I am not a murderer, mutantmoose. You, however, are a twit.

The BBQ Pit
141

y’know just as a side issue to everything else - one thing that strikes me is just how shit at hunting you all are. Whenever I go out walking in the woods I nearly always find a herd of deer or some other animal. I guess I’m just better at knowing where animals will be than you all are.

But fortunately for the deer I just want to look at it not shoot it dead. Fortunately for the deer the person on this thread who is actually the best at finding animals is the person who doesn’t want to harm them.

I can’t believe you fools can wander around in the woods for weeks without finding an animal. Not only are you evil killers, you’re also incompetent evil killers.

Well no offence but if I was your father I’d be glad to have missed the chance to see you come back hauling a dead blood-soaked ruminant. It’s not the kind of present I particularly appreciate. Can’t you just buy me some socks or something like normal people?

What are you, a cat or something? Comes back dragging it’s latest kill as a present.

You don’t have to kill it. You could always leave it alone.

Incompetent fool.

142

Not only are you a troll, you’re also an incomptetent troll. I suspect you’re also a sock, but whether or not that is so scarcely matters.
What would probably be the best policy is for those in this thread to continue the discussion amongst ourselves and not throw any more food pellets under the bridge.

With that in mind, who got to go hunting this year? My work schedule seldom permits me to hunt other than on opening day and, perhaps, one Saturday in deer season. Due to alterations in the calendar stemming from new building construction, I didn’t get to go at all this year. I promise not to be too envious of those of you who spent the winter feeding on yummy deer meat.

143

Obvious moose is obvious.

144

No. Most like the fact that the meat is cheaper if they shoot it themselves rather than buying it from the butcher, as I pointed out earlier.

I have four friends that are hunters. Not a one of them likes getting up at o-dark-thirty and sitting in a cold blind. They do it because the steak that goes on the table next weekend cost half or less than if they had bought it.

Are there some who like to hunt? Sure, there’s no denying that. But here’s a newsflash for you, Moose - big frigging deal. We are the top of the food chain. We are omnivores. We eat meat, whether killed by ourselves or someone else. And you have accomplished two things: you’ve made a mountain out of a molehill, and you’ve made a total ass of yourself in public.

145

You’re an idiot, then. I hunt. I hunt for the following reasons:

  1. Venison tastes great and you can’t buy it in most stores
  2. Hunting for venison is FAR cheaper than buying store-bought meats
  3. Hunting for venison is better for the animals and environment than buying store-bought meats.

Do you fucking see “enjoyment” or “fun” in there anywhere? Hell, no, it’s WORK to hunt, it just happens to have a return on investment that also makes it worthwhile.

Shit, if I want to have fun shooting things, I load up some target clays on a nice summer day, not freeze my goddamn ass off in a tree for a few hours at fucking dark o’clock in late fall.

146

Deer aren’t stupid, you twit. I invite you to take note, if you’re interested, in the difference in the visible herding deer population during legal hunting season compared to not-hunting-season. Around here, the deer know to go to the deep woods in late autumn because predators are about. I know this because I’m out in the woods at all times of year, and very rarely am I armed with a rifle and hunting license.

147

mutantmoose, you’re just wrong on this one. If my Dad and I both get a deer and we limit our meat consumption to 1-2x per week, we empty the freezer anywhere between July and September.

What about the economics of hunting? It is a hobby, you’re right about that. Unless a hunter brings down game consistently for a number of years, the investment in equipment could in fact render commercial meat cheaper. I’ve done it long enough that yes, for me hunting is an economical choice. Some folks are lucky enough to inherit much of their equipment, they’ll see savings over commercial meat sooner. If, however, I chose to spend my hobby time skiing, I’d have invested as much or more in equipment and time but have no meat to show for my efforts.

But it’s not just individual food costs. Every year I purchase a hunting license and tags for every species. A deer tag costs $25, elk $35 - good God I can’t believe how much it’s gone up since I was 12! That money goes directly to the Idaho Fish and Game and it’s used (ostensibly) to study Idaho’s wildlife, to improve habitat, and generally manage the state’s fauna. As a resident of Idaho I pay low license and tag fees, non-residents pay exorbitant prices to hunt, at least $200 for a license, $258 for deer tag, $375 for elk.

Hunters give Idaho’s wildlife economic value which means there is money available to manage and conserve it as a resource. It’s not just game animals that are protected because as conservationists, we understand that the ecosystem is an interdependent web. Hunters aren’t the only folks giving time and money to wildlife conservation but we do contribute a significant portion of the revenue.

I just don’t understand the objection to hunting. I fail to understand why I shouldn’t enjoy something that is beneficial to me and to wildlife. I mean, I voluntarily put up time, effort, and money to preserve the resources that everyone gets to enjoy.

For me, this isn’t about mutantmoose’s apparent hypocrisy. I don’t think that mutantmoose would have the moral high ground if he/she were a vegetarian. As Skald keeps mentioning, we’re all part of the natural world, when it comes to a question of meat/no meat, there is no moral issue, only personal preference.

I take issue with mutantmoose’s assertion that I’m abnormal or somehow disturbed because I enjoy hunting. I get it, we’re not going to see eye to eye on this issue but MM, you’ve taken such a hard line that I really want to understand.

Do you put me in the same category as the future serial killer next door that likes to burn the cat with a lighter?

148

C’mon guys. The moose is yanking your chain here.

149

Totally. He’s trollin’ ya’ll…big time.

-XT

150

If you feed a troll with arguments that you’ve hunted down… is he an accessory to murder?

151

Not if he gets someone else to pull the trigger…

-XT

152

I’m starting to think Mutantmoose is PRO hunting. He’s a uniter -so far he’s united vegetarians and carnivores, and generated some of the best pro-hunting, environmentally sound arguments I’ve heard in a while.

’Moose, could you start a thread on the middle east next?

153

I will not apologize for having eaten hunted meat. I will not be cowed for having shot a rabbit. (Which, by the way, is classified as a varmint.) I don’t hunt anymore myself, because I’m not confident I can do one shot kills due to my vision, even on deer. However, at least the rabbit I shot did drop instead of running off. It was a speedy, tricky thing, but I did hit it. I had to slit its throat as a matter of mercy though, a quicker death than what my shot would have given. How long do you think it takes to kill the cows, anyways? I’d bet it is longer than you think, and more painful too. I’d bet that it isn’t always instant, or even often instant.

And, for the record, I see plenty of animals when I am hiking, of many kinds. Today alone (late afternoon) we saw lizards, rabbit and squirrels. (As well as gulls, hawks, and turkey buzzards, and a bunch of other smaller birds. We heard, but didn’t spot a woodpecker.) Not to mention the deer tracks. I’ve seen bobcat tracks in the same area, and things like a rough green snake, three toed box turtles white cranes and a blue grey crane. (It wasn’t a sandhill crane, it was with white cranes and was all grey with no other markings. They sound like sandhill cranes though, having heard them a couple weeks ago on a PBS program about the fellow using his flier to help show them new migratory routes.)

In short, I am an unapologetic OMNIVORE. If I were able to reliably get one shot kills, I would still be hunting. I think we could make better use of the money we could save elsewhere. For the record, the Mr. works forty hour weeks at a warehouse, which pays him ten dollars an hour. For this area, that’s a good paycheck, actually. There are people in this town being paid minimum wage and trying to get by. Lots of 'em. Almost anyone you look at in passing here lives at, or below poverty. Hunting is survival, indeed! Here, at least.

Tell me, do you swat flies? What about ticks or fleas? Or, do you murder them? :dubious:

154

Also, when you can stand still enough (statueing I call it) that a squirrel forgets caution while frolicking with its sibling, and nearly mistakes you for in inanimate object, come talk to me. Because I’ve had that happen. I wanted to watch the young squirrels playing, so I froze in place, only moving my eyes. They were running all over the neighborhood, and finally ran partway up the tree that was beside me. One ran around and partway down the tree, and poised to jump on me at head level, then froze. I had blinked, and that was the only thing that prevented me from having squirrel scratches on my face.

155

AFAICT, folks calling him a troll are right. Congratulations for taking me in, I guess.

156

With that sort, whether or not you stand up for yourself and say what you think, they’ll keep on keeping on. I know I’ve spoken up more for myself, than for imparting any understanding to them. It’s a question of whether or not, in this instance you can walk away and be ok with yourself if you do remain silent, I guess?

157

That’s my take as well. When I spoke I was giving my point of view and attempted to impart my particular point of view about something that in my experience tends to be misunderstood by many people in the hopes that others would benefit. I have no doubts that mutantmoose is a troll, but it takes chickenshit to grow flowers sometimes. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

158

Cheney didn’t kill the lawyer. I guess he was afraid because a wounded lawyer can be dangerous. Would you want to follow one to finish him off? He might charge. :eek:

159

You waited a WEEK to come up with THAT?

160

And then left out that they charge by the hour?