# "I am not anti-guns. I am anti-bullet holes in my patients." **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 9, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268 "2018-11-09T23:42:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/322 "2018-11-21T06:18:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why “have to”? Takings must be recompensed. SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/323 "2018-11-21T08:22:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Takings must be recompensed. SCOTUS. My understanding of that is that it’s up for interpretation when the legality of the taken thing is non-existent. So, for instance, AIUI nobody was compensated for liquor or distilling equipment seized after Prohibition. Nobody gets compensated when their liquids are seized at airports, either. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/324 "2018-11-21T08:31:37Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well…how else would you propose getting them out of the public’s hands?[…snip…]How would you do it? I wouldn’t. Personally, the gun control I favour (apart from mandatory registration and periodic re-certification, same as for cars, aeroplanes, etc.) is fining the manufacturers truly _colossal_ amounts whenever their weapons and ammunition are proved to be used in any crime. But I’m not averse to private ownership of guns _per se_. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/325 "2018-11-21T08:53:15Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Wait. Are you comparing the right to breathe air with the right to own deadly weapons? I’m not only “comparing” them (I swear, “comparing” does not mean “equating”, or at least it didn’t use to and get out of my lawn before I throw a hardcover dictionary at you), I’m saying that in most countries both of them have in common that each of them is considered something which exists without anybody feeling the need to explicitly state that it exists. We reckon people have lots of rights which are not explicitly stated; many Americans (those who prefer literalist interpretations of any document) consider that no right exists unless explicitly stated, while tending to treat any stated right as limitless. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/326 "2018-11-21T09:32:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wouldn’t. > > Personally, the gun control I favour (apart from mandatory registration and periodic re-certification, same as for cars, aeroplanes, etc.) is fining the manufacturers truly _colossal_ amounts whenever their weapons and ammunition are proved to be used in any crime. But I’m not averse to private ownership of guns _per se_. Fining them just like cars and planes? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/327 "2018-11-21T11:24:32Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Fining them just like cars and planes? Nope. While I think they should have the same type of licensing requirements, there’s still a fundamental difference between cars/planes and guns: when a car or plane is used to kill or injure someone, it’s not doing so for the purpose it’s manufactured for. When a semi-auto gun injures or kills someone, it’s doing _exactly_ what the manufacturer intended. Different kind of liability there, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/329 "2018-11-21T11:49:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And of course only a tiny % of the 10000 gun murders each years is committed with assault weapons. Here’s the deal: if I don’t own a gun, don’t live in a violent neighborhood, and don’t live with a domestic abuser, then most of the risk factors leading to my being shot with a handgun are pretty much gone. So what am I worried about, for my own sake and that of my loved ones? Yeah, the mass shooter. He may be a statistically unlikely event, but (a) when he happens, he can kill dozens rather than just one or two, and (b) his occurrences are becoming more and more frequent - barely have time for thoughts and prayers between one and the next, these days. Now most Americans are in my risk situation. All those handgun shootings are real, and they result in way more deaths, but for most Americans, there’s a pretty powerful SEP field\* surrounding them. But our kids go through active shooter drills at school, and many of us have to take active shooter training at work. It’s not Somebody Else’s Problem; it’s on our radar. So this is why the weapons of mass destruction, so to speak, are the focus for many of us these days. You can argue right or wrong, but this is where it’s coming from. \*SEP field = Somebody Else’s Problem field. Renders things invisible, even when they’re in plain sight. From the third HHG book. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/330 "2018-11-21T19:44:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I wouldn’t. > > Personally, the gun control I favour (apart from mandatory registration and periodic re-certification, same as for cars, aeroplanes, etc.) is fining the manufacturers truly _colossal_ amounts whenever their weapons and ammunition are proved to be used in any crime. But I’m not averse to private ownership of guns _per se_. OK, then let’s fine the car manufacturers whenever their vehicles are used in a crime.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/331 "2018-11-21T19:46:56Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nope. While I think they should have the same type of licensing requirements, there’s still a fundamental difference between cars/planes and guns: when a car or plane is used to kill or injure someone, it’s not doing so for the purpose it’s manufactured for. When a semi-auto gun injures or kills someone, it’s doing _exactly_ what the manufacturer intended. Different kind of liability there, IMO. No, sorry, civilian guns are not designed to kill people. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/332 "2018-11-21T20:41:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, sorry, civilian guns are not designed to kill people. Of course they are. Oh, you can \*use \*them for plinking at targets, but they’re \*designed \*to put holes in human beings. I’m referring to regular semi-auto pistols and rifles, here, of course, not fowling pieces or purpose-built sports shooters. And even the most ardent “Oh, I use \*my \*AR-15 for hunting” sophist would have to be truly disingenuous not to admit that despite the use they’re putting it to, the weapon they’re using was \*actually \*designed to kill people. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/333 "2018-11-21T20:56:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Of course they are. > > Oh, you can \*use \*them for plinking at targets, but they’re \*designed \*to put holes in human beings. I’m referring to regular semi-auto pistols and rifles, here, of course, not fowling pieces or purpose-built sports shooters. > > And even the most ardent “Oh, I use \*my \*AR-15 for hunting” sophist would have to be truly disingenuous not to admit that despite the use they’re putting it to, the weapon they’re using was \*actually \*designed to kill people. Again they are not. Look in order for a thing to be designed for doing X. that thing must do X a significant amount of time. Guns do not kill people in a significant amount- per gun. The “assault weapons” are designed to appeal to a certain type of buyer. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/334 "2018-11-21T21:02:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look in order for a thing to be designed for doing X. that thing must do X a significant amount of time. Nope, that’s a ridiculous requirement. For a thing to be designed to do X, all that is required is that the designers intend it to be used for doing X. Go on, tell me the Armalite engineers \*didn’\*t intend their gun, which they submitted to the US military, to be used to kill people, I could use the laugh. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/335 "2018-11-21T21:06:46Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > …and as predicted it devolves into a battle over exact terminology and knowing every last legal or regulatory provision… I was thinking about this. Yes, people who know about guns do expect "gun grabbers’ to have specialized knowledge about the things they want to ban. Having gross ignorance about guns is very much like supporting drug laws but knowing littler true facts. It’s like saying \*"We have a huge problem with drugs here in the USA. Most of it can be laid upon those who want to legalize Marijuana. Marijuana is a dangerously addictive opioid, and one “toke” as the “potheads” say can make you a lifelong addict. Even worse, drug dealers hand out free samples to kids on the street corners, “pot” is a common “gateway” drug. We could be winning the war on drugs by stricter drug laws! Yes, the current drug laws don’t work, because you can just bring in drugs from another area. What isnt a issue is prescription drugs, because of course doctors will make sure you dont get addicted to them." - :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/336 "2018-11-21T21:07:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nope, that’s a ridiculous requirement. For a thing to be designed to do X, all that is required is that the designers intend it to be used for doing X. > > Go on, tell me the Armalite engineers \*didn’\*t intend their gun, which they submitted to the US military, to be used to kill people, I could use the laugh. They did intend for the fully auto M16 to kill people, yes. But the designers of civilian guns hope their products never kill anyone. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/337 "2018-11-21T21:09:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They did intend for the fully auto M16 to kill people, yes. > > But the designers of civilian guns hope their products never kill anyone. It’s the same designer, same gun. “oh, but it’s got a different lower receiver…” isn’t much of an argument with me, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/338 "2018-11-21T21:18:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s the same designer, same gun. “oh, but it’s got a different lower receiver…” isn’t much of an argument with me, I’m afraid. \*\* Fully auto.\*\* Again the ignorance over technical terminology comes into play. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/339 "2018-11-21T21:43:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, sorry, civilian guns are not designed to kill people. Would anybody buy them if they were designed so as not to kill people? There are any number of products e.g. medicines etc which are designed to be, and are effective cures but are banned/highly regulated because when used for purposes they were not designed for they kill orders of magnitude less people than hand guns. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/340 "2018-11-21T21:55:56Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The question is, whether or not banning them violates the letter of the 2nd amendment, and there’s no possible reading of the actual words of the amendment that allows for the banning of military grade weaponry. If there’s no possible reading of the actual words of the Second Amendment on banning guns, how is it that knives with long blades, throwing stars, numchucks and other things are banned in some places. The Second Amendment nowhere mentions guns. It mentions “arms” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/341 "2018-11-21T22:10:54Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > Would anybody buy them if they were designed so as not to kill people? > > . No, civilians buy them as they “look cool”. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268/342 "2018-11-21T22:38:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They did intend for the fully auto M16 to kill people, yes. > > But the designers of civilian guns hope their products never kill anyone. As the saying goes, “hope is not a plan.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-not-anti-guns-i-am-anti-bullet-holes-in-my-patients/824268.md?page=18)