# I am Pitting the stupid question: Do you want to cancel Medicare? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079 "2009-08-28T20:36:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/141 "2009-08-29T21:07:39Z")
If he’s a lefty playing at being a righty, Free Republic is WAY more fun. You can get people to agree with the most bizarre things there. Um. Not that I would know or anything. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/142 "2009-08-29T23:24:39Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This is exactly the kind of discussion that the question is trying to bring about. It gets people thinking beyond talking points and slogans and actually talking about the issues. If they’re going to defend one government healt insurance program then they can’t just go around saying things like “keep the government out of my health care!” They need to explain why one program is acceptable and another one isn’t. How dare you be that reasonable. Next you’ll be asking if the government can successfully run a massive military and with it’s own government run health care why do people insist the government can’t manage a public health care system? That’s just one of those "gotcha"reasonable questions that distorts honest discussion. You bastards. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/143 "2009-08-29T23:29:29Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > I am a proud Conservative and certainly am not trolling – it looks like there are more than a few of my fellow patriots here and a little e3xtra right lean won;t hurt you (but it is good to know I scare you). I agree that the SDMB could use more voices that lean right but please. You flatter yourself if you think you scare anybody. > [@](#): > > I have been 100% honest in my opinions – formulated over years and years of working and political analysis. If I am too right-wing for the board, the mods can toss me off and I will just chalk it up to an incorrect assumption that this is aplace where both sides can speak. No your assumption is correct and welcome. You’ll find some people here with just as many years of working and political analysis who strongly disagree. thats what keeps it interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/144 "2009-08-30T00:11:03Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > Why do you hate America? Shouldn’t you be spelling that Amerika? 😉 Okay, probably not him…but the class remains the same. You ask why he hates America. I ask why do you come to a message board just to troll around? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/145 "2009-08-30T00:16:03Z")
It’s cheaper than a movie and you get free coffee. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/146 "2009-08-30T00:20:17Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Shouldn’t you be spelling that Amerika? 😉 > > Okay, probably not him…but the class remains the same. You ask why he hates America. I ask why do you come to a message board just to troll around? There were rumors of free pie. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/147 "2009-08-30T00:22:06Z")
As well as hilarious penises ensuing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/148 "2009-08-30T00:52:53Z")
What free market are we talking about? Insurance companies have been merging and buying each other up for a long time. The reason is to eliminate competition. In Maine ,one company has 71 percent of the health care market. Does that sound like competition? Does it sound like a company that wants to give the best deal? No way. They control the market. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090823/ap\_on\_bi\_ge/us\_health\_care\_insurance\_competition](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090823/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_insurance_competition) Here’ a story about it. They own us, face it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/149 "2009-08-30T01:03:56Z")
You are just lucky that Finn can’t make his counting to 11 test stick, Gonz… -XT ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/150 "2009-08-30T01:36:26Z")
Sorry, I was on my way to work when I first read this thread, so I didn’t have time to bring this up earlier, but you don’t appear to be particularly reliable when it comes to mathematics. Consider the following: in [post #17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11496361&postcount=17), you make the claim > [@](#): > > A 1400 base invested with a 8% ROR and only $1000 a year for 45 years is over $500,000. When you were questioned on the validity of the 8% ROR assumption, you were magnanimous enough to recalculate with a lower rate of return in [post 32](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11496407&postcount=32), like so: > [@](#): > > I reran it at 5% and you still get 3/4 of a million. So, how does the math work that you can lower your ROR by 37.5% and still increase your yield by 50%? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/151 "2009-08-30T02:31:15Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > They don’t deserve health care because they decided to skip college and go party. It’s mighty unfair for those lazy poor people to be able to avoid suffering, like respectable hard working rich people do, eh? > > Remember, he has nothing against poor people at all. Just current administration and most democrats. So you think every single person in the US should go to college? Do you think everybody is capable? You are aware of high school dropouts, aren’t you? You do know there is some variance in IQs among our citizens, don’t you? Are you familiar with laborers, fast food workers, toolmakers, factory workers, mailmen, post office workers and so many others? That was one terrible argument. You show some bitterness against some people and appear to have extrapolated it into a much bigger argument than it is entitled. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/152 "2009-08-30T02:39:19Z")
**gonzomax** , you _do_ realize that the above is not really **begbert2** ’s position, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/153 "2009-08-30T02:58:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Sorry, I was on my way to work when I first read this thread, so I didn’t have time to bring this up earlier, but you don’t appear to be particularly reliable when it comes to mathematics. Consider the following: in [post #17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11496361&postcount=17), you make the claim When you were questioned on the validity of the 8% ROR assumption, you were magnanimous enough to recalculate with a lower rate of return in [post 32](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11496407&postcount=32), like so:So, how does the math work that you can lower your ROR by 37.5% and still increase your yield by 50%? Huh. I never bothered to check his figures, since I was fixated on how he was going to pay for healthcare today. Reviewing the thread, I think I might have missed his point to some extent, but whatever. (I also had never heard ROR before – I was familiar with ROI and IRR, but ROR was a new one to me.) Anyway, I brought up a handy [compound interest calculator](http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm) and gave myself $1,400 a year over 35 years, at 5% interest compounded monthly. I wound up with $133,096.38. If I bump that up to a brisk 8%, I get $269,403.75. Not bad, but a stint in the hospital, or maybe Alzheimer’s care, will whittle that down pretty quick. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/154 "2009-08-30T03:07:52Z")
If you had had the good sense to invest your money in a major investment house with a rock-solid reputation, you could qualify for the charity ward at Our Lady of Perpetual Responsibility Hospital. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/155 "2009-08-30T03:12:06Z")
Old people got no reason to live old people got no reason to live They got liverspotted hands and wrinkly old eyes they hobble around telling old people lies they got spotted noses and wear old people clothes on wrinkled old people legs of suphose ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/156 "2009-08-30T03:14:38Z")
Only one sure prevention. ---
**Author:** ![Robert\_Pickton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4bbf92/32.png) [@Robert\_Pickton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert_Pickton)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/157 "2009-08-30T07:29:13Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > I reran it at 5% and you still get 3/4 of a million. And long-term investments over 20 years have been doing in the 9% range. You have to ignore the blips like 9/11 and the obama drop – the trend of moderately aggressive investment does better than 8%. Cds iare not a valid comparison. Dear Mr. Madoff, Can you rerun the numbers with a 68% return every year and show me how much I’ll have to retire on in 2015? I really appreciate you taking good care of my money for me. I’m doing well. How are you and your family doing? Well, I know you’re busy. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Thanks, Robert ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/158 "2009-08-30T12:07:34Z")
> [@freedumb2003](#): > > Time and time again has show that the private sector can do almost everything (except for military and even the the government subcontracts parts of THAT to the private sector) better than government. > > That isn’t crazy – that is history. This is an assumption I won’t accept without considerable study. I support free enterprise as an ideal but we do not live in an ideal world. It is the same negative qualities within mankind in general that damage the ideal of free enterprise and the government of the people and for the people. Both require that we pay attention and get involved. Why is the military subcontracting more out to the private sector? Is that purely for efficiencies sake? Do you think that costs tax payers less or more? Look into that before you over generalize. IMO the goal is to find the balance between the governments role in protecting the welfare of it’s citizens and encouraging the free market. In this specific case the question is how much health care should be about profit? Where’s the proper balance between making a profit and actually providing care for individuals? ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/159 "2009-08-30T13:11:42Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Huh. I never bothered to check his figures, since I was fixated on how he was going to pay for healthcare today. Reviewing the thread, I think I might have missed his point to some extent, but whatever. (I also had never heard ROR before – I was familiar with ROI and IRR, but ROR was a new one to me.) > > Anyway, I brought up a handy [compound interest calculator](http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm) and gave myself $1,400 a year over 35 years, at 5% interest compounded monthly. I wound up with $133,096.38. > > If I bump that up to a brisk 8%, I get $269,403.75. > > Not bad, but a stint in the hospital, or maybe Alzheimer’s care, will whittle that down pretty quick. I think I’m gonna need a 24% return. I had a single baby that cost $740,000 eleven years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079/160 "2009-08-30T14:14:19Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I think I’m gonna need a 24% return. I had a single baby that cost $740,000 eleven years ago. No kidding? Do you mind my asking how the bill got so high? I’ve heard of complicated pregancies and deliveries before, but yikes! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-pitting-the-stupid-question-do-you-want-to-cancel-medicare/508079.md?page=9)