# I am proud to be white. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2000, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106 "2000-11-21T09:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2000, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/81 "2000-11-22T20:58:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > **I know, I know…please excuse me for the foam…Let me address this in a less inflamatory manner.** I’d be glad to do the same. > [@](#): > > **Fear…I cannot be positive that this is the prime motivation…Maybe greed is the prime motivator. It simply does not make sense to me that there is still a huge segment of “whites” in this society who refuse to see that they have enjoyed 200 some odd years of priviledge in this country.** BINGO! Greed is the magic word, boys and girls. Who benefits from racism? Not I, not you, not anybody. What it’s all about is money and power. As long as the peasants/proles/serfs [choose your own term] are fighting amongst themselves, the lords aren’t in any danger of losing their precarious positions of privilege. Incidentally, I’m only 30 years old. I haven’t enjoyed 200 years of anything. Neither have my parents, nor my grandparents. The point I’m trying to make that everybody refuses to catch is that you’re not affected in any way by what happened 150 years before you were born. > [@](#): > > **Affirmative Action…I did not coin the phrase “reverse discrimination”. I’m not sure who did but I’d be willing to bet they weren’t black. Personal anecdotal experiences while often used to demonstrate a point do not usually reflect the entire picture. In your case… just because some manager in a restaurant you’ve worked for doesn’t have the slightest idea how to apply AA iniciatives correctly does not make ALL these iniciatives wrong. It is a sad fact that many social programs designed to help those in need are often misinterpreted, misapplied, and mismanaged. I’ve seen AA work and I’ve seen it misapplied myself. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Instead let’s rework and rethink our application of the iniciatives.** I think Afirmative Action was begun with all good intentions, but the lesson is that you cannot legislate morality. It doesn’t work. When you’re forced to do something, even the right thing, you are resentful of the forcing. Which fosters the abuse that Tomndebb and Biggirl described. I think it was a good thing at its inception, but I firmly believe that it has overstayed its welcome. AA has accomplished all it can, because it is being widely misinterpreted, misapplied and abused. It’s time to let the changes that are already in the works continue. > [@](#): > > **As for the Riots…they had nothing to do with the problems you have mentioned poverty, education, etc. they have everything to do with being black. I did not sanction them. I find them to be terribly non-productive, actually silly. But the L.A. riots you’ve mentioned several times were brought about by the fear and anger of police brutality. Which we all know now was a real situation and not just some percieved injustice by a group of people looking for a handout, or special treatment.** Wrong. They were not brought about by anything so rational. Fear of police brutality is not relieved by smashing your neighbor’s shop window and stealing a tv or vcr or whatever you’re able to carry. There’s even a song about it by Sublime. excerpt: “But when you look at the streets it wa’n’t about Rodney King And this fucked up situation and these fucked up police It was about comin’ up and stayin’ on top and screamin’ 1-8-7 on a motherfuckin’ cop” Yeah, it’s only a song, but that’s exactly the attitude I saw on TV. By the way, riots of that magnitude don’t just “break out”. I believe that was organized and premeditated. Is there racism? Yes. Are some police guilty of racist behavior and attitudes? Yes. Did that justify a huge citywide riot? Hell No. > [@](#): > > \*\*About the WB…that is what you mentioned right? The black sitcoms on the WB. What is it about them that bothers you so much? Just don’t watch the WB. You do realize that whites criticized Jews and still do for some of the very same things you find offensive about blacks. Their success in business. Their patronization of their own businesses. They too have been accused of trying to monopolize the banking industry, the entertainment industry and the medical professions. You can see the correlation here can’t you?..Black people didn’t invent violence, but they’ve lived with it an awful long time just as whites. > > Comedians…I can’t address this view of yours it is so predjudicial and biased that I have no answer for it. You can give no real example of ANY black comedian or otherwise who have built their entire career on nothing more than making fun of whites.\*\* You are so far off my point that I don’t even know if you were reading the same post I wrote. I don’t find anything offensive about blacks or jews or anybody. I find stupidity and racism offensive in all people, regardless of color. What I find bothersome, not even offensive, about the things mentioned is that they revolve around “BLACKNESS”, not life situations. You don’t have to pander to one group of people and exclude another in order not to discriminate against the first. Besides, I’ve never accused Hollywood of being a paragon of virtue or an institution to be emulated. And as I said above, but you seem to have failed to read, there IS no comedian who has made an entire career of “white jokes” (…although there is Martin Lawrence…), but it is the staple topic of the majority of black comedy that I’ve been exposed to. That’s like saying “show me a comedian who makes an entire career of dick jokes” in response to an allegation that there are too many dick jokes in comedy. That’s a stupid response (not necessarily a stupid responder) because obviously nobody can make a whole career out of dick jokes. Except maybe Eddie Murphy. But, I’ll go ahead and admit that maybe entertainment was a poor example. It was only an illustration of the way black children and teenagers are indoctrinated by black culture to be distrustful and suspicious of white people (this was confirmed first-hand by my roommate and sort of by biggirl). > [@](#): > > **Why would you turn down a scholarship, on what principle? There are plenty of grants and scholarships available for everyone.** I thought I had been clear before. I turned it down because I don’t want to acknowledge the implication that because my last name is Spanish that I can’t get to college on my own merit. > [@](#): > > **You can see the correlation here can’t you? You spout off about rappers and their violent, militant lyrics, many of them come from violent backgrounds, what else would they right about, butterflies and fields of dazies? Besides you must be forgetting about Marilyn Manson, Ozzie Osbourne and a few other heavy metalists that glorified some of the same things.** I did no such thing. you insist on missing my point! I said that rappers with violent music use the excuse that “It mirrors society, we are the reporters of the black community” when it is simply not true. It’s about greed again, not societal change. They glorify violence because it sells records, not because that’s what it’s like in the 'hood. Dr. Dre lived in a nice area, for crying out loud! He lived a comfortable lifestyle, as did the rest of N.W.A., until they became rappers and decided it was time to have “street credibility” and become hard. (the only exception was Eazy-E who was the neighborhood drug dealer. they included him because he had the money to finance the venture). Reporters of the street indeed. In case I’m not clear enough: I know that a lot of white musicians have violent music. I wasn’t attacking rap because it’s violent or claiming it’s any less violent than metal (give punk-rock a listen sometime. metal and rap are nothing). I was attacking the lie that they were reflecting existing attitudes and behavior, not influencing it. > [@](#): > > **…The parents of young black Americans have not forgotten. And they have not allowed their children to forget.** At last. the root of the problem. Parents passing their prejudices on to their children. The very same thing that white racists do. But with white people it makes them trailer park trash, rednecks, etc. When black people do it, they’re simply responding to what the white man did to them. Paint it all with the same brush. One is no different from the other. > [@](#): > > **I also have to clarify something. I have no guilt complex what-so-ever. As a matter of fact there is something that I am rather proud to share. Sometime around the tender age of 9 I realized that blacks were human. Certainly this was completely against everything I had been raised to believe. What I was thinking at the time went against all the subtle and not so subtle indications I had recieved up until then, that blacks were inferior. Over the years this notion grew. I also became observant. I watched whites and blacks. I noticed things. I noticed that blacks didn’t seem to fit in with much of the “evils” attributed to them. I made this discovery completely on my own. It amazes me even now…So much of your rethoric sounds exactly the same as theirs.** Again, you seem to have me confused with somebody else. God bless you for coming to your senses and not actively proliferating the prejudices that were taught to you. I was fortunate enough never to have been taught the idea that blacks/jews/orientals/what have you were anything _BUT_ people. I’ve always viewed skin color as not significantly different from eye or hair color. We don’t have all the blue-eyed people gather in a corner whispering about browns and greens, do we? Of course not. This is the same thing. > [@](#): > > \*\*I have no desire to be your thought monitor. This is your life. But I’m wondering why you can’t feel how your attitude is very much like anger and resentment. Does that feel good to you? > > Needs2know > \*\* Yes, my attitude drips anger and resentment. but not towards black people. It’s directed towards people who perpetuate the idea that white people are bad because of the evils their ancestors did. Once again, I enslaved nobody. I segregated nobody. The majority of segregation that occurs now is done BY the minorities, not TO them. I am angry and resentful when I’m told that I have some burden of guilt to bear for wrongs committed centuries before I was born. I’m angry and resentful when those same evils and wrongs are committed by the very people who complain that it was done to them. And I’m especially angry and resentful when it is excused from an ethnic minority because “they have a reason to be angry”, since “WE” were bad first. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stuffinb \* > **Like N2K mentioned, the riots in LA were a result of the unfairness blacks saw at the courts and society for what they saw as a brutal act condoned by a jury. I thought it was stupid too, but I also see another issue. I notice you didn’t critizise the WTO and WB riots of whom most of the participants were white. I’m not saying you condoned the action, but blacks are entitled to express their anger too, correct? You don’t think a lot of black men saw that tape, and realized that it could have easily been them.** A riot is a riot is a riot. Everybody has the right to express anger. Nobody has a right to run around and smash things and steal from people. As far as I am aware, The WTO “riot” was a completely different animal. The so-called “rioters” were peaceful demonstrators who were fired upon by the police. The actual problems were caused by people looking for attention and who, in my opinion, were planted in the crowds as an excuse for a large forceful police presence. If I’m wrong, then it was just as wrong as any other. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/82 "2000-11-22T21:56:54Z")
Hey **Needs** Im not sure what we aere arguing about either, but it must have been in GD, as it’s where I spend most of my time. Hey I was just thinking after Turkey day of starting a "Ask the Black Guy thread ala Espirix, whatya think. **Joe Cool** I take it you missed the first riot up in Seattle, it caused a lot of damage to the downtown area. Which is why the police overreacted in later protest. You’re probably right about inciters, but hey that’s the case with all riots. You have the well intentioned and you have those that are just in it for the mischief. Incidentally I was working in the financial district in SF, during the RK Riots, you should have seen the way the police here over reacted. I was on my home heading for BART when a van full of them jumped out and started clearing the streets. Anybody not moving fast enugh was pepper sprayed and thrown in the back of police vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/83 "2000-11-22T22:16:38Z")
I just cannot learn how to nestle quotes, so bear with me. Joe I think you are having trouble seeing how your whiteness is an asset and how someone else’s blackness can be a liability. There is no difference between black people and white people, you seem to be saying, except for the color of thier skin-- so why the preferential treatment? Joe says:\*\* I haven’t enjoyed 200 years of anything. Neither have my parents, nor my grandparents. The point I’m trying to make that everybody refuses to catch is that you’re not affected in any way by what happened 150 years before you were born.\*\* I tell black folk something like this almost every day. Except when I say it, it goes something like this: Yeup, it’s been 150 years and “the man” still hasn’t conceded that we are their equal. Get over it! Stop hankering for acceptance. Stop waiting for “the white media” to cease portraying you in the most negative light. If you don’t want to look like savages, don’t tear up your own neighborhoods in fits of impotent rage. Acknowledge that we _do_ have a problem with crime and do something about it instead of being apologists for the criminals. It is so true that black men fry in the electric chair in disproportionate numbers. Don’t do anything that’ll get you sent to the chair! We have no control over what white people do only over what we do. Joe says: **I think Afirmative Action was begun with all good intentions, but the lesson is that you cannot legislate morality. It doesn’t work.** I wrestle with affirmative action. I believe everyone should be treated the same. I don’t like the draft, but I think if you draft men, then you have to draft women. The first step in being treated as an equal is to, well, be treated equally. But then I think about how the vast majority of jobs handed out are handed out by white people. Now, I know this next part will be hard for you to accept, but: white people feel more comfortable with other white people. As a matter of fact, white people feel _uncomfortable_ around black people. They are suspicious of us. And in many, many cases (more cases than you seem willing to admit) they downright don’t like us-- just because we are black. As a colorless human whose only interest is equality, I’m with you all the way on AA. As a black woman, I can only hope it will remain. Joe says: **What I find bothersome, not even offensive, about the things mentioned is that they revolve around “BLACKNESS”, not life situations.** You don’t see Friends as “WHITENESS”? What is it about Moisha that is blackness and not a life situation? If you actually watched these shows, you would see that there is a difference between a black existence and a white one. Joe says: **Parents passing their prejudices on to their children. The very same thing that white racists do.** I am in total and complete agreement with you here. This has got to stop on both sides. Joe says: **Yes, my attitude drips anger and resentment. but not towards black people. It’s directed towards people who perpetuate the idea that white people are bad because of the evils their ancestors did.** Here is where you are wrong. It is not the wrongs done 150 years ago. It is the legacy of the wrong done 150 years ago. We are still living with it. One day, hopefull soon, everyone will think that racism is a thing of the past and be right. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/84 "2000-11-24T14:33:50Z")
Hi Biggirl…Joe…others… I’m sorry Joe but I have to disagree once again…what you fail to recognize is that white people do enjoy privledges that are actually older than the history of this country. Western civilization has dominated the world for quite ahile now. Biggirl is right…your attitude about seeing “blackness” portrayed on televisions speaks loudly to the fact that you have no idea how many subtle privledges your white skin does afford you. Here a just a few things to think about from an essay by Peggy McIntosh. She is Associate Director of Wellesley College Center for Research on Women. 1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time. 2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live. 3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me. 4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed. 5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented. 6. When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization”, I am shown that people of my color made it what it is. 7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race. 8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege. 9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can deal with my hair. 10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability. 11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them. 12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race. 13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial. 14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race. 15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. 16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds’ majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion. 17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider. 18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge” I will be facing a person of my race. 19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race. 20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazines featuring people of my race. 21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place,outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared. 22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race. 23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen. 24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me. 25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones. 26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color that more or less matches my skin. This list is not complete but it’s food for thought. You can go into any search engine and key in “white privledge”. There you will find articles by this woman and others who might be able to give some ideas just how “special” it is to be white in this country. It angers me to hear white people say they are not racist yet they prescribe to the idea that things are somehow “equal” or even close to being equal. They are simply not facing reality. Perhaps because they unconsciencely know that in order to achieve true equality they will have to be aware of the subtle privledges their race affords them. There are even a few “militant” whites that feel we should actively reject these privledges, that is the only road to true equality. Truth is I at least enjoy the honesty of some white supremisists. At least they have the guts to say they are white, looking out for being white, and have no intention of giving up their privledges of being white. In many ways, agree with them or not, they are often a lot more honest than the rest of us. I cannot say that I honestly want to lose the comfort I feel out there in the world everyday that my race affords me. I certainly know that I do not want to feel the discomfort of never knowing for certain how I will be recieved each and everyday in society. We are still slaves all of us. Slaves to societal constricts we have placed upon each other. And hey boys and girls…we won’t even get into “white MALE privledge”. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/85 "2000-11-24T15:30:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > There is not a black person alive today who was a slave. Except for those who’ve been enslaved, illegally, in Sudan. > [@](#): > > There is not an indian\* alive who had his land stolen from him by the white man or was forced to live on a reservation. Except for those who were born on the Reservations and, because of numerous historic and economic facts, haven’t moved. > [@](#): > > \*I despise the word “native american” because it’s discriminatory. My brother is a native american because he was born a citizen on American soil. I’m not because although I was born a citizen, I was born on a US army base in Germany. But neither of us is Indian. Why is a Navajo or an Apache any more “Native” than the rest of my family? Answer: They ain’t. Both you and your brother are native American citizens; your brother just happened to have been born on American soil while you were born to US citizens who were able, per the laws relating to US citizenship, to pass their citizenship to you by the event of your birth abroad. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2000, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/86 "2000-11-25T00:31:28Z")
“It angers me to hear white people say they are not racist yet they prescribe to the idea that things are somehow “equal” or even close to being equal. They are simply not facing reality. Perhaps because they unconsciencely know that in order to achieve true equality they will have to be aware of the subtle privledges their race affords them” All of those “subtle privledges” are wrong. Though I like the one about Affirmative action. Not a single one of those privledges have to do anything with being white vs black. They have everything to do with being a minority inside a larger majority. You could be subjected to any of those things Needs2know you simply have a smaller chance of that happening in the USA. Or are you one of those people who thinks that the USA is the center of the world and there exists no populations where blacks outnumber whites? Most of them are simply cultural perceptions that only exist because people keep on dragging them back out. Who do you think causes them to exist? The person who doesen’t discriminate on race(not realising how good the whites have it) or the person who does? Needs2know, you do realise that your the one whose the racist here? Your judging people by the color of their skin therefore you are racist. Just because you want to do something “good” doesen’t make what your doing any less wrong or racist. You cannot blame yourself for other peoples actions and be right. You can atone for your own racism but not someone elses. You also seem to believe your better off than black people. I wont go into how that parallels supremisists. I agree with affirmative action. It imposes quotas on companys who basically refuse to hire blacks or hire in only low positions. Thats trying to correct racist stances legally. That being said I judge people based on their race, but I go to great pains to not let it reflect my actions in the slightest way. Want to know why I do this? Because my school had an election for minority leaders. Before I went into high school I had never had a racist thought in my life. Then suddenly im told to be racist. All I origionally was going to reply with “Im proud to be humble” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2000, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/87 "2000-11-27T16:28:37Z")
Asmodean either does not remember history or is wearing an extremely thick pair of blinders. Majority? Were white people the majority in India, Africa or Austrailia? Where in the world, except maybe China or Japan does it NOT benefit someone greatly to be white? Certainly not anywhere on this continent. What about Europe or Eurasia? Africa is a “black” continent, but then you’ve never heard of apartied then have you? What of British colonialism in Africa? Austrailia, they have their own black/white problems don’t they? Throw off the blinders! I’m not proud to be white I’m LUCKY!!! It affords me so many unearned privledges no matter where I go.But now if I’d really been very lucky I would have been born white and male. Oh and no I do not take responsiblity for the atrosities that “whites” have visited on the brown, red, yellow and black skinned peoples of this world, but I have benefited from it and still do. Especially in THIS country. Wake up! Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2000, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/88 "2000-11-27T20:58:00Z")
Needs2Know’s litany of unearned privileges is spot on. White Americans sail through life never having to be burdened by the legacy of prejudice. Asmodean is being disingenuous when he says that it has nothing to do with race. White people are not stopped for driving a nice car in a rich neighborhood; white men are never called “boy”; nobody assumes that all white people are stupid, or evil, or prone to theft. White people are never “last hired, first fired.” Now, Asmodean does have a point when he points out that prejudice is not unique to white folks or Americans. Consider the Eta of Japan. Eta, or “burukamin,” are the descendants of a worker caste that performed unsanitary work such as corpse-handling and tanning. Racially, they are identical to other Japanese, yet they are discriminated against as a permanent underclass. The same goes for the ethnic Koreans who were born in Japan and live there, but are not allowed to become citizens. In India, the Dalit, formerly known as Untouchables, who are not properly part of the caste system, face horrible discrimination daily despite having job quotas and reserved governemnt posts. White folks are not the only practitioners of racism. We just happen to be the privileged majority in the USA, but racism and ethnic hatred are universal. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2000, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/89 "2000-11-27T22:05:26Z")
Taking the OP with a large dose of hoping for the best for his intent, I do agree very strongly with his statement, or rather the inverse of it. I hate ‘pride’ groups. As the posters was saying that if you claim you are in a ‘white pride’ group then most people will think you are a racist. In my experience they are racist assholes for the most part. But so are most of the Black pride, and Latino pride and whatever. There are millions of people who go through life everyday living with whatever the circumstances of their life happens to be. But ‘pride’ seems to be pathetic euphamism for thinking your group is better, and everybody else is bad. Even more than that, identifying with a group at all seems to breed rasist tendancies. The main reason I hate New York, and why I would never live there is the defined group predudices. As soon as you get a large group of people who have identified themselves as Black, or Jewish, Or Italian, or Irish, it creates a strong ‘us’ for ’ them’ to be fighting. Where I grew up out here in the great plains there was no established group for anybody to belong to. About 1/3 were mostly white, 1/3 were mostly latino, and 1/3 were black, Indian, Asian, or whatever. And beyond that, most people came from such a huge mix of various countries, that trying to establish exactly who was different from you wouldn’t have been possible. I have no pride in what I am racially(not to mention the fact that I have little knowledge of what my ancestors were, they were most likely a bunch of poor ass people who dug holes and shoveled shit in many countries around the world.) I do have pride in what I am culturally, American, and the good things _I_ am trying to do. Most of my good friends, who are from various races and socio-economies feel the same way, they don’t waste time being proud of something that has nothing to do with them as a person. One other thing, I hate affirmitive action. The reason I hate it is because it made me a rasist. I signed up for a class in college. The professor, a black man, was a worthless idiot who liked to mentally abuse his students. Me and several other students complained to the department chair about him, as had many other students throughout the years. After enough persistence(meaning daily bitching) the guy told us that he had been hired because they had been pressured to hire a black into the position, and there was no way they were going to risk firing him. So now, no matter how hard I try to supress it, whenever I see a minority in a position of authority there is a momemt where I wonder if he is good at his job, or if he’s a token. I think I do a damn good job of not letting it make me judge people unfairly, but I’m not naive enough to pretend that it doesn’t matter, because I will always wonder if I am not being fair. P.S. For matter of argument, I have gotten the shit beat out of me for ‘walkin my white ass down the wrong street in Detroit’ ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/90 "2000-11-28T14:32:55Z")
The only thing I have to say to your little story is “so what?”. So the big bad black professor got his job through affirmative action. So he’s an asshole. Think he’s the only asshole professor working? Think he’s the only black asshole working as a professor? He isn’t qualified for the job, is that what you think? Well then think of it this way…How many hundreds of thousands of unqualified white guys have been running just about every institution in this country simply because they are white? If Affirmative Action continued on for a hundred years the unqualified blacks might finally catch up with the unqualified asshole whites. Problem is it’s easier for us to forgive fellow whites when they aren’t worth a shit, or is it? Since we can never seem to separate fact from bullshit personal experiences whenever we debate this subject then I’ll relate mine… For every half assed black I have known in my working enviornment, I have known at least 3 half assed whites. Problem is the whites never have the burden of representing their ENTIRE race. Nor do they ever have the burden of having to prove that they didn’t get their job through AA. No because they are white they are ENTITLED to be as half assed as they please without ever having anyone question why. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/91 "2000-11-28T20:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\* > Unclebeer, > > Fighting ignorance includes being aware of what’s going on around you. It’s important to know what bad stuff is going on to be able to fight it. > > On the other hand, RDawg raises a very good point. Why is racism (or “cultural pride”) excused when it comes from a “recognized minority” but not from a white person? > > I’ve honestly never heard a Black person say “I’m proud to be black, but I recognize and empower the rich cultural heritage that white people have as well, even though I prefer mine.” They are much more likely to say something along the lines of “damn I’m glad I’m not white because then I couldn’t sing, dance, or play sports, and I’d have a small dick.” > > If somebody posted a “black pride” or “chicano power” thread with links to the NAACP or LULAC, would Lynn be so quick to jump on the poster and edit out the racist links? I really doubt it. > > But we have come to the point that the public at large thinks racism by minorities is ok, because it takes “more than a few generations to recover from the damage done by hundreds of years of slavery/war/persecution/whatever.” > > I say bullshit to that. I am neither affected by, nor recovering from, anything that was done to my ancestors. I react to what happens to ME. There is not a black person alive today who was a slave. There is not an indian\* alive who had his land stolen from him by the white man or was forced to live on a reservation. So nobody is “suffering” or “recovering” from those things–it’s all a heap of garbage fostered by our “Victim” society to allow the “victims” to avoid taking responsibility for their situations. If you don’t want to live in poverty, GET A JOB. I got a pretty good one without a college degree and with a Spanish last name, so there’s no reason why anybody else can’t. > > I detest racism in all its forms, but White-To-Somebody-Else racism is not any worse than Black-To-White or Latino-To-Chinese racism. They’re all equally bad. > > So why do we excuse it? > > \*[sub]I despise the word “native american” because it’s discriminatory. My brother is a native american because he was born a citizen on American soil. I’m not because although I was born a citizen, I was born on a US army base in Germany. But neither of us is Indian. Why is a Navajo or an Apache any more “Native” than the rest of my family? Answer: They ain’t.[/sub] \*\* The reason that it is racist because it implies that you are entitled to the privileges of being White in this society. Yes, there are still vestiges of that today, including the legitimate votes that were never counted from predominately Black districts in Florida. There are many in power who still thinks that this is OK. The diffrence between White-on-Black racism, etc. and vice versa is that White-on-Black racism becomes law and policy, bad law and policy that affect Black people even down to this day, bad law and policy that Black people and others have to struggle just to strike down. Native Americans are people whose ancestors were here in America before the settlers from Europe came over. The Native americans are starkly affected by the land stolen from them. They don’t reap the profits and the interest from the profits from the oil and uranium that du Pont, Getty and their ancestors received. They got not one single cent from the gold stripped from the mines of the land they were driven off of or killed for. Many today are still living in reservations where a tiny portion of the land is arable, and hunting grounds are non-existent because the buffalo and bison became almost extinct. They now have to make a living off the vices of the more afflent, with cigaretts and casinos. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/92 "2000-11-28T21:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > It angers me to hear white people say they are not racist yet they prescribe to the idea that things are somehow “equal” or even close to being equal. They are simply not facing reality. they are facing a kind of reality. the reality is that things are as equal as they’re going to get. government will never be able to regulate prejudice and will never effectively regulate discrimination. the trick is to find a way to live within this reality with as little dependence on others, especially government, as possible. this goes for all people - white, black, brown, green. there are many ways to be in the minority in this society. the more obvious your minority, the harder you have to work to be accepted, and the more likely you are to feel frustrated. it’s not something to be angry about, because there’s nothing to be done about it unless you want to constantly run to the government for help. if you choose that path, you’ll just be angry and frustrated for the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/93 "2000-11-28T21:45:48Z")
Give me a break! The election is over and Harry Browne didn’t even get enough votes to offer up one percent! Stump the “hands off government” rethoric in one of the political threads. What you are saying is…yeah you’re a “minority” (which means nothing because black folks weren’t a minority in South Africa yet they were dominated for generations by whites) so live with it and do your best. You’re on your own buddy! Isn’t my problem if I belong to the dominate race in this country. Go back to stepping and fetching. I’m not going to do a thing to see to it that my fellow whites don’t even try to treat with equality and respect. Oh yeah, and missed a spot over there Leroy! Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/94 "2000-11-28T22:21:24Z")
> [@](#): > > What you are saying is…yeah you’re a “minority” (which means nothing because black folks weren’t a minority in South Africa yet they were dominated for generations by whites) so live with it and do your best. You’re on your own buddy! that’s exactly what i’m saying. you can’t depend on anyone but yourself and maybe your family if you have that kind of family. the effect that being a minority has on your life cannot and will not be regulated away by government. and i’m not an anti-government, right-wing conservative. there’s things government can do and things it can’t do. regulating human thought is one of the things it can’t do and that’s where prejudice lives. ---
**Author:** ![Needs2know](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Needs2know](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Needs2know)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/95 "2000-11-30T14:59:46Z")
You are so full of shit…government or at least the legal system CAN ensure that people are guaranteed their rights. Most individuals don’t really care what someone THINKS about them but they do take issue with being trapped in low paying jobs, being denied housing, and being harrassed because they are different. That is when government MUST intervene. That is when society has a duty to behave civilized. This does not have to be a “dog eat dog” world anymore. We are better than that, or at least some of us are. Needs2know ---
**Author:** ![Biffer\_Spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@Biffer\_Spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffer_Spice)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/96 "2000-11-30T15:37:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > \*\*The only thing I have to say to your little story is “so what?”. So the big bad black professor got his job through affirmative action. So he’s an asshole. Think he’s the only asshole professor working? Think he’s the only black asshole working as a professor? He isn’t qualified for the job, is that what you think? Well then think of it this way…How many hundreds of thousands of unqualified white guys have been running just about every institution in this country simply because they are white? If Affirmative Action continued on for a hundred years the unqualified blacks might finally catch up with the unqualified asshole whites. \*\* So what you’re saying is that blacks have been persecuted a lot. Rather than stop persecution as a whole, let’s persecute the whites just as much? Two wrongs make a right? “unqualified blacks” and “unqualified asshole whites”? It’s often hard to think something through logically when it really riles you. I think you need to take a step back here. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/97 "2000-11-30T15:39:59Z")
> [@](#): > > This does not have to be a “dog eat dog” world anymore. We are better than that how old are you, needs2know? i’m asking because this comment smacks of an optimism i have long since abandoned, and i’m not that old. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/98 "2000-11-30T15:55:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Needs2know \* > Most individuals don’t really care what someone THINKS about them but they do take issue with being trapped in low paying jobs, being denied housing, and being harrassed because they are different._\* But it’s what people think of others that lead to these things occurring. Legislate all you like, but education would be a more effective solution. ---
**Author:** ![Smithwow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Smithwow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smithwow)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/99 "2000-11-30T17:37:08Z")
Reply “I think Chinese food is the best food!” I agree with this one, it is the best food. As to the being proud because I am white. Well, I like my skin color but I did not make it that way so it was not really up to me, so there is not reason to be proud of it. Have to be carefull with sun-exposure time though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106/100 "2000-11-30T17:56:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by zwaldd \* > they are facing a kind of reality. the reality is that things are as equal as they’re going to get._\* You have _got_ to be kidding! This is it? Take what you got and shut up already? Fuck that! I’m going to bitch and moan and lobby against a: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > government will never be able to regulate prejudice and will never effectively regulate discrimination. \*\* as to this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > the trick is to find a way to live within this reality with as little dependence on others, especially government, as possible. \*\* I’m not looking to depend on anyone, I’m looking for parity. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zwaldd \* > and this goes for all people - white, black, brown, green. there are many ways to be in the minority in this society. the more obvious your minority, the harder you have to work to be accepted, and the more likely you are to feel frustrated. it’s not something to be angry about, because there’s nothing to be done about it unless you want to constantly run to the government for help. \*\* Damn right I’m fucking fustrated! And why the hell shouldn’t I be angry if I have to work harder than you for the same amount of “acceptance”? You would have me bend over while getting fucked in the ass **and learn to love it!** Guess what zwaldd, that ain’t gonna happen. I’ll bend over alright. Far enough for you to kiss my big, beautiful, black ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-proud-to-be-white/42106.md?page=6)