# I am not a criminal, but I keep hearing about the horrors of the Dark Web
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 20, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302 "2018-07-20T23:22:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 19
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/1 "2018-07-20T23:22:20Z")
And, actually, when I encounter something offensive I tend to backtrack. However, I’m curious how to find it.
And mods, if you find this as bad an idea as I think it is, please close the thread. But as Wife would say, “What’s the worst they can do but say no?”
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/2 "2018-07-20T23:31:57Z")
The dark web is simply an area of the internet your average searches don’t see. Google for example doesn’t search those sites.
It’s not necessarily all bad. Many small servers and web sites are ignored by Google. Some companies and private individuals have legitimate web sites that aren’t seen by Google.
Tor is the best known browser to search the dark web.
Just be careful what you search for.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/3 "2018-07-20T23:38:48Z")
Start with Wikipedia articles:
Dark Web:
> **[Dark web](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web)**
>
> The dark web is the World Wide Web content that exists on darknets: overlay networks that use the Internet but require specific software, configurations, or authorization to access. Through the dark web, private computer networks can communicate and conduct business anonymously without divulging identifying information, such as a user's location. The dark web forms a small part of the deep web, the part of the Web not indexed by web search engines, although sometimes the term The darknets whic...
Darknet Markets:
> **[Darknet market](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darknet_market)**
>
> A darknet market is a commercial website on the dark web that operates via darknets such as Tor and I2P. They function primarily as black markets, selling or brokering transactions involving drugs, cyber-arms, weapons, counterfeit currency, stolen credit card details, forged documents, unlicensed pharmaceuticals, steroids, and other illicit goods as well as the sale of legal products. In December 2014, a study by Gareth Owen from the University of Portsmouth suggested the sec Following on from th...
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### Author:  [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/4 "2018-07-20T23:40:20Z")
[Here](https://gizmodo.com/the-deep-web-is-mostly-full-of-garbage-1786857267) is a fairly recent article.
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### Author:  [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/5 "2018-07-20T23:42:44Z")
aceplace57, you’re confusing the [dark web](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web) with the [deep web](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_web), an unfortunately common mistake. The deep web is sites that are not indexed, eg. because the pages are generated dynamically based on form input, or because the page requires a login. For example, your bank’s web page that you see when you log in to your account is obviously not indexed by Google.
The dark web is sites that can only be accessed by special software like Tor, not ordinary browsers, and usually involves extra layers of encryption to anonymize its users. Because of the anonymous nature of dark web access, it’s used a lot for illegal activities.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/6 "2018-07-20T23:52:25Z")
If you could easily _find_ it, for instance using a search engine, then it wouldn’t be on the _dark_ web, now would it? You would have to get a link from somebody who knows it, or from an up-to-date list.
That does raise the interesting question of what exactly counts as “dark” and what content is out there. Certainly there are a lot of shady and/or criminal forums (e.g., a 2016 survey of web-based hidden services found that illicit drugs and illicit finance were the most common categories, at 15% and 12% respectively), but I would expect most random web pages to be boring internal private corporate sites, and a lot of so-called “hidden” services are totally advertised and searchable via search engines and therefore not dark in the least.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/7 "2018-07-20T23:57:50Z")
> [@markn\_1](#):
>
> The dark web is sites that can only be accessed by special software like Tor, not ordinary browsers, and usually involves extra layers of encryption to anonymize its users. Because of the anonymous nature of dark web access, it’s used a lot for illegal activities.
Who is making this distinction, though, and is it relevant? Most users don’t know or care what any software does on a technical level, so what’s the difference between an ordinary web site found through an ordinary search engine and accessible via an ordinary web browser, and a Tor web site on a Tor search engine and a Tor browser, except that the user may have had to install an extra plug-in or browser that supports additional protocols?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/8 "2018-07-20T23:59:16Z")
> [@markn\_1](#):
>
> aceplace57, you’re confusing the [dark web](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web) with the [deep web](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_web), an unfortunately common mistake. The deep web is sites that are not indexed, eg. because the pages are generated dynamically based on form input, or because the page requires a login. For example, your bank’s web page that you see when you log in to your account is obviously not indexed by Google.
>
> The dark web is sites that can only be accessed by special software like Tor, not ordinary browsers, and usually involves extra layers of encryption to anonymize its users. Because of the anonymous nature of dark web access, it’s used a lot for illegal activities.
I stand corrected. I didn’t know the difference in the terms.
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### Author:  [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/9 "2018-07-21T00:11:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Who is making this distinction, though, and is it relevant? Most users don’t know or care what any software does on a technical level, so what’s the difference between an ordinary web site found through an ordinary search engine and accessible via an ordinary web browser, and a Tor web site on a Tor search engine and a Tor browser, except that the user may have had to install an extra plug-in or browser that supports additional protocols?
Having to use Tor **is** the distinction. It’s more than just a browser plug-in, you also need the Tor software which often has the browser addons bundled in a single installer. Tor is analogous to a VPN and significantly changes how network traffic is handled. The separate browser software is just a convienence to have a browser preconfigured to access the Tor network without having to alter your normal browser settings.
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### Author:  [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/10 "2018-07-21T00:16:21Z")
The dark web is part of the deep web since it’s not indexed, but the distinction is VERY important for those who depend on the anonymizing behavior of dark web sites. You don’t want the police busting down your door because you bought your nuclear weapons on a deep web site instead of a dark web site.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/11 "2018-07-21T01:08:22Z")
The dark web is where you generally find kiddy porn sites, for example. _shudder_
Here’s an article [Cracked](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1760-5-things-i-learned-infiltrating-deep-web-child-molesters.html) did on it.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/12 "2018-07-21T02:30:07Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Who is making this distinction, though, and is it relevant? Most users don’t know or care what any software does on a technical level, so what’s the difference between an ordinary web site found through an ordinary search engine and accessible via an ordinary web browser, and a Tor web site on a Tor search engine and a Tor browser, except that the user may have had to install an extra plug-in or browser that supports additional protocols?
I’m still uninformed, but I think “extra”, though “free” might be, enough.
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> The dark web is where you generally find kiddy porn sites, for example. _shudder_
For a book I sacrificed a box to search for them. Google was still cooperative, but got less so as my research continued. I had my data and byline so I stopped caring.
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### Author:  [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/13 "2018-07-21T02:40:38Z")
It is worth highlighting the history of Tor, and the curious Faustian Bargain it entails.
Tor was originally developed with funding from DARPA and the US Navy. Why? Because they wanted a secure system by which secret communication could be performed without there even being any trace of the communication, let alone the content. The Tor system has the interesting property that it becomes more secure the more people that use it. If only government agents used it it would be trivially defeated. It is the presence of all the other traffic on the Tor network that provides the anonymising background. So the obvious course for the developers was to make the system freely available and encourage uptake. So you have the tension that defence wants to have Tor operate securely, whilst civilian law enforcement wants to break it.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/14 "2018-07-21T02:50:24Z")
As a sometime geek that is fascinating. Bookmarking.
Please note that this is not homework. 😉
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/15 "2018-07-21T02:51:59Z")
Is it painfully nostalgic that I don’t trust anyone online?
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### Author:  [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/16 "2018-07-21T12:31:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Who is making this distinction, though, and is it relevant? Most users don’t know or care what any software does on a technical level, so what’s the difference between an ordinary web site found through an ordinary search engine and accessible via an ordinary web browser, and a Tor web site on a Tor search engine and a Tor browser, except that the user may have had to install an extra plug-in or browser that supports additional protocols?
TOR isn’t just a browser. It is supported by thousands of servers all over the world which randomly route data to each other. Each time your data passes from one server to another it adds a layer of encryption. Each individual server doesn’t know where the data will ultimately end up. If people stopped hosting TOR data on their servers, the whole thing would fail. Capturing a TOR server doesn’t do much good, because it would not reveal much about who was transmitting data through that server. And yes, there are enthusiasts and activists whose hobby is hosting TOR servers for whatever ideological reason.
The whole point is that TOR users only talk to other TOR users, so as to maintain anonymity for all parties.
The TOR software allows users to touch “public” websites like anyone else, but with added layers of privacy. There is also the “dark web” which can only be accessed through TOR browser. The Dark Web is a network of sites overwhelmingly devoted to pedophiles, hackers, and contraband retailers. If you are not interested in these things, I really can’t see much reason to spend time on a “Dark Web” site. If you are selling legitimate products, for example, using a Dark site would be self-defeating. Journalists, political activists, and other people in danger of discovery might have a “legitimate” use for dark sites, but the average person does not.
Of course, a web-privacy activist would probably say that everyone should use TOR just for the protection it provides against snooping.
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### Author:  [@EricaRoche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EricaRoche)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/17 "2018-07-21T12:51:53Z")
Didn’t the NSA exploit a massive hole in TOR a few years ago?
I’ve been there and you find many dead .onion links. I came late to the scene (2014+) so I missed all the drugs, porn, and other illicit content that could be found in much greater quantity.
I think trust is also very hard to come buy as the hosts of some sites are leo’s (law enforcement officers) and will betray you if you’re ordering drugs or trading illegal porn.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/18 "2018-07-21T13:12:25Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Who is making this distinction, though, and is it relevant? Most users don’t know or care what any software does on a technical level, so what’s the difference between an ordinary web site found through an ordinary search engine and accessible via an ordinary web browser, and a Tor web site on a Tor search engine and a Tor browser, except that the user may have had to install an extra plug-in or browser that supports additional protocols?
For the purposes of the OP’s question, the distinction _is_ relevant. The deep web is a normal part of the web. Your web-based e-mail and your online banking are deep web. The dark web is a completely separate network that houses criminal activity—that’s what the OP is asking about.
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### Author:  [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-a-criminal-but-i-keep-hearing-about-the-horrors-of-the-dark-web/818302/19 "2018-07-21T13:47:07Z")
The most important distinction for the term “dark web” is being a fear-mongering term for the purpose of selling personal security services like life-lock and all that nonsense. There is no “separate network” for criminal activity - only higher-level and more obfuscated access controls. It’s all the same Internet.