# I am interested in disinterested knowledge **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2007, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728 "2007-09-19T11:01:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/1 "2007-09-19T11:01:53Z")
I am interested in disinterested knowledge Disinterested knowledge is the energy bunny. It generates the energy for exploration and for overcoming some of the inhibitions consciousness places on the unconscious. Disinterested knowledge is an intrinsic value. Disinterested knowledge is not a means but an end. It is knowledge I seek because I desire to know it. I mean the term ‘disinterested knowledge’ as similar to ‘pure research’, as compared to ‘applied research’. Pure research seeks to know truth unconnected to any specific application. Studying disinterested knowledge is like taking off a month every year to visit a strange new land. Curiosity is reinvigorated and new meaning is created. Knowledge is like a jigsaw puzzle. We have created many puzzles in coping with reality and when we receive a new piece of knowledge that does not fit our present puzzles we forgetaboutit (Italian word for ‘forget about it’). However, if through disinterested knowledge we have created new puzzles within which the new knowledge might fit we might find a whole new meaning in life. Our mind is constantly working for us and when we do not give it a worthwhile project, i.e. a new puzzle, it will just waste away in boredom or worry. Instrumental knowledge is interested knowledge. Instrumental knowledge is the life blood of a value system that places the maximizing of production and consumption as “Number One”. Disinterested knowledge is the un-knowledge, it is the non-instrumental knowledge. Disinterested knowledge is an alien and clumsy word in a society that places maximum value on production and consumption. **Disinterested knowledge is not a catalyst of production and consumption but it is the catalyst of creativity.** Disinterested knowledge is the mixing bowl of creativity. **Creativity is the synthesis of the known into a model of the unknown. The value of the unknown is yet to be determined. Creativity requires a comfort with the unknown.** Disinterested knowledge is a means to defragment your brain. Have you ever studied disinterested knowledge? Do you think it is important to love to learn? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/2 "2007-09-19T11:21:41Z")
Are you simply saying that knowledge and learning have inherent value, unconnected to any practical application they may have? If so, I agree. But would have used fewer words. Edit: Grammar error ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/3 "2007-09-19T11:24:56Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Have you ever studied disinterested knowledge? Do you think it is important to love to learn? [/QUOTE] Well I find that it’s the difference between learning by working, and enjoying learning. My job demands lots of learning but it’s just work. If I study outside of my field I do it for pure pleasure. Which is how the ancient Greeks felt about it too. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/4 "2007-09-19T11:51:25Z")
The Straight Dope is, presumably, full of people who just like to know things for knowing things sake and aren’t particularly interested in the practical application of any of it. On the other hand, I think that there is some amount of truth to Sherlock Holmes idea (presented in a Study in Scarlet, if I recall correctly) that there’s a finite amount of sheer knowledge that one can have in his head, and ultimately, focussing on knowing something really well is the only method for advancing it and thus expanding the amount of information that mankind _can_ know in that area. The Greeks invented a lot of interesting principles in math, but in most other areas of science ended up handing off gross misinformation that screwed up mankind for millenia in some cases. The difference was simply that mathematics was the only case where they verified their ideas instead of just thinking that introspection and logic would be sufficient to expand their knowledge. Essentially, they were just too happy to be unapplied and disinterested. And welcome back Coberst. I hope you have more luck in discussing your philosophic ideas this time around. You might try coming up with rabbit and the hair-style examples to make your ideas more clear. Oftentimes more words doesn’t mean increasd clarity. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/5 "2007-09-19T13:34:50Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] Are you simply saying that knowledge and learning have inherent value, unconnected to any practical application they may have? If so, I agree. But would have used fewer words. Edit: Grammar error [/QUOTE] Few words are nice. I always want to learn. Show me by example how you would illuminate the sleeping intellect with fewer words. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/6 "2007-09-19T13:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=essell] Well I find that it’s the difference between learning by working, and enjoying learning. My job demands lots of learning but it’s just work. If I study outside of my field I do it for pure pleasure. Which is how the ancient Greeks felt about it too. [/QUOTE] Amen brother/sister ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/7 "2007-09-19T13:38:14Z")
Sage Everybody clammers for fewer words. Reading is evidently an unpleasant chore for many. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/8 "2007-09-19T13:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Few words are nice. I always want to learn. Show me by example how you would illuminate the sleeping intellect with fewer words. [/QUOTE] “..illuminate the sleeping intellect ..”-“..inform people..” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/9 "2007-09-19T13:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Sage Everybody clammers for fewer words. Reading is evidently an unpleasant chore for many. [/QUOTE] Not really. It’s just that if I have a choice between reading 500 words that convey 1 idea, and 500 words that convey 5 ideas, I _might_ prefer the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/10 "2007-09-19T14:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] rabbit and the hair [/QUOTE] :smack: tortoise and the hare \* ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/11 "2007-09-19T15:01:22Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] :smack: tortoise and the hare \* [/QUOTE] I thought you were talking about feeding melted cheese to your rodents. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/12 "2007-09-19T17:03:43Z")
You said that knowledge doesn’t require a “reason” to be worthwhile, and then gave a bunch of reasons that knowledge for its own sake is good. If you cant say “knowledge is good because” then it isn’t good. There’s really no such thing as knowledge for its own sake. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_McGinty\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cc9497/32.png) [@Linty\_McGinty\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_McGinty_McGee)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/13 "2007-09-19T18:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] Have you ever studied disinterested knowledge? [/QUOTE] No. Sounds like a way to sell pamphlets. I’ve been to more than a few “psychic fairs” in my line of work, and each one has several booths with people selling pamphlets with a simple but vague premise. The pamphlets are really an invitation to “support research”, which I think means alms for the guy to write more pamphlets. Thant’s been my experience, may not apply to you. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/14 "2007-09-19T18:53:07Z")
What’s on your mind? This is about ROI, man! If you do not have a question on your mind that is important to you, you are a loser! We are all born with one of the principles of capitalism coded into our genes, i.e. use your assets to obtain maximum leverage. When I have willed that my mind help me to find an answer to some matter that I really care about I have placed on my ‘mental bulldozer’ an operator seeking that answer. My M/B (mental bulldozer) is waiting in the shed for my assignment. If I have not given it an assignment the operator of that M/B is any scatter brained monkey that comes along. Your mental ROI (Return on Investment) is 1000 if you invest time and effort in creating questions that you are curious of and care about. If you are ‘curious and caring’ about a matter your M/B will be working 24/7 to help in the quest for a solution. Our brain is a marvelous instrument that can function in parallel mode on many problems simultaneously. Your M/B depends upon the knowledge in your data bank to organize its efforts. The bigger and more diverse your data bank the greater scope the mind has for organizing a solution. If you are ‘curious and caring’ about a matter your M/B will be working 24/7 to help in the quest for a solution. Your M/B depends upon the knowledge in your data bank to organize its efforts. The bigger and more diverse your data bank the greater scope the mind has for organizing a solution. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/15 "2007-09-19T19:30:07Z")
**coberst,** You can take this or leave it, and it is not meant to be an attack on you. But, if you are going to depend on the written word to convey your thoughts, especially if they are grand ones, better writing will be of great help. It takes discipline and work, but that is the cost you must be willing to pay to avail yourself of its maximum benefit. Right now, your stuff comes off (to me) as the ramblings of ex-Manson follower who adopted a New Age world view in a hot tub in Mill Valley. A great writer (Soroyan, I think it was) once added this addendum to a letter. I’ll paraphrase: “Please excuse this long note, I didn’t have time to write a shorter one.” I have a notion that what you’d like to discuss might be quite interesting, but I don’t have time for cryptography. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/16 "2007-09-19T19:48:37Z")
[QUOTE=coberst] When I have willed that my mind help me to find an answer to some matter that I really care about I have placed on my ‘mental bulldozer’ an operator seeking that answer. My M/B (mental bulldozer) is waiting in the shed for my assignment. If I have not given it an assignment the operator of that M/B is any scatter brained monkey that comes along. [/QUOTE] Don’t leave the keys in, man! This is monkey country! ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/17 "2007-09-20T16:33:44Z")
You’re in luck. I happened to major in disinterested knowledge at Ennui U. –The final word on page 291 of Thomas Carlyle’s _Sartor Resartus_ is “spun.” –The Chinese town of Hsinking is 735 feet above sea level, so you shouldn’t worry. –Benjamin West once painted himself painting his wife, which was thrifty of him. –I think I saw a chipmunk. –The first aspirin tablet was sold in 1899, possibly to someone with a headache. –The _Washington Post_’s society reporter during WWII was named Marie McNair. –There’s a lot of blue in Botswana’s flag, but it’s not the same shade they use for Cuba’s. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/18 "2007-09-20T19:53:21Z")
Assume Fred is a health nut who exercises constantly and is always advising others to start a strict exercise routine for their health. Fred is well liked but most people on the island think that he over emphasizes the value of exercise. One day after pursuing a specific exercises routine Fred become conscious of color. He is shocked and frightened and discontinues the exercise. Many weeks later curiosity gets the best of him and he returns to the exercise routine and there again appears the perception of color. Fred experiments with this matter and concludes that when he performs the afore mentioned exercise routine he can perceive color constantly. If you were Fred would you inform your friends and acquaintances of this occurrence? How would you explain this perception to others? How would others respond to your efforts to explain what happened? Picture me as Fred in this little fantasy. Picture that my inspiration is not color but an intellectual life. Twenty-five years ago I stumbled upon what I now call the self-actualizing self-learning hobby. I accidentally discovered the power and importance of self-learning and my message to all who will listen is ‘get a life—get an intellectual life’. Socrates is my ideal here. I am asking everyone who will listen that they become critically self-conscious. I claim that if society does not become more intellectually sophisticated our species will not make it for another two hundred years. ---
**Author:** ![coberst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@coberst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coberst)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-interested-in-disinterested-knowledge/419728/19 "2007-09-20T19:55:49Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] **coberst,** You can take this or leave it, and it is not meant to be an attack on you. But, if you are going to depend on the written word to convey your thoughts, especially if they are grand ones, better writing will be of great help. It takes discipline and work, but that is the cost you must be willing to pay to avail yourself of its maximum benefit. Right now, your stuff comes off (to me) as the ramblings of ex-Manson follower who adopted a New Age world view in a hot tub in Mill Valley. A great writer (Soroyan, I think it was) once added this addendum to a letter. I’ll paraphrase: “Please excuse this long note, I didn’t have time to write a shorter one.” I have a notion that what you’d like to discuss might be quite interesting, but I don’t have time for cryptography. Good luck. [/QUOTE] Trying to please everyone is a problem. Some say they cannot comprehend my writing and others say I am just regurgitating what everyone already knows. I cannot win so I just do my best.