program? It happened, and the tax burden was so great as to completely cripple the economy. There are a lot of people who remember these times, as apparantly you don’t. I fear these genuine results of incompetence and wrongheadedness far more than your paranoid little fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/86 "2002-11-07T20:08:37Z")
Hey, I remember JFK’s funeral (vaguely), I marched for civil rights and I wept over the death of RFK and King. I remember plenty. I’m also living in the now and looking at tomorrow. You don’t see me complaining about Republicans because of Nixon, do you? Keep up, man. stoid ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/87 "2002-11-07T20:35:48Z")
I wonder how much partisan dissatisfaction is actually “I want the Dems back in control” and how much is “I want Clinton back in control” (or the hated Shrub out). I’m not overly troubled by differences between the Democratic platform and that of the Pubs. I don’t mind a split Congress. I’ll politely listen to Daschle with the intent to seriously embrace ways to find compromise between the working parties. But please don’t ask me to return to anything involving anyone in the Clinton or Gore families. Were Gore to be elected in '04, Stoid’s despair and literary critique would pale next to mine. I don’t mean this to be a straw man comment. Please don’t read it as so if I’ve misinterpreted a sentiment. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/88 "2002-11-07T21:12:16Z")
PS: The Democrats were responsible for the Soviet union crushing Poland’s Solidarity movement? Wow! Who knew that Leonid was taking his orders from the US House of Representatives! The things you learn on the Straight Dope… (And by the way, Solidarity came into being in 1980, and was “crushed” a year after Reagan took office. Just FYI) So, \*\* lieu, \*\* Gore would leave you in despair, eh? Porque? Taxes? Spending? His nefarious plans for prescription drugs for seniors a bullet you thank god every day you got to dodge? Can anyone offer up anything the Democrats in general have said, planned, legislated, platformed, stumped for, or otherwise supported in the last, say 20 years, that is deeply disturbing, frightening, and potentially long-lasting or irreversible in effect \* that doesn’t involve your wallet? \* ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/89 "2002-11-07T21:35:41Z")
Hey, I thought of something! You guys are skeered that the Dems are gonna take away your guns… and then you won’t be able to shoot them when they come to take away your guns… Okay, anything else? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/90 "2002-11-07T21:43:06Z")
I wrote that from scratch. Read the first sentence in the post (“It’s LIKE an Onion article.”) I would not retype an original Onion article, that’s copyright infringement. The mods wouldn’t let it stay either. Incidentally, Stoid, I WAS making fun of you, I hope you got that part. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/91 "2002-11-07T21:51:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Moto \* > \*\* your paranoid little fantasies. \*\* Which ones would those be? The one where Koko wants to go to war? Better check what yer guy hasn’t shut up about for the last 6 months. Or is it the one where the oil companies get to drill in the ANWR? Or perhaps it’s my paranoid fantasy about the loss of civil liberties, the erosion of the Constitutional separation of church and state, etc. etc. Again, better look at the record of Mr. American-Citizens-Don’t-Need-No-Stinkin’-Representation-Ashcroft, I suggest you look for him at the Office of Faith-Based & Community Initiatives. And all that yummy goodness was acheived \* without \* total control of the Congress! I’m sure Pubbies everywhere came in their pants when they saw the election returns on Tuesday night. And yes, \*\* Rickjay, \*\* I did. But I appreciate good wit above almost anything, and that was excellent. Hat’s off. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/92 "2002-11-07T22:00:55Z")
**Stoid** , it’s Gore’s lack of character and integrity that disturbs me, not his platform. I didn’t hate the political decisions Clinton made. I hated the fact he literally EXECUTED the respect the office once held. I reserve the right to hold my public servants, especially the president, to a higher standard. If decisions on taxes, spending and prescription drugs reflect the elected choice of the people, I’m perfectly happy to go along with the public good. But also, if I feel that those in charge are admirable men and women of character, I sleep at night just fine. I respect Colin and Dick and Condeleeza. They’re my pillow. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/93 "2002-11-07T22:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Can anyone offer up anything the Democrats in general have said, planned, legislated, platformed, stumped for, or otherwise supported in the last, say 20 years, that is deeply disturbing, frightening, and potentially long-lasting or irreversible in effect that doesn’t involve your wallet? Socialized medicine. “Don’t ask Don’t Tell.” Detracking of schools HMOs. Welfare Mandatory sexual harassment education Cutting defense spending affirmative action The spousal impovershment act. Getting a bJ from an intern, Clinton naming his new dog Shamus while I already have a dog named Shamus, thus forcing me to change my dog’s name to Sarge. Funding abortions domestically and abroad. That should do for now. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/94 "2002-11-07T22:30:28Z")
So, **Sofa King** , you think the 48 Ds (50 less Wellstone & Carnahan) in the lame duck session are going to go along with the plans the Rs plan to ramrod through controversial legislation? Don’t you think that 48 people can pull off one hell of a tag-team fillibuster for the next couple of months? ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/95 "2002-11-07T23:00:44Z")
I sure as hell hope so, **ScoobyTX** , but the Dems don’t want to portray themselves simply as obstructionist assholes. Eventually, they’ll have to give up–or read the Bible on the Senate Floor for the next two months. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/96 "2002-11-07T23:06:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lieu \* > \*\ ***Stoid** , it’s Gore’s lack of character and integrity that disturbs me, not his platform. \*\* Assuming for the sake of the discussion that Gore does lack integrity and character (a claim I dispute, at least in terms of degree. At worst, he’s mushy.), what is so deeply disturbing to you that you would be motivated to feel as I expressed in my OP? What can you reasonably fear would follow that would so distress you? You can’t possibly think that Gore would be getting blowjobs, so what’s the concern? > [@](#): > > \*\* I didn’t hate the political decisions Clinton made. I hated the fact he literally EXECUTED the respect the office once held. I reserve the right to hold my public servants, especially the president, to a higher standard.\*\* See, this amazes me. I’m not thrilled with Clinton’s getting blowjobs in the Oval Office, but in the big picture, it doesn’t faze me. I’m absolutely certain he was not the first. And the failing I see is the failing of a \* man \* , not a \* president \*, which is a critical distinction. I was not ashamed to be an American because the human being in the Oval Office was personally weak. I was embarassed for him, but I never felt it reflected on me personally or on my country. On the other hand, should we find ourselves playing the aggressor in war against Iraq for what are the thinnest of reasons, thrown up to disguise far more self-serving reasons, and my country, which I truly love, should gain a reputation as an aggressor nation, then I will be ashamed and angry. Then the man in the Oval Office will have shamed this country and shamed that office, because his actions, which will bring death and suffering to who knows how many people, will be made as the president, acting as the leader of this country. \*\* That \*\*will be shame and dishonor of a sort that bleeds on to us all. Same goes for many other things that could easily result from his policies, but that is the worst. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/97 "2002-11-07T23:48:21Z")
**Sofa King** , I thought the classic filibuster book was the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/98 "2002-11-08T01:35:28Z")
Ah… but a filibuster consisting of the entire Old Testament – the Ethiopian church version that includes _extra_ Apocrypha --, New Testament, and why not throw in also the Book of Mormon and Science and Health, would probably place the GOPans in the delightful position of wanting scripture squelched in the Senate chamber… mmmmm… Or even better – filibuster by reading _Atlas Shrugged_ on the floor of the Senate. That would be an endurance test for all concerned… ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/99 "2002-11-08T03:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > Assuming for the sake of the discussion that Gore does lack integrity and character (a claim I dispute, at least in terms of degree. At worst, he’s mushy.), what is so deeply disturbing to you that you would be motivated to feel as I expressed in my OP? What can you reasonably fear would follow that would so distress you? You can’t possibly think that Gore would be getting blowjobs, so what’s the concern? _Low whistle_ Are you fucking kidding me? At just which goddamn degree does he become objectionable? How many lies must he tell? Huuuuh? At just which point did you quit looking to an elected leader for inspiration and guidance instead of for a 65th shade of grey? > [@](#): > > I’m not thrilled with Clinton’s getting blowjobs in the Oval Office, but in the big picture, it doesn’t faze me. I’m absolutely certain he was not the first. And the failing I see is the failing of a \* man \* , not a \* president \*, which is a critical distinction. I was not ashamed to be an American because the human being in the Oval Office was personally weak. I was embarassed for him, but I never felt it reflected on me personally or on my country. Sweet fucking Lord, does this ever require a bucket of patience… By “big picture” you certainly must not be referring to the worldwide laughingstock that the office of US president immediately became when allies and enemies everywhere were confronted with cum on a blew dress. I want you to assure me **Stoid** that muslim perceptions internationally never once used Clinton’s utter failings as a decent husband and father and moral leader when they issued decries against the “Great Satan”. I could give a fuck what Clinton did behind closed doors. Talking to Arafat in the Oval Office while a intern the age of your daughter gives you a hummer is NOT closing the door. What a stupid, irresponsible jackass, be it Dem or Pub. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, should we find ourselves playing the aggressor in war against Iraq for what are the thinnest of reasons, thrown up to disguise far more self-serving reasons, and my country, which I truly love, should gain a reputation as an aggressor nation, then I will be ashamed and angry. Then the man in the Oval Office will have shamed this country and shamed that office, because his actions, which will bring death and suffering to who knows how many people, will be made as the president, acting as the leader of this country. Agressor nation? Yeah, what the hell were our buildings doing running into those fucking planes? Stupid Kuwaitis! Iggie Kurds! Why should AlQuaeda murderers suffer when our civilians could instead? Here’s your choice… sit on your pacifist ass and let Al Quaeda get chems or nukes from Unkie Saddam and float 'em over here only to then realize in a mushroom moment just how truly wrong you were… or… hit all that are literally DYING to inflict harm on us right now to prevent the impending attacks. I don’t give a shit just how much sand is present where you live **Stoid**. As deep as you might bury your head, I’d still like to prevent the rest of your ass from getting baked off at some ridiculous farenheit multiple. Course, I’m just a Republican. I’m still looking for some way to fuck you in the ass tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2002, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521/100 "2002-11-08T03:16:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoid \* > Assuming for the sake of the discussion that Gore does lack integrity and character (a claim I dispute, at least in terms of degree. At worst, he’s mushy.), what is so deeply disturbing to you that you would be motivated to feel as I expressed in my OP? What can you reasonably fear would follow that would so distress you? You can’t possibly think that Gore would be getting blowjobs, so what’s the concern? _Low whistle_ Are you fucking kidding me? At just which goddamn degree does he become objectionable? How many lies must he tell? Huuuuh? At just which point did you quit looking to an elected leader for inspiration and guidance instead of for a 65th shade of grey? > [@](#): > > I’m not thrilled with Clinton’s getting blowjobs in the Oval Office, but in the big picture, it doesn’t faze me. I’m absolutely certain he was not the first. And the failing I see is the failing of a \* man \* , not a \* president \*, which is a critical distinction. I was not ashamed to be an American because the human being in the Oval Office was personally weak. I was embarassed for him, but I never felt it reflected on me personally or on my country. Sweet fucking Lord, does this ever require a bucket of patience… By “big picture” you certainly must not be referring to the worldwide laughingstock that the office of US president immediately became when allies and enemies everywhere were confronted with cum on a blew dress. I want you to assure me **Stoid** that muslim perceptions internationally never once used Clinton’s utter failings as a decent husband and father and moral leader when they issued decries against the “Great Satan”. I could give a fuck what Clinton did behind closed doors. Talking to Arafat in the Oval Office while a intern the age of your daughter gives you a hummer is NOT closing the door. What a stupid, irresponsible jackass, be it Dem or Pub. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, should we find ourselves playing the aggressor in war against Iraq for what are the thinnest of reasons, thrown up to disguise far more self-serving reasons, and my country, which I truly love, should gain a reputation as an aggressor nation, then I will be ashamed and angry. Then the man in the Oval Office will have shamed this country and shamed that office, because his actions, which will bring death and suffering to who knows how many people, will be made as the president, acting as the leader of this country. Agressor nation? Yeah, what the hell were our buildings doing running into those fucking planes? Stupid Kuwaitis! Iggie Kurds! Why should AlQuaeda murderers suffer when our civilians could instead? Here’s your choice… sit on your pacifist ass and let Al Quaeda get chems or nukes from Unkie Saddam and float 'em over here only to then realize in a mushroom moment just how truly wrong you were… or… hit all that are literally DYING to inflict harm on us right now to prevent the impending attacks. I don’t give a shit just how much sand is present where you live **Stoid**. As deep as you might bury your head, I’d still like to prevent the rest of your ass from getting baked off at some ridiculous farenheit multiple. Course, I’m just a Republican. I’m still looking for some way to fuck you in the ass tomorrow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-in-despair/135521.md?page=6)