# "I am known by many names." Whence? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543 "2006-02-01T18:54:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/1 "2006-02-01T18:54:05Z")
I have read the phrase “I am known by many names” in Bored of the Rings, and it seems that they are quoting it as a well known quotation. I googled it, but all of our little d&d friends seem to have rendered google inert for my purposes. can anybody tell me from where it came…originally? thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/2 "2006-02-01T19:01:18Z")
In LOTR, Gandalf says that at some point, though I don’t remember where, and tells the names by which he is known to various peoples and countries…Mithrandir to the Elves, Gandalf to Men and Hobbits, and Incanus to the Haradrim. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/3 "2006-02-01T19:35:22Z")
Maybe influenced by **Luke 8:27-30** : > [@](#): > > And when he was come forth upon the land, there met him a certain man out of the city, who had demons; and for a long time he had worn no clothes, and abode not in any house, but in the tombs. And when he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I beseech thee, torment me not. For he was commanding the unclean spirit to come out from the man. For oftentimes it had seized him: and he was kept under guard, and bound with chains and fetters; and breaking the bands asunder, he was driven of the demon into the deserts. And Jesus asked him, What is thy name? And he said, Legion; for many demons were entered into him. Or the opening lines of _Godspell_: > [@](#): > > My name is known: God and King. I am most in majesty, in whom no beginning may be and no end. ---
**Author:** ![Petey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f1d935/32.png) [@Petey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petey)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/4 "2006-02-01T19:41:35Z")
Faramir quotes Gandalf “many are my names” when he first meets Frodo. > [@](#): > > ‘The Grey Pilgrim?’ said Frodo. ‘Had he a name?’ > ‘Mithrandir we called him in elf-fashion,’ said Faramir, ‘and he was content. Many are my names in many countries, he said. Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not.’ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/5 "2006-02-01T19:48:30Z")
From _The Two Towers_, Book Four, Chapter V, “The Window on the West” Frodo and Sam have met up with Faramir, who says: > [@](#): > > ‘It was these records that brought the Grey Pilgrim to us. I first saw him when I was a child, and he has been twice or thrice since then.’ > > ‘The Grey Pilgrim?’ said Frodo. ‘Had he a name?’ > > ‘Mithrandir we called him in elf-fashion,’ said Faramir, ‘and he was content. _Many are my names in many countries,_ he said. _Mithrandir among the Elves, Tharkûn to the Dwarves; Olórin I was in my youth in the West that is forgotten, in the South Incánus, in the North Gandalf; to the East I go not._’ ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/6 "2006-02-01T22:59:55Z")
So for those more familiar with LotR than I am, I have a question. I’ve always been curious about this statement - what is the “west that is forgotten”? And who calls him “Incanus”? Why doesn’t he go to the east? Can anyone explain the entirety of that quote? Is there context for it in _The Silmarillion_ or something? ---
**Author:** ![ryobserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b2d939/32.png) [@ryobserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryobserver)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/7 "2006-02-02T00:01:32Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So for those more familiar with LotR than I am, I have a question. I’ve always been curious about this statement - what is the “west that is forgotten”? And who calls him “Incanus”? Why doesn’t he go to the east? Can anyone explain the entirety of that quote? Is there context for it in _The Silmarillion_ or something? The context for almost all of it is in Appendix A of The Return of the King. The “west that is forgotten” is Numenor, the previous kingdom of men that was “thrown down and swallowed in the Sea” for trying to attack the Undying Lands at the end of the Second Age. The appendix doesn’t say who lives in the South. Someone does, but they don’t play any part in LotR’s plot. Gandalf doesn’t go to the East because that’s where Mordor is, and he wouldn’t exactly be welcome or safe. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/8 "2006-02-02T00:10:15Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > So for those more familiar with LotR than I am, I have a question. I’ve always been curious about this statement - what is the “west that is forgotten”? And who calls him “Incanus”? Why doesn’t he go to the east? Can anyone explain the entirety of that quote? Is there context for it in _The Silmarillion_ or something? The ‘West that is forgotten’ is Valinor, where he was known as Olorin. The Istari (wizards) were emissaries sent to Middle Earth by the Valar, and were themselves probably on the level of _Maiar_, or lesser divine beings. _Unfinished Tales_, compiled and edited by son Christopher Tolkien, says that there were five Istari: Gandalf the Grey, Radagast the Brown, Saruman the White, and Two ‘Blue Wizards’ who went East and there possibly became the origin of various magic cults. Incanus was his name in the far south, probably among the Haradrim. It means “northern spy”. The East, marked “RHUN” on the maps which simply means “east”, was the home of the Easterlings and Wainriders, and Gandalf had little reason to go there. He usually didn’t accomplish his mission by spying out the enemy, but rather by using his powers to motivate Aragorn and other allies with whom he came in contact, and to encourage them. This is seen, for examle, in the cure of Theoden, and in a more lighthearted vein, in egging Bilbo on to adventure in the begging of _The Hobbit_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/9 "2006-02-02T00:29:07Z")
Incidentally, the West is “forgotten” because it’s been removed from the Circles of the World. Valinor used to actually lie to the West of Middle-Earth, but the landing of the Armada of Ar-Pharazon led the Valar to lay down their guardianship and allow Eru to reshape the world, so that Valinor could only be gained via “the Straight Road”, in Elven ships that left the bounds of Arda. Since the mortal races had no way to get there (except in a very small number of very special cases), it was “forgotten” by the majority of the world. It seems to be generally accepted that Gandalf’s identity as Olorin is identical to the Maia Olorin who spent much time in the Gardens of Lorien in Valinor when the World was young. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/10 "2006-02-02T04:45:24Z")
Evocative of John 14:2, “In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/11 "2006-02-02T05:32:12Z")
And when Tolkien wrote of the names for Gandalf, I’m pretty sure he had Odin in mind. From the Grimnismal, I am called Grim, I am called Traveler, Warrior and Helmet-Wearer, Agreable, Third, Thuð and Uð, High-One and Hel-Blinder. Truth, Change, and Truth-Getter, Battle-Glad, Abaser, Death-Worker, Hider, One-Eye, Fire-Eye, Lore-Master, Masked, Deceitful. Broad-Hat, Broad-Beard, Boat-Lord, Rider, All-Father, Death-Father, Father of Victory, But by one name I have never been called Since I came among men. Masked I am called in the courts of Geirrod, But Jalk in Asmund’s Hall, Keeler they say of the sledge-drawer, Stirrer-of-Strife at Things, Vidur on the field of battle, Equal-High, Shaker, Shout and Wish, Wand-Bearer, Grey-Beard among gods. Wise and Sage at Sokkmimir’s When I hid the old giant: When I came to Midvitnir’s The Killer of the Famed One’s Son sat there alone. You are drunk, dead drunk, Geirrod, Deprived of reason, deprived of my help, Of the favor of the fallen, of the favor of Odin. I have told you much, you remember too little, Friends betray your trust: Already I see the sword of my friend, A blade dripping with blood. Soon shall Ygg have your sword-struck corpse, Your life race is run: Hostile are the incubi, Odin can see, Draw on me if you dare. I am now Odin, I was Ygg before, Thud my name before that, Wakeful and Heavens-Roar, Hanged and Skilfing, Goth and Jalk among gods, Unraveler, Sleep-Bringer: they are really one, Many names for me. That is from the Auden-Taylor translation. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/12 "2006-02-02T06:00:56Z")
In _200 Motels,_ Rance Mohammitz, the Peter Ustinov character (understood to be the Devil) often says, “I have many names.” He sure does. Old Scratch, Old Nick, Satan, Lucifer, The Prince of Darkness, The Master of the Underworld, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/13 "2006-02-02T18:21:37Z")
Oy. Once again, I’ve answered a question that was not asked. Sorry. I’m not being helpful when I do that. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-known-by-many-names-whence/342543/14 "2006-02-02T22:53:47Z")
This tradition goes way back. Another person of many names: I am she that is the naturall mother of all things, mistresse and governesse of all the Elements, the initiall progeny of worlds, chiefe of powers divine, Queene of heaven! the principall of the Gods celestiall, the light of the goddesses: at my will the planets of the ayre, the wholesome winds of the Seas, and the silences of hell be diposed; **my name, my divinity is adored throughout all the world in divers manners, in variable customes and in many names** , for the Phrygians call me the mother of the Gods: the Athenians, Minerva: the Cyprians, Venus: the Candians, Diana: the Sicilians Proserpina: the Eleusians, Ceres: some Juno, other Bellona, other Hecate: and principally the Aethiopians which dwell in the Orient, and the Aegyptians which are excellent in all kind of ancient doctrine, and by their proper ceremonies accustome to worship mee, doe call mee Queene Isis. From _The Golden Ass_ by Lucius Apuleius “Africanus” (c. A.D. 123/5 - c. A.D. 180) Translation by William Adlington (First published 1566)