# I am never, ever buying another PC again. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734 "2011-06-16T19:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/61 "2011-06-17T13:32:52Z")
Yes, Macs can get malware, if you click directly on the “omg no, I don’t want malware, please take my money” button. Otherwise I’ve never had to perform any maintenance like I do on a PC (and I do watch quite a bit of porn, tyvm :p) My roommate’s Linux box has turned me off of that OS forever. If Ubuntu is considered a user-friendly distro, I’d hate to see what the other ones look like, because each time she needs me to fix a problem for her, it’s always a train wreck of me googling and typing things I only barely understand into the Terminal. Even minor things like “oh no! My computer crashed and now my internet icon at the top right has gone away and I don’t know how to get it back!” Apparently her clock disappeared from up there /months/ ago, she couldn’t figure it out, and ignored it. And it was a few hours of work before we were able to get her computer to recognize the NAS. Anyway, conclusion: if you set up the requisite scanning tools on Windows, and buy a machine that’s actually beefy enough to run them and Windows at the same time, along with whatever else you’re trying to do, that direction works. I prefer Mac (obviously), but if I were shopping in the Windows market, would probably spend just as much on a similar laptop. People always bring up the price argument, and compare a $600 cheap plastic box with a crappy screen against OMG THIS MACBOOK PRO IS OVER $2000! ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/62 "2011-06-17T13:47:18Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > The problem is with the user who didn’t update the OS properly. > > I thought it was common sense nowadays, that when you do a fresh install of an OS or major software, you should do an auto-update before you use it. And for an OS, you often need to update/reboot a couple of times before everything is up to date. As already mentioned above, some updates require earlier updates to be installed first, and those earlier updates may require reboots. > > As for malware, the last time I had to remove malware from a Windows system I owned or managed was 1995. Ask yourself this: “Does it seem crazy that we’ve gotten to the point where this is an acceptable behavior?” Honestly, I think the Tech industry is CHOCK FULL of Marketers and Middle Managers and Software Coders, but only Apple ever hires people to USE their stuff. Install. Wait. Reboot. Update. Reboot. Update. Reboot. Update. Reboot. THEN Install application. Wait…did I spend all this money on a computer for ME to USE it, or did I buy it so that the Virus Scanner can suck every available cycle dry? Linux is a good cheap-now solution, right up until you get to run ‘sudo install apt-get build essential’ and compile modules for your hardware. It CAN run well, it often DOES run well, it is NOT as friendly as the alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/63 "2011-06-17T13:51:11Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This is an honest question here that I’m asking, not a rhetorical one: Does this stuff happen on Macs? Let me lay it all out in order: > > Do Macs get infected with vile fake anti-virus programs that pop up, malware that redirects your browser to bullshit sites, Trojan horses, viruses that make it so that Firefox doesn’t load when you click on it, etc? > > If so, when you re-install the system on a Mac, does it then need _further_ updating via an automatic update program? Or is everything you need on the system already? Macs are just as susceptable to malware, but I believe the infection rate is lower in practise. Due to the smaller user base, more malware and virus authors target the PC. Macs also require patching, both of the OS and web browser. Windows update works very well these days. I’ve had exactly one problem with it in many years of use, on several PCs at home and work. After a re-install, simply keep running it until you run out of updates to install. It’s time-consuming, but it keeps you protected as various security problems are identified and fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/64 "2011-06-17T14:07:40Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I’ve been hearing about the coming Mac viruses since I bought my first computer 14 years ago. Not only have I never had a virus, I’ve never even known anyone to have one. (True Story!) I installed parallels on my Mac. It offered to install Kaspersky for a 6 month free trial. It scanned my VM, then continued to scan my Mac, as I’d shared up the root filesystem to transfer files. **and it found a malicious bit of software!** Now, I’ve had this computer with me to DEFCON, considered to have The Most Dangerous Network known to man, as that’s where the folks go to demonstrate their cred, and learn hacking techniques that will be upcoming in the following months. It was a bluetooth dropper. It got placed on my computer because I had Bluetooth enabled while I was there, and someone got within range, and dropped the file on my system. Only it didn’t DO anything. Infection on the Mac STILL requires the malware CONVINCE the user to ACT. So, one harmless, unused file, but it IS considered malware, and I DID see it on a Mac. That’s pretty much the extent of what I’ve seen, and I had to go to the worst possible place in the world, computer-wise, to get it. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/65 "2011-06-17T14:11:28Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Really? I recently set up a micro-PC (a tiny box with a 1.66GHz Atom processor) as a media PC running XBMC on Ubuntu. I had it playing a movie in XBMC and a 720p YouTube video in another window as a test, and neither stuttered at all. It does have a decent onboard GPU, though. I’ve seen it on two different laptops, both in the 1.5 GHz range. Both played youtube videos much more smoothly under windows. Laptops generally do not have a good GPU. The computer I am using now (3 GHz P4) plays youtube videos reasonably smoothly. I wouldn’t say there is any noticeable stuttering, but the videos just don’t quite look as good to my eye, which I’m guessing is a slightly lower frame rate. This machine also does not have what I would call a good GPU. For a faster machine than this it probably wouldn’t be an issue, even with a crappy GPU. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/66 "2011-06-17T14:54:34Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > I’ve seen it on two different laptops, both in the 1.5 GHz range. Both played youtube videos much more smoothly under windows. Laptops generally do not have a good GPU. > > The computer I am using now (3 GHz P4) plays youtube videos reasonably smoothly. I wouldn’t say there is any noticeable stuttering, but the videos just don’t quite look as good to my eye, which I’m guessing is a slightly lower frame rate. This machine also does not have what I would call a good GPU. For a faster machine than this it probably wouldn’t be an issue, even with a crappy GPU. Probably more than likely Adobe’s crappy implementation of Flash on Linux. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/67 "2011-06-17T14:57:34Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Probably more than likely Adobe’s crappy implementation of Flash on Linux. Sometimes at work, trying to decide which size hammer to use on the damn thing, I _so_ wish everything was made by Microsoft. At home, on the other hand…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/68 "2011-06-17T15:03:41Z")
> [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > If you have any charity in your heart, please stop. I am a web developer and just ran a query on our JIRA bug tracker after reading this thread. Over the last 8 years we’ve had 11.5 IE only issues for each Firefox/Safari/Chrome only issues combined. I’m curious and non-partisan with this question: Do you write for a particular kind of client? Most of the problems I have are with users having Firefox with websites designed for IE. I’ve seen some sites that declare they are made for Firefox, but not at work. I wonder if most business and government sites encountered are written for IE. And the problem occurs less and less. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/69 "2011-06-17T15:52:15Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Probably more than likely Adobe’s crappy implementation of Flash on Linux. That is a big problem. Chromium, the open source version of Google’s browser, has a built-in flash which is better. I’ve got a little 1.66Ghz netbook with just built-in graphics and it can’t play BBC iPlayer smoothly in Firefox, only in Chromium. Other videos no problem. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/70 "2011-06-17T16:30:47Z")
Quoth **engineer\_comp\_geek** : > [@](#): > > Mac malware and viruses are particularly on the rise because so many users think that their machines are invulnerable to such things. Ironically, the opposite is true: They’re on the rise because users think their machines are _not_ invulnerable. All of the Mac malware actually found in the wild takes the same form: A popup ad on a webpage says something like “Your computer is infected; download and run our security software to fix it”. Someone who is convinced that Macs can’t get malware just ignores the ad, and continues to be uninfected. Someone who thinks that all computers are vulnerable, though, might believe the popup, and proceed to download the malware, give it their administrator password in the installation, and run it themselves, at which point, the prophecy is self-fulfilled, and now their Mac does have malware on it. And what’s really ironic is that you mostly hear about these malwares from Linux apologists, who go on to say that Mac malware is rare only because of the small target size, and that things like this are reasons folks should use Linux instead. Except that an attack like that would work just as well against Linux as it would against a Mac, or indeed any other complete operating system-- The only systems that would be safe would be things like iOS, where you can only install and run apps that come from a single proprietary source. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/71 "2011-06-17T16:48:41Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I’ve been hearing about the coming Mac viruses since I bought my first computer 14 years ago. Not only have I never had a virus, I’ve never even known anyone to have one. Genuine viruses on the Mac are possible but vanishingly rare. Malware like we’re discussing here, that gets installed when the user is tricked into installing it, is a growing problem. It’s only in the last couple years that OSX market share cracked double digits. Historically, it hasn’t been worth the effort to write Mac malware - but that’s changing as Macs become more common. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m curious and non-partisan with this question: Do you write for a particular kind of client? Most of the problems I have are with users having Firefox with websites designed for IE. I’ve seen some sites that declare they are made for Firefox, but not at work. I wonder if most business and government sites encountered are written for IE. > And the problem occurs less and less. > Thanks! Speaking of market share, it wasn’t that long ago that IE had 95% of the users cornered. Nowadays, it’s still over 50%, with Firefox at around 20% and Chrome at around 10%. In some ways, life was actually easier when one browser ruled them all, because a developer could be reasonably certain that his page would display correctly. (And of ultimately, of course, life was far worse for everyone, because we’re talking about IE 6 & 7). Anyway, most business and government offices continue to use IE, and usually, older versions of IE, because they don’t update as often and because they want everyone in the company to use the same software. Compounding the problem is that corporate and government websites don’t get updated as often to use newer browsers because that would cost money and time. My answer to people who visit websites that don’t display correctly in Firefox is to tell them not to shop from people who can’t run a decent website. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/72 "2011-06-17T17:08:46Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s only in the last couple years that OSX market share cracked double digits. Aside: It’s not market share that’s relevant here, but installed base. Apple’s installed base is larger than its market share, since Mac owners tend to keep their machines for longer before replacing them than PC users. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/73 "2011-06-17T21:47:55Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Ask yourself this: “Does it seem crazy that we’ve gotten to the point where this is an acceptable behavior?” No, it does not seem crazy to me. It’s a lot better than the situation we used to have, which was that bugs and security holes didn’t get fixed until we actively sought out and downloaded a patch to install. By the way, for people who don’t want to deal with stuff like that, the [Chromebook](http://www.google.com/chromebook/) seems like a promising new option. It performs updates in the background without user intervention, for example. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/74 "2011-06-17T22:06:03Z")
> [@](#): > > An error occurred during the installation of assembly ‘microsoft.vc80.CRT’, Public Key Token=“1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b”, Type=“Win32”, Version=“8.0.50727.762” HRESULT: 0x8007054F Does anyone at Microsoft have any idea how infuriating messages like these are to the average computer user? Maybe Microsoft would be a little less hated if they would explain things to their customers in plain English. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/75 "2011-06-17T22:26:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’m curious and non-partisan with this question: Do you write for a particular kind of client? Most of the problems I have are with users having Firefox with websites designed for IE. I’ve seen some sites that declare they are made for Firefox, but not at work. I wonder if most business and government sites encountered are written for IE. > And the problem occurs less and less. > Thanks! We have to use IE to access the company web site because it was written specifically for IE. It works okay on Firefox, but is prone to weird behavior. And that is _the only website_ which has ever had problems with Firefox. I consider it a fault of the website developers, not of Firefox. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/76 "2011-06-17T23:46:58Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > No, it does not seem crazy to me. It’s a lot better than the situation we used to have, which was that bugs and security holes didn’t get fixed until we actively sought out and downloaded a patch to install. > > By the way, for people who don’t want to deal with stuff like that, the [Chromebook](http://www.google.com/chromebook/) seems like a promising new option. It performs updates in the background without user intervention, for example. Just because you’re used to it, and it’s been worse before, doesn’t make the status quo right. You should experience the alternative, it’s kinda nice. I’d hold off on that cloud storage thing, folks are still experiencing bleeding edge issues: [http://gizmodo.com/5813039/theres-a-virus-that-will-steal-all-your-bitcoins](http://gizmodo.com/5813039/theres-a-virus-that-will-steal-all-your-bitcoins) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/77 "2011-06-18T01:35:42Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > And that is _the only website_ which has ever had problems with Firefox. I consider it a fault of the website developers, not of Firefox. Yes, me too. But if students have to take a test, or teachers have to report grades, we have to go with IE. Interestingly enough, there was a state web tool that required that we not upgrade to the latest version of IE. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/78 "2011-06-18T01:47:49Z")
If I didn’t have to occasionally administrate cisco stuff, I wouldn’t have to have a windows 7 VM and IE…the biggest networking company on the planet and they code specifically to one browser. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/79 "2011-06-18T02:56:26Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Just because you’re used to it, and it’s been worse before, doesn’t make the status quo right. You should experience the alternative, it’s kinda nice. I guess I don’t see what’s “not right” about the system. And how exactly are Macs different? If I remember correctly, the Macbook I used to have had a similar auto-update system, as does my father’s iMac. > [@](#): > > I’d hold off on that cloud storage thing, folks are still experiencing bleeding edge issues: [http://gizmodo.com/5813039/theres-a-virus-that-will-steal-all-your-bitcoins](http://gizmodo.com/5813039/theres-a-virus-that-will-steal-all-your-bitcoins) I use Google Docs and Google Mail every day, and have no major complaints. Google Docs is not as feature-rich as Microsoft Office, but the convenience often outweighs it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734/80 "2011-06-18T03:14:03Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > If I didn’t have to occasionally administrate cisco stuff, I wouldn’t have to have a windows 7 VM and IE…the biggest networking company on the planet and they code specifically to one browser. 😕 We got a grant for Cisco switches and a router. I wasn’t running the joint then. They made our star LAN into a daisy chain. One fails every year and a whole series of buildings goes down. I replaced them with HP, and though I’m not running things again, I’ve convinced them to at least replace as fail with HP. Cisco costs thousands of dollars and has a three month warranty. HP costs hundreds of dollars and has a life time warranty. I had a sixteen port switch fail, and called them. The lady said, “I’m sorry Sir, all I have now are 32 port switches. Will that be all right?” I said, “Well, gee, I guess so.” 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-never-ever-buying-another-pc-again/585734.md?page=5)