# I am not a bad mother because I don't volunteer at school! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869 "2010-03-09T16:41:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/101 "2010-03-11T20:32:37Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > This thread certainly has been a fascinating read. I just hope that if/when I have kids, I’m able to participate how, when, and how much I choose, without being chastised from people on either extreme of the PTA participation spectrum. > > I have a question, though. How are fathers treated in this whole shebang? I’d be a stay-at-home dad if little ones come along. Don’t let those of us sounding off put you off getting involved at the school. Heck, maybe you are one of those go-getters who will be pissing people off with your over-exuberance! I found that Dads were looked on differently in Elementary school vs High school. Felt that way to me anyway. The little kids seemed kind awed and/or surprised to see an adult male shelving books or hanging out on a field trip. In high school there are sports that involve a lot of dads giving time, booster clubs, landscaping projects, mulch sales. Things tend to follow regular gender lines in my experience. Dads do outside/sports stuff, moms do cooking/inside work. More than once I felt like I was crashing the party when I, rather than my wife, showed up with the cupcakes or cookies. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/102 "2010-03-11T21:57:06Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > Not only do I not volunteer, I refuse to sell their stupid wrapping paper and cookie dough, too. Top that. My grad year, 2004: at the parent’s meeting, they were asked if they wanted to fundraise or just pay out of pocket for their child’s grad fees (around $200). It was a unanimous vote to just write cheques then and there. Like my mom said, I was the second kid and by this point they’d rather just pony up the cash than do fundraisers. Most of the students were from well-to-do families. I think some fundraising did occur though, each year liked to leave some cash for the next just in case. Off topic: we were the only school in the city to have a wet grad, meaning alcohol was available. All parents were sworn to secrecy as to the location of the wet grad (it occurred after all school-related functions, as the school wanted nothing to do with the alcohol part) and buses would just take us out after grad. This did nothing, as it was held at the same location _every damn year_. My brother graduated 10 years before me and it was the same place. ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/103 "2010-03-11T21:58:42Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > First of all, I absolutely do not understand your snarky and rude tone. This is a MPSIMS discussion about a fucking PTA, calm down over there, sparky. Speaking of snarky and rude tones, as was in your first post as well… You have no kids, correct? So you’ve never actually been in the situation of being a mom in any such group, don’t really know much, but are suddenly the expert on the PTA moms and on this mom in particular. Good for you. From a mom of three who has had kids in school for the last 18 years , this is exactly how some PTA/O groups operate. Your kids get into school and it’s like high school all over again. There is competition, cliques, gossip and backstabbing. It’s utterly ridiculous. I have no doubt that what this mom is saying is true. It is like that in our school system as well and starts with the Elementary Principal, who also lives in town, and just works its way right down. Not all the moms are like that, but there is a definite subgroup that acts just like they’re still in high school and they want to rule the school. I’ve always pretty much ignored them and done my own thing volunteering when I can and sending in the snacks for parties, etc and whatever else is helpful to my kids and their classroom. I did the room mom thing for quite awhile and have long since let the younger moms have their turn at it. If you go directly to the teacher and ask what’s needed in the classroom, giving her a good sense of what you can do time and task-wise, you’ll likely make a better connection there and that’s the important connection for your child. Those other moms mean nothing in the scheme of life and by the time the kids get to middle school, while there may still be some holdover, it diminishes and by high school, it’s pretty much done. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/104 "2010-03-11T22:01:46Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > My grad year, 2004: at the parent’s meeting, they were asked if they wanted to fundraise or just pay out of pocket for their child’s grad fees (around $200). It was a unanimous vote to just write cheques then and there. Our fifth graders fund raise to go off to camp. Its like $80 a kid or something they need to raise. We aren’t big door knockers in our house. We got the note that said our kid still needed to raise $80. We wrote a check for $200, the remainder being a donation towards anyone who was short. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/105 "2010-03-11T22:11:49Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > Speaking of snarky and rude tones, as was in your first post as well… You have no kids, correct? So you’ve never actually been in the situation of being a mom in any such group, don’t really know much, but are suddenly the expert on the PTA moms and on this mom in particular. Good for you. So, the fact that I’ve worked as both a teacher and director of an extra curricular program for the last 6 years (ie: dealing directly with these parents each and every single day) gives me absolutely no opinion on the matter? I never said I was an expert, I simply voiced another possible explanation for the attitudes she’s receiving. Is this opposite day on the Dope? Jesus. I give up. You guys are right, you win. I’ll stay out of your precious school-related threads, as I’ve never popped a kid out my crotch and thus, my opinion (based on my professional experience) means nothing. Down with the evil PTAs! ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/106 "2010-03-11T22:38:44Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > Speaking of snarky and rude tones, as was in your first post as well… You have no kids, correct? So you’ve never actually been in the situation of being a mom in any such group, don’t really know much, but are suddenly the expert on the PTA moms and on this mom in particular. Good for you. > > From a mom of three who has had kids in school for the last 18 years , this is exactly how some PTA/O groups operate. Your kids get into school and it’s like high school all over again. There is competition, cliques, gossip and backstabbing. It’s utterly ridiculous. I have no doubt that what this mom is saying is true. It is like that in our school system as well and starts with the Elementary Principal, who also lives in town, and just works its way right down. Not all the moms are like that, but there is a definite subgroup that acts just like they’re still in high school and they want to rule the school. I’ve always pretty much ignored them and done my own thing volunteering when I can and sending in the snacks for parties, etc and whatever else is helpful to my kids and their classroom. I did the room mom thing for quite awhile and have long since let the younger moms have their turn at it. Holy fuck, why is the fact she doesn’t have kids being dragged into _this_ thread. For God’s sake, don’t you dare EVER have an opinion on ANYTHING possibly related to kids unless you have them. Even if you, as she has said, teaches kids and is a high school debate coach. Honestly, I got the same impression from **Juliana** too; most people I know who will tell (or type) to others about someone else in such seething tones really can’t keep their dislike from showing in person. Maybe that’s not the case here. But maybe it is and that’s all **Diosa** was saying. It’s reminding me of the “popular versus unpopular” high school memories I’ve read, where unpopular people just assume that the “popular kids” were total nasty slutty bitches who hated them when a lot of the time, the “popular kids” were totally fine, not bitchy and didn’t really care about them (or even had been nice to them, but _clearly they were just being sarcastic to be so bitchy omg_). And I’m saying this as someone who was an unpopular kid. Sure there are bitchy PTAs out there. No doubt about it. But there are also people who _assume_ exclusion when there is none, and _just going by her first post there_, you couldn’t tell which was the case. ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/107 "2010-03-12T00:46:22Z")
First of all, teaching kids and coaching kids is a whole different world than being a parent with kids in a school system. Totally different perspective. I’ve done both. It is apples and oranges. And regardless of your experience, you don’t need to say things like this: DiosaBellissima in her first post: “Or maybe those “elitist snobs” are hip to what you really think of them. Frankly, I wouldn’t want someone around who thought so little of me either.” Read the second sentence. Rude and condescending assumption based on nothing but a WAG. And then gets all riled and defensive when called on it. You just said, “you couldn’t tell which was the case”. Why give her the pass to make a negative assumption? And what others are saying is that some of us who have experienced the same thing-- i.e. _being a parent of a school child dealing with a parent volunteer group_– have also experienced the same sort of group. If you have not had that experience of _being a parent of a school child_, then that makes it rather difficult to assess the situation from your own experience, which is something that was brought into the conversation later. The point is there are lots of similar experiences to back up what the OP was experiencing - which is what the thread is supposed to be about. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/108 "2010-03-12T00:53:17Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > First of all, teaching kids and coaching kids is a whole different world than being a parent with kids in a school system. Totally different perspective. I’ve done both. It is apples and oranges. And regardless of your experience, you don’t need to say things like this: Well, I hope that you don’t ever offer any opinion for anything you have not personally done, then. Since obviously there’s no way you can know about it (even if your job deals directly with it). ---
**Author:** ![Salem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Salem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/109 "2010-03-12T02:29:50Z")
I’ll be quite comfortable offering my opinions where I feel they’re relevant and keeping my mouth shut when I don’t feel they’re relevant. Put it this way, if the OP was a coach, complaining about how she was treated by a group of coaches, Since I’ve never been a coach (but I’ve been a player and my kids have been players), I wouldn’t have presumed to know what they were thinking or telling the OP I wouldn’t like her, either. Do you not get that? The post was written in a rude and presumptuous manner, as were subsequent posts. And this has derailed the OP and is way into hijack territory. The OP isn’t about you or me or diosa and I’m not going to continue the hijack in a circular discussion that isn’t relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869/110 "2010-03-12T20:53:22Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Do we have some problem from before I’m not aware of? Not at all; I’m aware of your username and have a vague sense of you (generally positive), but that’s about as far as it goes. > [@BigT](#): > > Seriously? You were snarky with your “forgive me”, so he was snarky back. Your comments were considered obnoxious to him, so he responded back to you in a similar manner. Thank you for summing up the (gradual) escalation concisely. And nicely. > [@](#): > > As for his initial point–while I wouldn’t have said it so rudely–I agree with him. One explication, if I may. My first response, in its entirety, was: > [@Digital Stimulus](#): > > > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > > > Or maybe those “elitist snobs” are hip to what you really think of them. Frankly, I wouldn’t want someone around who thought so little of me either. > > Which kinda sorta proves the “elitist snob” thing, doesn’t it? 'Cuz, with the sentiment expressed above, it’s all about the parents…right? Honestly, I (still) think that that was clear in meaning (despite its brevity and waffle-wording), while being rather polite in asking for clarification. > [@Salem](#): > > And this has derailed the OP and is way into hijack territory. The OP isn’t about you or me or diosa and I’m not going to continue the hijack in a circular discussion that isn’t relevant. Not to continue hijacking, but yes, it has. I’m making this post simply for closure, and so will acknowledge the following: [quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:93, topic:531869”] [moderating] This is definitely over the top for MPSIMS. No warning issued this time, but it needs to stop immediately. [/moderating] [/QUOTE] OK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-bad-mother-because-i-dont-volunteer-at-school/531869.md?page=5)