# I am Pitting the stupid question: Do you want to cancel Medicare? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079 "2009-08-28T20:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/61 "2009-08-28T21:43:35Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > I only hate those who would undermine her and drag her down. Like the current administration and most democrats. And poor people. And old people. And anybody who isn’t filthy rich… ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/62 "2009-08-28T21:44:46Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “TOTUS-reading”? Huh? Teleprompter Of The USA. The dilettante who has never done anything in his life who sold America on a bill of goods can’t utter 3 words without a Teleprompter, whose words are supplied by his eminence grice handlers. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/63 "2009-08-28T21:44:57Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > You have to ignore the blips like 9/11 and the obama drop – the trend of moderately aggressive investment does better than 8%. Cds iare not a valid comparison. “The Obama drop?” Good Lord, I’m now picturing a cheesy Disney film, where a Republican elephant is pushed out of an airplane. Without a parachute. “As God is my witness, I thought elephants could fly.” - John McCain ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/64 "2009-08-28T21:46:15Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > OK – 3% of 50K is 1500 – over 45 years at 8% (again a reasonable rate given history) is nearly $700,000 – still enough to buy private health care, especially if it continues to earn > > It doesn’t change anything and I should never have let myself get dragged down into irrelevancies. If a politican asks “who wants to get rid of Medicare” the proper response is “do you want to refund us?” > > Which was the original point. Oh, “do you want to refund us?” was the question you wanted me to answer! I get it now. “We’ll refund you exactly as much as private insurance does when you break your contract with them.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/65 "2009-08-28T21:47:15Z")
And all the way down, the elephant is heard to say “Well, so far, so good”… ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/66 "2009-08-28T21:47:29Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > !00% real. Google me… OK, I did. And I found this: > **[Straight Dope Message Board SO LIBERAL that you can't even talk about Mary Jo...](https://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2325424/posts?page=65)** A post on Free Republic called _“Straight Dope Message Board SO LIBERAL that you can’t even talk about Mary Jo Kopechne”_ which was started mere minutes before you signed up here. So I retract my accusation of being a parody, and reassert my accusation of trollery. You’re an ignorant zealot who wanted to come here to rustle up some trouble after someone posted a thread about how craaaazy liberal it is here. Cuz you sure loves tramplin some liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/67 "2009-08-28T21:47:45Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > … eminence grice … grise You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/68 "2009-08-28T21:49:01Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > And poor people. And old people. And anybody who isn’t filthy rich… Not what I said. You don’t help the poor by patting them on the head and giving them sandwiches. You help them by providing opportunities to produce and excel. People make choices in their lives. I don’t own those choices, don’t ask me to subsidize them. I was born into poverty and knew from an early age that the way out is by applying myself. I believe all people can excel. It is a paternalistic ideology that says otherwise. Society must help those who cannot help themselves. The very young, the unborn, the infirm, the aged. It is our duty, which is why I give to charities such as Midnight Mission and CCF – they help people help themselves and helps those who can’t. People have inherent dignity. Handouts destroy that dignity. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/69 "2009-08-28T21:50:06Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > grise > > You’re welcome. There’s a spell-nazi on every thread everywhere on the Interwebz 😉 I sometimes wonder if it the same person with a LOT of time… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/70 "2009-08-28T21:51:11Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Oh, “do you want to refund us?” was the question you wanted me to answer! I get it now. > > “We’ll refund you exactly as much as private insurance does when you break your contract with them.” Or maybe twice as much as your insurer refunds when they cancel your cancer treatment because being an “outie” is a pre-existing condition. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/71 "2009-08-28T21:52:16Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > OK, I did. > > And I found this: > > [Straight Dope Message Board SO LIBERAL that you can't even talk about Mary Jo Kopechne](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2325424/posts?page=65) > > A post on Free Republic called _“Straight Dope Message Board SO LIBERAL that you can’t even talk about Mary Jo Kopechne”_ which was started mere minutes before you signed up here. > > So I retract my accusation of being a parody, and reassert my accusation of trollery. You’re an ignorant zealot who wanted to come here to rustle up some trouble after someone posted a thread about how craaaazy liberal it is here. Cuz you sure loves tramplin some liberals. I have been open and honest. I am no troll, I am what I am. Are you suggest I be banned? Or are you just unable to address my premise, which remains unchallenged so far? Choose, but choose wisely. I like it here – you guys are fun. Your ability to repeat talking points quickly is pretty amazing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/72 "2009-08-28T21:54:16Z")
Freeper cooties! AAAAaaaarrgh! ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/73 "2009-08-28T21:54:36Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > OK – 3% of 50K is 1500 – over 45 years at 8% (again a reasonable rate given history) is nearly $700,000 – still enough to buy private health care, especially if it continues to earn OK, I still dispute the idea that you can realistically keep up an 8% year-over-year for 45 years, but we’ll lay that aside for now. I’ll also stipulate that your employer will, out of the goodness of his heart, add his 1.45% contribution to your paycheck instead of, say, using it to pay off his debt. So, you wind up with a spare $1500 each year. And, you’re going to sock away that $1500/year so you can build up 700K by the time you’re 65. This 700K will be used to pay for your post-65 health care. OK. Now, what are you doing for health care between ages 0 and 65? You will need insurance in that time period. Your $1500/year is spoken for. What now? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/74 "2009-08-28T21:54:37Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > Not what I said. You don’t help the poor by patting them on the head and giving them sandwiches. You help them by providing opportunities to produce and excel. People make choices in their lives. I don’t own those choices, don’t ask me to subsidize them. > > I was born into poverty and knew from an early age that the way out is by applying myself. I believe all people can excel. It is a paternalistic ideology that says otherwise. > > Society must help those who cannot help themselves. The very young, the unborn, the infirm, the aged. It is our duty, which is why I give to charities such as Midnight Mission and CCF – they help people help themselves and helps those who can’t. > > People have inherent dignity. Handouts destroy that dignity. Your third paragraph contradicts the rest of this. “all people can excel.” “those who can’t.” Cognitive dissonance, thy name is conservative. Not to say that there _aren’t_ people who can work their way out of poverty. They of course are the ones who are already _doing_ so. But if we pretend really hard, we can make believe that they would do even better without the support the goverment gives them. And if we pretend _really_ hard we can make believe that all the rest of the people who have fallen on hard times simply don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/75 "2009-08-28T21:54:48Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I’m afraid to point out that not everybody has the same amount of money. > > Because that would be pretty communist. When putting numbers together you have to make assumptions to have a starting spot. My income is well above the median. And the taxes I pay WAY above the median taxpayer. So, to all of you, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/76 "2009-08-28T21:55:46Z")
I suggest you would fucking love to be banned, because it would get your dick hard to be BANISHED FROM THIS DEN OF LIBERALISM. All you want to do is wag around your republican ideals. You have no interest in actual discussion, and this is the stupidest thread ever. I suggest you just go away, because you aren’t going to accomplish anything here. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/77 "2009-08-28T21:56:27Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > Or are you just unable to address my premise, which remains unchallenged so far? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/78 "2009-08-28T22:00:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Your third paragraph contradicts the rest of this. “all people can excel.” “those who can’t.” Cognitive dissonance, thy name is conservative. > > Not to say that there _aren’t_ people who can work their way out of poverty. They of course are the ones who are already _doing_ so. But if we pretend really hard, we can make believe that they would do even better without the support the goverment gives them. And if we pretend _really_ hard we can make believe that all the rest of the people who have fallen on hard times simply don’t exist. A distinction without a difference. It isn’t cognitive dissonance, it is slightly clumsy phasing. All people can excel, but some have barriers to that excellence. Government should help – but that help should be removing barriers. Some barriers are insurmountable. Not all hands are dealt the same. But the Government should provide assistance, not a permanent crutch. I worked my butt to get where I am. It is patently unfair for someone who decided to skip college and go party (a simple example but I hope you can grasp the underlying point) to be provided that which I worked for, subsidized by my work. We reach down to help those that need raising. But those than can raise themselves should (and must) do so. Like I said, it is about human dignity. ---
**Author:** ![freedumb2003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@freedumb2003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freedumb2003)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/79 "2009-08-28T22:01:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > :dubious: I am afraid I don’t do smileys icons (I despise them) – text smileys I understand. What does yours mean? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/80 "2009-08-28T22:04:12Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > Like I said, it is about human dignity. Preserving human dignity by removing the barrier of outrageous health costs to the less fortunate so they can maintain a reasonable level of health seems pretty worthwhile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=5)