# I am Pitting the stupid question: Do you want to cancel Medicare? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079 "2009-08-28T20:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/21 "2009-08-28T21:10:57Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > You have contributed $200K to medicare over 30 years? > > 200,000 / .029 ~ 6,896,500 > > You’ve **averaged** $230K in salary over the past 30 years? Not impossible, I know. Just curious. I am including employer contribution – use .09 ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/22 "2009-08-28T21:11:18Z")
Know what _else_ happened in history? Hitler! Why do you support a nazi history? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/23 "2009-08-28T21:11:46Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > You have an answer? I would love to hear it. If the politicians and lefties can’t answer my question, they shouldn’t ask theirs. An answer to what? Do I want to cancel Medicare? No, I don’t want to cancel medicare. I don’t hate old and sick people and wish to revel in their suffering. Not even if I personally had mad invezting skillz which would leave me sitting on a giant pile of money from which to laugh manically as the rest of the populace suffers. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/24 "2009-08-28T21:12:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > _Crazy_ history. You must live somewhere other than the USA. Or you get your “facts” from keith oberman and chrissy matthews. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/25 "2009-08-28T21:13:29Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > You must live somewhere other than the USA. Or you get your “facts” from keith oberman and chrissy matthews. I just don’t disbelieve in the transportation department. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/26 "2009-08-28T21:14:18Z")
If the private sector is so much more efficient than the government, then why are insurance companies so askeered of having to compete with a public option for health care? ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/27 "2009-08-28T21:14:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > An answer to what? Do I want to cancel Medicare? No, I don’t want to cancel medicare. I don’t hate old and sick people and wish to revel in their suffering. > > Not even if I personally had mad invezting skillz which would leave me sitting on a giant pile of money from which to laugh manically as the rest of the populace suffers. If you aren’t asking the question, then you are just on the sidelines. As I said, this is a leftie talking point that I want put to rest. And 8% ROI across 45 years is NOT mad investing skills. It would be a kindness to the old get their money back, or to just phase it out. I am not the one who asked the question, they are. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/28 "2009-08-28T21:16:13Z")
Oh for fuck’s sake. I formally accuse freedumb2003 of either being a troll, or just being a rampant idealogue who didn’t come here for discussion, but to try to wag his conservative dick around. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/29 "2009-08-28T21:16:48Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > You don’t account for time nor do you account for employer contribution (6%). The 6% is for Social Security, not Medicare. Medicare employer+employee contribution is 2.9%. I did not account for time in order to keep it fairly simple. Sure, $1400 can grow to $13,000 over time, but what are you doing for healthcare today? Where’s today’s outlay coming from? > [@](#): > > The idea is to hold these until after you are 65 (same rules as Medicare) – run the numbers for 45 years and try again. You plan to consume no healthcare until you are 65? Once again, I salute you, sir! > [@](#): > > A 1400 base invested with a 8% ROR and only $1000 a year for 45 years is over $500,000. I don’t know what ROR is. If you can get a guarateed 8% year-over-year for 45 years, awesome. 30-year [CDs](http://www.bankrate.com/bir/) right now are cranking out a mighty 5.3% > [@](#): > > That is withOUT the employer contribution I took the employer contribution into account > [@](#): > > You need to work a bit on your math skills. I’ll take a look at that. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/30 "2009-08-28T21:17:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If the private sector is so much more efficient than the government, then why are insurance companies so askeered of having to compete with a public option for health care? Because what will happen is that when the gummit says “we are in the health/health insurance business and you will pay no matter what” then businesses will (wisely) drop all coverage, since why pay twice for the same thing? They walk away and the health care industry collapses (probably causing a greater depression than 1929, much less the blip we are riding). It makes no economic sense and it makes no moral sense. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/31 "2009-08-28T21:19:48Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > including the Employer % (which would have gone to me if not Uncle Sam), … New to capitalism, are you? In other words, I do not believe that is a safe assumption. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/32 "2009-08-28T21:19:53Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > The 6% is for Social Security, not Medicare. Medicare employer+employee contribution is 2.9%. > > I did not account for time in order to keep it fairly simple. Sure, $1400 can grow to $13,000 over time, but what are you doing for healthcare today? Where’s today’s outlay coming from? > > You plan to consume no healthcare until you are 65? Once again, I salute you, sir! > > I don’t know what ROR is. If you can get a guarateed 8% year-over-year for 45 years, awesome. 30-year [CDs](http://www.bankrate.com/bir/) right now are cranking out a mighty 5.3% > > I took the employer contribution into account > > I’ll take a look at that. I reran it at 5% and you still get 3/4 of a million. And long-term investments over 20 years have been doing in the 9% range. You have to ignore the blips like 9/11 and the obama drop – the trend of moderately aggressive investment does better than 8%. Cds iare not a valid comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/33 "2009-08-28T21:21:44Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > That is withOUT the employer contribution (which should go to you as opposed to the gummit, which has to give it back to someone and I can make a strong argument it would have been a benefit) – lets do the numbers at $4,500 and $4,500 a year for 45 years: that is over 2 MILLION! The magical employer contribution wouldn’t exist if not for Medicare. It’d just be additional employer profit. Pretending that you’d get all of it if there were no Medicare is either stupid or disingenuous. _reviews posting history_ I’ll go with stupid. > [@](#): > > freedumb2003, I really can’t figure you out. You’ve been here 2 days and every post you’ve made is such overblown, cliche conservative vitriol you seem like some lefter trying to parody a righter. I’ve been starting to think that too- he always seems just moments away from busting out with a “why do you hate America?” ETA: **Bayard** is correct- there _is_ no 6% employer contribution. The employer contribution is 1.45%; the employee contribution is 1.45%. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/34 "2009-08-28T21:22:23Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > New to capitalism, are you? In other words, I do not believe that is a safe assumption. Capitalist for many many years. I think that it is appropriate to refund the employer contribution to the employee who worked to create it. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn’t but if the politicians and lefties are going to hold up Medicare as “Government Health Care That Works” then they need to look at the entire alternative. It is a specious argument on their side and must be exposed as such. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/35 "2009-08-28T21:23:08Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > If you aren’t asking the question, then you are just on the sidelines. As I said, this is a leftie talking point that I want put to rest. > > And 8% ROI across 45 years is NOT mad investing skills. It would be a kindness to the old get their money back, or to just phase it out. I am not the one who asked the question, they are. Okay, you hate Medicare, it’s laid to rest. You resolved it in your OP. And, it’s not like you can wait until you are 65 and then _start_ buying medical insurance. You’d never qualify. You have to pay into insurance _that whole time_ at vastly higher rates, or expect your investment to pay for _uninsured_ medical care. So yeah - your math is delusional. And the old people are really opposed to Medicare? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/36 "2009-08-28T21:23:10Z")
Do you want to cancel VA benefits while you’re at it? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/37 "2009-08-28T21:23:36Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > I am including employer contribution – use .09 This is incorrect. I have my latest social security statement in front of me. The current Medicare tax for the individual is 1.45% and 1.45% for the employer. The max you should have to pay is 2.9%. Want to try again. So what do you do to average over $250,000 a year over 30 years and you can’t add 1.45 + 1.45? ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/38 "2009-08-28T21:23:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The magical employer contribution wouldn’t exist if not for Medicare. It’d just be additional employer profit. > > Pretending that you’d get all of it if there were no Medicare is either stupid or disingenuous. > > _reviews posting history_ > > I’ll go with stupid. > > I’ve been starting to think that too- he always seems just moments away from busting out with a “why do you hate America?” Why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/39 "2009-08-28T21:24:26Z")
[quote=“freedumb2003, post:9, topic:508079”] [quote=“samclem, post:2, topic:508079”] > [@freedumb2003](#): > > If I got back the money I put into Medicare for my working life I could invest it into a conservative set of investments and pay for high quality medical insurance for the rest of my life and have money left – no government needed. > Well, I have contributed around $200,000 over the last 30 years (that goes up a lot over the next 10 years), so, using round figures, if I could have invested that money (lets say it totals 50K and including the Employer % (which would have gone to me if not Uncle Sam), a 40 year 50K investment for 40 years us about a million – more than enough to pay for medical insurance. What about those of us lowlies who don’t have the (relatively) large annual income from which to draw money to invest? > [@](#): > > But it doesn’t answer the underlying question: Mr./Ms. Politician? If you want to posit removing Medicare then you damn well better posit reimbursing the money you stole for it. Stole? For real? Taxes do not equal theft, even if the government is spending money on things that you reeeeealy don’t like. You’re making yourself sound (more) like a looney. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/40 "2009-08-28T21:25:06Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > freedumb2003, I really can’t figure you out. You’ve been here 2 days and every post you’ve made is such overblown, cliche conservative vitriol you seem like some lefter trying to parody a righter. This seems likely to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=3)