# I am Pitting the stupid question: Do you want to cancel Medicare? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079 "2009-08-28T20:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/201 "2009-08-31T20:47:40Z")
One other thing. Once you’ve eliminated the lowest common denominator (whatever that is) from your schools, some other group will become the lowest common denominator you shouldn’t waste money educating. There’s always a bottom rung no matter how high your ladder goes. Why not ditch them too? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/202 "2009-08-31T20:57:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You don’t know; you just don’t want the government to do it. > > . . . > > Well, until you can come up with something better, I’m content with the government running it. Like the majority of the country. I don’t want to be snarky but I’d rather rely on myself until someone can convince me otherwise. Man, I knew I should have pretended like the rest of you that I _KNEW_ what was best!! “One other thing. Once you’ve eliminated the lowest common denominator (whatever that is) from your schools, some other group will become the lowest common denominator you shouldn’t waste money educating. There’s always a bottom rung no matter how high your ladder goes. Why not ditch them too?”- The Tooth If you had bothered to read and follow along the discussion, I say nothing about ditching anyone. I want them brought up to par so that the ladder extends upward, not trending to the bottom. Think x^2 , not 2/x or x/2 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/203 "2009-08-31T21:08:18Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I honestly don’t know and I am open to suggestions. I will tell you that I don’t particularly want to government running it. I don’t believe they are up to the task. Nobody is up to the task (except God, and He was distracted by something shiny 2300 years ago and hasn’t been seen or heard from since). Of course, “up to the task” isn’t the standard that needs to be met, is it? That standard is “better than what we have now”. I think that the gov can do that, based on data from other countries where it’s been doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/204 "2009-08-31T21:12:16Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > If you had bothered to read and follow along the discussion, I say nothing about ditching anyone. I want them brought up to par so that the ladder extends upward, not trending to the bottom. Think x^2 , not 2/x or x/2 How much of a tax increase are you willing to support to fund this massive new social program? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/205 "2009-08-31T21:17:59Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Nobody is up to the task (except God, and He was distracted by something shiny 2300 years ago and hasn’t been seen or heard from since). > > Of course, “up to the task” isn’t the standard that needs to be met, is it? That standard is “better than what we have now”. I think that the gov can do that, based on data from other countries where it’s been doing so. If that is all the standard that needs to be met, then I can safely say that I will take on the job. For a bit less than what you planned on funding the government. (not much less though, I want to make a profit) ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/206 "2009-08-31T21:20:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How much of a tax increase are you willing to support to fund this massive new social program? I believe it was called “No Child Left Behind” and it is still being funded btw. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/207 "2009-08-31T21:35:43Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > If that is all the standard that needs to be met, then I can safely say that I will take on the job. > > For a bit less than what you planned on funding the government. (not much less though, I want to make a profit) I compliment you on your humor, and accept your concession of the point. The current system is very bad, and the government can do much better for the populace than it does (or than you could do). In return for your concession, I will concede that there are probably aspects of the Obamaplan that are not optimal, and could be improved upon. Personally I think we need more death panels. You can never have enough death panels. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/208 "2009-08-31T21:38:33Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > If you had bothered to read and follow along the discussion, I say nothing about ditching anyone. I want them brought up to par so that the ladder extends upward, not trending to the bottom. Think x^2 , not 2/x or x/2 I don’t think that’s what you want at all. You want government not to be involved. I don’t see you arguing, or even claiming, that doing so would improve matters. You come across as declaring some people to be more deserving of necessities than others based on their material worth. That an educated society is better off than an ignorant one ought to go without saying; that’s how educating people even if they’re poor (or ‘catering to the lowest common denominator’ as you put it) improves society. Consider how much better the world would be if Sean Hannity hadn’t dropped out of school and gone into radio. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/209 "2009-08-31T21:41:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I compliment you on your humor, and accept your concession of the point. The current system is very bad, and the government can do much better for the populace than it does (or than you could do). > > In return for your concession, I will concede that there are probably aspects of the Obamaplan that are not optimal, and could be improved upon. > > Personally I think we need more death panels. You can never have enough death panels. I do believe that somewhere in between our jesting propositions, an answer lies. I have no argument against the current system being a bad one. Rushing to get a bill passed so that you can point to it and say ‘AH-HA’ isn’t the scenario I want. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/210 "2009-08-31T21:51:28Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I believe it was called “No Child Left Behind” and it is still being funded btw. Actually it never was funded sufficiently, that was the problem. It imposed testing requirements in order to receive federal eduction money. It did not provide any money to improve schools, or make teaching more effective, or even pay for the testing that was required. It is the epitome of an unfunded mandate. Talk to an elementary school teacher about how successful NCLB has been. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/211 "2009-08-31T21:54:13Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Muslim socialist communist totalitarians _with death panels_. Don’t forget the death panels. Who weren’t even born in the US!!! (Have we ever had a real, live, honest-to-goodness Freeper here before?) ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/212 "2009-08-31T22:14:05Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I do believe that somewhere in between our jesting propositions, an answer lies. I have no argument against the current system being a bad one. Rushing to get a bill passed so that you can point to it and say ‘AH-HA’ isn’t the scenario I want. You ain’t gonna get the scenario you want. (Me, I wanna pony. Mmm, horsemeat.) Your options are supporting the obamaplan, supporting the current plan, using your political impotence as an excuse to complain about whoever wins, or executing a bloody coup and overthrowing the goverment and imposing your own will by dictatorial mandate. What’s it gonna be? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/213 "2009-09-01T20:17:35Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I don’t think that’s what you want at all. You want government not to be involved. I don’t see you arguing, or even claiming, that doing so would improve matters. You come across as declaring some people to be more deserving of necessities than others based on their material worth. That an educated society is better off than an ignorant one ought to go without saying; that’s how educating people even if they’re poor (or ‘catering to the lowest common denominator’ as you put it) improves society. > > Consider how much better the world would be if Sean Hannity hadn’t dropped out of school and gone into radio. I know, right? Imagine him as a senator or the president. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/214 "2009-09-01T20:19:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Actually it never was funded sufficiently, that was the problem. It imposed testing requirements in order to receive federal eduction money. It did not provide any money to improve schools, or make teaching more effective, or even pay for the testing that was required. It is the epitome of an unfunded mandate. Talk to an elementary school teacher about how successful NCLB has been. I know it was unsuccessful. Therein lies the problem with “letting the government do it” What they want to do and what they can be successful doing are two distinct entities no matter what some of you guys like to think. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/215 "2009-09-01T20:22:23Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I know it was unsuccessful. Therein lies the problem with “letting the government do it” Gee, an administration ideologically opposed to government-run services built a government program that doesn’t work. I’m SHOCKED. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/216 "2009-09-01T20:22:43Z")
True of just about every human endeavor since the dawn of time. What’s your point? A human endeavor under the auspices of a government is no more, nor any less likely to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/217 "2009-09-01T20:26:39Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You ain’t gonna get the scenario you want. (Me, I wanna pony. Mmm, horsemeat.) Your options are supporting the obamaplan, supporting the current plan, using your political impotence as an excuse to complain about whoever wins, or executing a bloody coup and overthrowing the goverment and imposing your own will by dictatorial mandate. What’s it gonna be? I threw my vote away to the ‘third’ party. My own personal beliefs are as long as we have a two party system, we will continue to trend downwards in the political spectrum. I believe we should institute term limits onto political figures. No longer should they be allowed to linger. The framers of the constitution sure didn’t. They should work to better our country during their careers as something other than a lifetime politician. Some restriction (like transparency) needs to be placed upon special interest groups so that we can limit their influence. We shouldn’t have to rely on the GNP to pick our “choices”, they should be put forth at the local level and work ever upward. Give a third party some decent air time. I could go on and on. I am a conservative, not a republican. Most of my ideals would come off as libertarian but the voting system doesn’t recognize that other than to put “other” as the label. As long as people justify “your choices are”, we will never leave the path we are currently on and our country will stagnate. I will make my own choices. So no, my choices aren’t just the Obamaplan or the status quo. I’m not complaining about who won. I am complaining that we aren’t given enough choice. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/218 "2009-09-01T20:28:09Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Gee, an administration ideologically opposed to government-run services built a government program that doesn’t work. I’m SHOCKED. :rolleyes: You say this like you believe it to be true? The republican party of today is not the republican party of yesteryear. The Republicans want big government these days just as much as the Dems do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/219 "2009-09-01T20:29:13Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > I know, right? Imagine him as a senator or the president. What would a senator or the President be doing selling used cars? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/220 "2009-09-01T20:32:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > True of just about every human endeavor since the dawn of time. What’s your point? A human endeavor under the auspices of a government is no more, nor any less likely to fail. Let me get this right so I know how to argue against it (since, well it is you) As long as the government proposes a tumor of spending that is likely to encompass a lot (and by a lot, I mean EVERYONE) as a “good for society thing”, it’s ok no matter how it is run or even if it’s possible? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=12)