# I am political putty. Mould me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672 "2003-09-10T02:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/1 "2003-09-10T02:56:36Z")
I apologise if this type of thing has been done before or too often. Currently I believe I am a Liberal-thinking person, with some very basic and probably ignorant ideas about Liberalism and conservatism. Reading just a few posts of Scylla’s Conservatism thread it hits me just how little I know about politics and also how little I can say that defines me as a Liberal. Not managing to explain it very well, so let’s just say I’m political putty. So, I request that people with more experience and knowledge tell me why their political belief is the right one. Try to be specific, and also try to be civil. If it gets nasty I will e-mail a mod to have it closed If _I_ get nasty you have my persmission (as the OP) to request it to be closed. (none of those are likely to happen) To see which political ‘side’ I end up prefering. (two GD posts in one day! I am brave. This brings my yearly GD thread quota up to 2, I think) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/2 "2003-09-10T03:33:15Z")
Interesting enough topic. I’ve never been sure what a Liberal or a Conservative is because the definitions seem to change depending on what is discussed. I would classify myself as a fiscal conservative. I believe people should be responsible for themselves. In a free society you should be free to succeed. This means you are also free to fail. Only in the most extreme cases should society step in to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. To me, Gov’t should serve people in the most limited way. By that I mean National Defense, roads, infrastructure and schools. I’m not a fan of a pure Democracy but I would prefer more voter involvement in the decision process. If everybody would pull their own weight, the tax rate would fall drastically, giving a benefit to… everybody. I guess it has always irked me that it is ok to take my money by force (taxes) and give it to someone who is not compelled by force to do a damn thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/3 "2003-09-10T03:49:44Z")
To my ‘understanding’ of conservatism only that last sentence sounds like a conservative idea, but I agree with all of it (even the last possibly controversial one) I wouldn’t say it _irks_ me, but I do dislike the fact that what I pay in taxes ends up being given to lazy bums who are not forced to do anything in return. (or not _as_ forced) One point for the conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/4 "2003-09-10T03:52:24Z")
Mind you, I do sympathise with the bums (or lazy school leavers. I don’t mean actual bums. I sympathise with those more) I was one myself. (a lazy school leaver) I am now paying back to the govornment what they gave me while I was jobless. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/5 "2003-09-10T04:01:08Z")
Be fair and just with other people. Strive for the common good. Do your best to give everyone a reasonable chance to do well for themselves. Don’t lie to your fellow citizens as a pretext for starting a war. (You’d be surprised how often that last one comes into play.) ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/6 "2003-09-10T04:10:43Z")
I didn’t actually read much of that, since liberal and conscervative are american political terms which mean nothing whatsover to people outside of your insular brain-space, and all of the rest of the world considers you hopelessly and mindlessly miltaristic and fascist, but… oh, i forgot my point. disband your hopeless country. ---
**Author:** ![ooga\_booga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b77776/32.png) [@ooga\_booga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ooga_booga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/7 "2003-09-10T04:23:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Not In Anger \* > \*\*I didn’t actually read much of that, since liberal and conscervative are american political terms which mean nothing whatsover to people outside of your insular brain-space, and all of the rest of the world considers you hopelessly and mindlessly miltaristic and fascist, but… > > oh, i forgot my point. disband your hopeless country. \*\* Thus spoketh the Canadian (with a suitably ironic username) to the British OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/8 "2003-09-10T04:24:04Z")
Just a Note: I already have a well established moral code, I probably can’t be completely altered politically. The point of the thread is to state the merits of one or the other system. Then I hold those merits up next to my moral code and see if they are compatible. Some of my moral code (or opinions) might be compatible with conservative ideas/merits. others compatible with Liberal. I just want to see if I really am the Liberal I think I am, or if I am in fact conservative. I don’t want to _become_ one or the other. I don’t want to _change_ my moral code. This is not a telling off. I just detected a little bit of misunderstanding of my OP so I am attempting to make it a bit clearer. Thanks for the replies so far BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/9 "2003-09-10T04:33:20Z")
oh fuck. Canadians have noting to do with British OP’s. We threw off their chains many moons ago, since they never had any conceivable reason to be associated with Canadians. We fought Hitler. But we respected him. Long before you did. What do you think we feel about Bush? Hitler at least knew what he was doing. We knew it was evil, you discovered later. Americans know absolutely nothing about the rest of the world, that’s why everyone else hates you, that’s why all off of your adventures are so useless. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/10 "2003-09-10T04:35:46Z")
**In Anger** , go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![ooga\_booga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b77776/32.png) [@ooga\_booga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ooga_booga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/11 "2003-09-10T04:39:37Z")
I was merely pointing out the irony of viciously chastising a poster for being an “insular…hopelessly and mindlessly militaristic and fascist” American when said poster is, in fact, from the UK. The rest of your incomprehensible rantings appear to be either a furious and spurious attempt to derail an otherwise civil discussion, and I won’t waste my time replying to them. I do salute you in taking a scant two posts to invoke Godwin, however. Good show. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/12 "2003-09-10T04:40:09Z")
Not likely. Your pathetic country is also implicated. ---
**Author:** ![ooga\_booga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b77776/32.png) [@ooga\_booga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ooga_booga)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/13 "2003-09-10T04:42:05Z")
As for **Lobsang** : you may find [this site](http://www.politicalcompass.org) interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/14 "2003-09-10T04:52:06Z")
I’ve already been there (in the past, not recently). If I remember rightly it put me close to Charles Kennedy. I can’t remember what my score was so I’ll do it again and post it here. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/15 "2003-09-10T04:56:23Z")
For fuck sake, read Noam Chomskey. The truth isn’t exactly a secret. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/16 "2003-09-10T05:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **Lobsang** : I wouldn’t say it irks me, but I do dislike the fact that what I pay in taxes ends up being given to lazy bums who are not forced to do anything in return. (or not as forced) I hate corporate welfare too. I am a Liberal. I believe that if we continue to deny civil rights to a segment of the population in order to make the rest of the population possibly more secure, we are lost. I believe that we should be more welcoming of immigrants – especially the poor and those seeking asylum. Either that, or take down the words that are on the Statue of Liberty. I believe that honest discourse makes our country strong. No one should have to refrain from criticism of the government or any elected official. I believe that Medicare should pay for perscriptions. I believe that affordable health care should be available to all. I believe in the legalization of marijuana. Although I am anti-abortion, I believe in every woman’s right to choose during the first trimester. I believe in a firm and resolute separation of church and state. I believe there should be an ammendment to the Constitution guaranteeing equal rights for women. I believe that firearms should be limited to muskets – registered and licensed muskets. I believe in abolishing the death penalty. I am pro-United Nations. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/17 "2003-09-10T05:10:05Z")
Economic Left/Right: -4.75 Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72 Near the Dalai Lama :eek: And opposite to George Bush 🙂 Charles Kennedy doesn’t seem to be on the chart anymore (He is the leader of the Liberal Democrats in the UK) ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/18 "2003-09-10T05:28:53Z")
what the hell does it matter what you believe, since your elections are rigged? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/19 "2003-09-10T05:32:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Not In Anger \* > \*\*I didn’t actually read much of that, since liberal and conscervative are american political terms which mean nothing whatsover to people outside of your insular brain-space, and all of the rest of the world considers you hopelessly and mindlessly miltaristic and fascist, but… > > oh, i forgot my point. disband your hopeless country. \*\* You’re supposed to take your ski’s off BEFORE you sit down. That way you don’t have to walk around all day with that big stick up your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_In\_Anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@Not\_In\_Anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_In_Anger)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672/20 "2003-09-10T05:44:40Z")
I’m not going to read much of this. Your country went to with another country (germany) commercially while canadians died, as always, bravely on the field of battle. ha ha. then you came and bartered eggs or something (who knows what your so-called army was doing since they got nowhere near the actual front), then you came in and convened a war crimes court, which decided that it was a hangable offense to pre-emptively invade another country. ha ha. You people are now, officially completely insane. This was YOUR PRINCIPLE (even though you had no actual part in the actual fighting.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-political-putty-mould-me/200672.md?page=2)