# I am Moderate America, sell me on Ted Cruz **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 2, 2016, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921 "2016-02-02T04:36:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/61 "2016-02-03T23:47:42Z")
That was a great post, Sam Stone. Maybe the Cruz team could hire you if he wins the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/62 "2016-02-04T00:38:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He’s very smart. Somehow, that does not save him from being [fucking delusional](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous) – or else giving such a cynical and consistent imitation of same as to make no practical difference. It’s hard to tell which is scarier – that he believes the things he says or that he doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/63 "2016-02-04T01:39:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Somehow, that does not save him from being [fucking delusional](http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/ted-cruz-isnt-idiot-hes-delusional-and-thats-far-more-dangerous) – or else giving such a cynical and consistent imitation of same as to make no practical difference. It’s hard to tell which is scarier – that he believes the things he says or that he doesn’t. Yes, I am sure an AlterNet article will be very persuasive to Sam Stone. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/64 "2016-02-04T04:03:21Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Cruz would be ok on a few things but probably pretty bad on war, government spending, and possibly even taxes (has proposed a VAT). > > He’s the only free trade Republican with a shot at the nomination, and if he faces Hillary, which is likely, he would be the “peace” candidate. > > Currently the biggest threats for a moderate American are the threats Trump and Sanders present to free trade. Hillary would be for managed trade like Obama. Which is a mixed bag. YOu give her too much credit. She’s in favor of free trade, has been throughout her public life, unless there’s a Presidential election campaign. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/65 "2016-02-04T04:52:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He’s probably got a better chance of getting a handle on corporate cronyism, which he hates, than any other candidate on any either side of the aisle. Hillary is owned by Wall Street, Sanders would likely be ineffective, so if you want something done about corporations twisting the law and the government to their benefit, Cruz might be the guy (if anyone is, and that’s debatable). Conveniently missing that his wife works at Goldman Sachs, and that not one but two investment banks provided loans for his previous campaign. Sure, those loans were probably secured against assets but maybe not. Sam, I’d be surprised if you could get Goldy’s to give you a loan against assets…jus’ sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/66 "2016-02-04T05:16:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He’s very smart. Undoubtedly the smartest person running for office on either side right now. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious! Thanks for the laugh! Wait a minute… were you serious? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/67 "2016-02-04T05:54:35Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > We should always assume that any GOP plan that reduces government revenues is a part of their long-term strategy to run up the debt to the point we are forced to abandon Social Security and/or Medicare. I can’t see how that is good for Americans, except maybe the wealthiest. > > Cruz policy fail. If Social Security funds were properly managed that program would pay for itself. But since trusting the government to be fiscally responsible is foolish we deserve to be robbed. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/68 "2016-02-04T06:28:19Z")
Yeah, getting back to how Republicans treat Social Security, from [here](http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/): > [@](#): > > Reagan had never been a friend of Social Security. He was a hardliner when it came to all government social programs. He called unemployment insurance “a prepaid vacation plan for freeloaders.” He said the progressive income tax was “ a brainchild of Karl Marx.” And, he called welfare recipients “a faceless mass waiting for handouts.” Reagan referred to Social Security as a “welfare program” and, during the 1976 Republican Presidential Primary, Reagan proposed making Social Security voluntary, which would have essentially destroyed the program. - See more at: [http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/#sthash.d3qdlYJb.dpuf](http://www.fedsmith.com/2013/10/11/ronald-reagan-and-the-great-social-security-heist/#sthash.d3qdlYJb.dpuf) Or [here](https://www.ssa.gov/history/bushstmts.html), read for yourself as HW Bush defends Reagan’s regressive Social Security tax hike, which was diverted to the general fund to hide the failure of supply side economics. From [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_debate_in_the_United_States#George_W._Bush.27s_privatization_proposal): > [@](#): > > In this speech, which sparked the debate, it was Plan II of CSSS’s report that [GW] Bush outlined as the starting point for changes in Social Security. He outlined, in general terms, a proposal based on partial privatization. After a phase-in period, workers currently less than 55 years old would have the option to set aside four percentage points of their payroll taxes in individual accounts that could be invested in the private sector, in “a conservative mix of bonds and stock funds”. > [@](#): > > In his speech, Bush did not address the issue of how the system would continue to provide benefits for current and near-future retirees if some of the incoming Social Security tax receipts were to be diverted into private accounts. From [here](http://www.ibtimes.com/jeb-bush-next-president-should-privatize-social-security-1969720): > [@](#): > > Jeb Bush thinks the next president will need to privatize Social Security, he said at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire on Tuesday – acknowledging that his brother attempted to do so and failed. Think it is just a Reagan/Bush thing? [Ted Cruz: Bush had it right, let’s privatize Social Security](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/4/9/1376644/-Ted-Cruz-Bush-had-it-right-let-s-privatize-Social-nbsp-Security). And now Cruz, Trump and ISTM every other GOP candidate has a plan to increase the deficit. They will scream about how awful the deficit is, but the only solution they will accept is to cut Social Security and Medicare. Moderate America won’t go for that, which is why none of these candidates make cutting Social Security and Medicare an explicit platform of their campaigns. They want it to be just a consequence of following the One True Conservative Ideology, wherever it leads… (hint: that is cuts to Social Security and Medicare) > [@octopus](#): > > If Social Security funds were properly managed that program would pay for itself. But since trusting the government to be fiscally responsible is foolish we deserve to be robbed. I think you mean, “since trusting **Republicans** to be fiscally responsible is foolish, we deserve to be robbed.” At least, if you saw clearly that is what you would mean. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/69 "2016-02-04T09:39:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The best I can come up with is that he’s against the corporate Republican establishment. I got nothin’ else. He’s also not thrilled with the surveillance state, but some moderates like being surveilled(It’s EXTREME to want privacy I guess). His wife works for goldmann sachs and he lied about how they put up everything to start his campaing. they put up everything they had and borrowed $1 million from goldmann sachs. he has to be one of the worst candidates on the board with that alone. Paul Ryans wife is a lobbyist. True conservatives and true liberals despise candidates with ties lobbyists and the wall street big banks (goldmann sachs). Yet conservatives keep churning them out because their religious einstein followers dont even know what lobbyists are! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/70 "2016-02-04T15:06:04Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I seem to remember something about carpet bombing and seeing if the sand will glow. He may favor overwhelming air power against ISIS, but he would still be able to say he supports less military intervention than the super-hawk Clinton. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Any Pub but Paul would be, and Paul just dropped out. Trump would definitely be better on war than Clinton, and probably better than Sanders. Sanders supports Clinton style “humanitarian” intervention, Trump would have none of that. They’d both go after ISIS so it’s a wash there. When the Republican establishment is upset with you, it’s because you are not militaristic enough. Any other deviation is acceptable to them. Trump would also not make a boogeyman out of Putin. Even Obama can’t resist provoking Putin unnecessarily. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/71 "2016-02-04T21:17:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious! Thanks for the laugh! > > Wait a minute… were you serious? :eek: Yes, I know all Republicans must be idiots, right? Well, this idiot: [ul] [li]Graduated high school as valedictorian[/li][li] Graduated cum laude from Princeton[/li][li] Won the top speaker award at both the 1992 U.S. National Debating Championship and the 1992 North American Debating Championship. He was then declared U.S. National Speaker of the Year. He lost in the semi-finals of the world debate championships[/li][li] Graduated from Harvard Law magna cum laude. Alan Dershowitz, one of his profs at Harvard, said “Cruz was off-the-charts brilliant”[/li][li]Cruz was a primary editor of the Harvard Law Review[/li][li]Cruz clerked for the Supreme Justice of the United States - the first latino to do so.[/li][li] American Lawyer magazine named Cruz as one of the 50 Best Litigators under 45 in America.[/li][li]_Texas Lawyer_ named Cruz as one of the 25 Greatest Texas Lawyers of the Past Quarter Century[/li][/ul] You don’t have to like the guy, and I have a number of problems with him myself, but there’s simply no denying that he’s incredibly smart. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/72 "2016-02-04T21:18:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Yes, I know all Republicans must be idiots, right? Well, this idiot: > [ul] > [li]Graduated high school as valedictorian[/li][li] Graduated cum laude from Princeton[/li][li] Won the top speaker award at both the 1992 U.S. National Debating Championship and the 1992 North American Debating Championship. He was then declared U.S. National Speaker of the Year. He lost in the semi-finals of the world debate championships[/li][li] Graduated from Harvard Law magna cum laude. Alan Dershowitz, one of his profs at Harvard, said “Cruz was off-the-charts brilliant”[/li][li]Cruz was a primary editor of the Harvard Law Review[/li][li]Cruz clerked for the Supreme Justice of the United States - the first latino to do so.[/li][li] American Lawyer magazine named Cruz as one of the 50 Best Litigators under 45 in America.[/li][li]_Texas Lawyer_ named Cruz as one of the 25 Greatest Texas Lawyers of the Past Quarter Century[/li][/ul] > > You don’t have to like the guy, and I have a number of problems with him myself, but there’s simply no denying that he’s incredibly smart. WTF happened to him? Stroke? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/73 "2016-02-04T21:31:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Aside from Rand Paul, he’s probably the most libertarian-leaning of all the Republican candidates. He’s probably got a better chance of getting a handle on corporate cronyism, which he hates, …unless it’s his wife. Just sayin’ > [@](#): > > He’s a strong constitutionalist, There’s already a job slot for that. It’s called the Supreme Court. Obama taught constitutional law and that didn’t deflect any “imperial presidency” snark from the blogosphere. “Constitutionalism” is right-wing-speak for “strict originalism,” a notion that should have stayed in the 19th century where it belongs. > [@](#): > > With all the precedents Obama has been trying to set regarding Presidential power, Like issuing **less** Executive Orders than any president in forty years? That’s a precedent I can live with, thanks for asking. > [@](#): > > Interestingly, when Texas’s anti-sodomy laws were struck down, Cruz refused to defend them at the Supreme court. So maybe he’s not quite so harsh on gay rights as his current rhetoric in the bible belt would suggest. Or maybe he realized it was a lost cause. Unless you actually expect the Supremes would reverse themselves so quickly, absent an egregious error in fact or law? > [@](#): > > he was a policy advisor in the Bush administration YMMV, but that’s something I’d leave OFF the resume. > [@](#): > > And… other Republicans hate him. So you’ve got that going for you. That’s doesn’t speak to his qualifications for POTUS, it speaks to his personality. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > He may favor overwhelming air power against ISIS, but he would still be able to say he supports less military intervention than the super-hawk Clinton. Yes, he only supports _precision_ carpet-bombing. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/74 "2016-02-04T21:41:45Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > …unless it’s his wife. Just sayin’ Going on the evidence, rather than guilt through association, Cruz has taken a number of principled stands against corporate cronyism. For example, I believe he was the only major candidate to go into Iowa and tell Iowans that their corn ethanol subsidies had to go. Sanders caved to the corn lobby, as did Trump, Rubio and Hillary. The conventional wisdom was that no one could survive the Iowa caucuses without kissing the ass of the ethanol lobby, and Cruz didn’t do it. He even stuck to his position when the Governor of Iowa came out against him because of it. That counts for something. He actually put his campaign on the line for the principle of opposing crony subsidies to big agribusiness. The ‘principled’ Bernie Sanders, who has opposed ethanol subsidies in the past, had a sudden change of heart just before the Iowa caucuses. Trump campaigned on _expanding_ them, and Rubio and the others abandoned their opposition to corporate cronyism when it came to Iowa and the corn lobby. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/75 "2016-02-04T21:46:32Z")
“Guilt through association” takes on a different strength when it’s your wife, whose employer lends you 500k for your election campaign. And she’s no teller, shes fairly bigwig. Literally in bed with Goldman Sachs. Lol ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/76 "2016-02-04T21:51:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > “Guilt through association” takes on a different strength when it’s your wife, whose employer lends you 500k for your election campaign. And she’s no teller, shes fairly bigwig. Literally in bed with Goldman Sachs. Lol And Hillary got $750,000 for a speaking engagement with Goldman Sachs. Are you accusing her of corruption as well? Or with her do you need actual evidence of wrongdoing? The actual evidence we have with Cruz is that he took a principled stand against one of the strongest lobbies in the country. Hillary and Bernie both caved to them. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/77 "2016-02-04T21:51:37Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > You don’t have to like the guy, and I have a number of problems with him myself, but there’s simply no denying that he’s incredibly smart. I agree. Though, of course, we should recall the wise words of **Sam Stone** : “So far, he’s gone a long way on his charisma, intelligence, and speaking style. But his resume sucks for a presidential candidate. Hell, it sucks for a Vice Presidential candidate. A few years in a state Senate, half a term as a Senator in Washington, and that’s about it. No foreign policy experience, no executive experience, no major legislative accomplishments. There are about 500 people in my city right now with better resumes than his, including several friends of mine.” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/78 "2016-02-04T21:54:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > And Hillary got $750,000 for a speaking engagement with Goldman Sachs. Are you accusing her of corruption as well? Or with her do you need actual evidence of wrongdoing? Who said anything about “corruption” or “wrongdoing”? Not me. But I sure as hell don’t trust her to come down hard on sugar daddy. How about you? Do you extend the same skepticism to Cruz? Sure doesn’t seeem like it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/79 "2016-02-04T21:57:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I agree. > > Though, of course, we should recall the wise words of **Sam Stone** : “So far, he’s gone a long way on his charisma, intelligence, and speaking style. But his resume sucks for a presidential candidate. Hell, it sucks for a Vice Presidential candidate. A few years in a state Senate, half a term as a Senator in Washington, and that’s about it. No foreign policy experience, no executive experience, no major legislative accomplishments. There are about 500 people in my city right now with better resumes than his, including several friends of mine.” Exactly right. When I said I have problems with Ted Cruz, that’s a major one. As I’ve told other right-wing folks, “Many of us on the right complained that Obama didn’t have the executive experience to be President. Then he got elected and proved us right. So why are we supporting one-term Senators now? The same logic applies.” Unfortunately, Senators are all we’ve got left for serious candidates, on both sides. I believe that successful governors are the best candidates for President, followed by CEO’s and Generals. Executive competency is not easy to find, and it’s important for a President. There’s no time to learn on the job. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921/80 "2016-02-04T21:57:41Z")
He’s a snowback. Maybe he’ll bring single-payer health care and gun control ideas from his home country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-moderate-america-sell-me-on-ted-cruz/744921.md?page=5)