Jeddah is better than Riyadh . . .but that ain’t saying much. The traffic is horrible, the humidity is worse, and it floods every time it rains. If you want a real treat, wait for pilgrimage time, 24 X 7 gridlock. S Add all that to the locals wishing you were dead and it gets annoying.
The only good things about Jeddah are the highway median art and the seafood.
Regards.
Testy.
Rampisad, perhaps the confusion is thatone interpretation of your phrasing is that you maybe are attributing the philosophy described by istara to istara herself, when that is not necessarily the case.
i.e. She doesn’t necessarily make that conflation you described. So she, personally, is not saying anything in a roundabout way, really, as she never made that connection in the first place.
If what you meant to get across is something like…
…so what this mindset you are describing is saying in a roundabout way is my enemy’s friend is my enemy…
…which I can also get from your turn of phrase, it might have just got lost in a semantic misunderstanding.
Just a guess, anyway :).
Ramp - I think I get what you mean.
You mean that you are saying that Arabs perceive the US as an enemy because it is the friend of their enemy Israel?
Totally correct if that is what you mean.
I got confused because I thought you were talking about my personal enemies/friends or something.
Hah!
Validation :D.
Thanks Tamerlane - simulpost!
I need more sleep. I am confused by about a gazillion threads today.
Probably a waste of time. The attitude is too common to make a difference and the Saudis are trying their best to stay away from the US anyway. Evidently they get an exhaustive interview upon arrival that (rumor has it) can take anything up to six hours to complete. They seem outraged that anyone would connect them in any way, shape, or form with terrorism and hate being singled out (as they see it) for this treatment. I can’t figure out why they’re kicking about an interview. Hell, they gave me a prostate exam before granting a visa.
The bulk of the 9/11 hijackers were from here, they teach hatred of everything American in the schools and mosques, and can’t figure out why the US is just a bit leery of them.
Regards
Testy
I think you are overusing the ‘:rolleyes:’ a bit. I couldn’t tell if your comments to Istara were meant to be taken as sarcastic, or you were trying to convey exasperation over the concept in general. Don’t take it slow, just be a bit more clear. I’m beginning to really despise the way that smilie is used. It’s the “I don’t have the time or the inclination tell you what is pissing me off, but I feel like letting you know I’m pissed anyway” emoticon.
Now is the time when someone normally comes back with a single ‘:rolleyes:’ as a response, because that would be comic genius.
Tam - thank you. message received and understood.
Istara - you are gracious. Have a good rest.
Waverly. Sarcastic? Me???
Seriously, folks. I’m just an 'umble Ozzie, trying to lighten up the way a bit!
I don’t know if someone told you before, but unless you are under arrest in Saudi Arabia… MOVE!!!
Thanks ramp!
No rest in sight yet though - doing a 6-7 day week, 12-14 hour days.
Thanks, but I’d rather let the feds decide whether it’s a waste of time. The guy has expressed a desire for the United States to be destroyed. On the off chance that he ever tries to pay the United States a visit, I think that’s something the authorities would like to know about in advance.
Again, Paul, I urge you to drop a note with this guy’s name on it to the embassy.
I highly doubt there is **no[/]theft, rape or child molestation. I do know in rape cases, it’s considered the woman’s fault and she could be punished.
My daughter has a friend whose Muslim family hales from Pakistan. The women of the family of one of their relatives were getting the house ready for a wedding when they were robbed by several men invading the house. They were overjoyed that the bride wasn’t raped because then, not only would the wedding be off, but she could be held responsible for the rape. Sick, no?
I have a friend from Pakistan who told me that in his town the young men either moved away, went to jail, or got killed. Period. He may be being a bit sensational but there is definately crime and murder in Islamic countries.
Also, in regards to child molestation: We know that it takes alot of encouragement and support for American victims of child molestation to come forward. Do you think they get any of that encouragement or support in Islamic-run states? Hence, no child molestation!
Yes but does this have to be yet another staredown of diametric opposites?
A lot of us can remember constantly hearing how Communism and Capitalism would “inevitably” collide - just look at their core beliefs - how could it be otherwise? (Plus, look at all the clues in Revelations). Cite: the Sexual Revolution: Since we were all going to be nuked, we might as well enjoy it while we could.
I crossed the Pacific on a ship loaded with Marines, each one ready to “kill a Commie for Mommie.” When we steamed past the Soviet air base in Cahm Ran Bay Vietnam, we were buzzed by Soviet Badger bombers, with pilots ready to “kill a Cappie for Pappy.” The only difference I could tell was that they flipped us off with two fingers; we flipped them off with one.
Or back in the 60’s, everyone was so sure there would be a massive race war in the USA. May sound silly now, but every “long hot summer” people in white neighborhoods sat in their front yards, armed to the teeth and looking down the street for “them” to come (pity the poor black kid with THAT paper route!)
I don’t mean to downplay the threat posed by Islamic Fundamentalism, or its adherents’ determination, but as Armagedons go, it’s just the latest flavor of the month. If they really want us dead, they should keep selling us cheap oil so we can kill ourselves in car crashes (several times more than WTC since 9/11/01).
Well, if PaulinSaudi wishes, I’ll supply the number and contact name to report this. As I mentioned though, the FBI office in Riyadh is spoiled for choice when it comes to America haters.
On a related topic, did you see the Today Show yesterday? It was live from Riyadh, and even showed my office building. It was the most wretched job of white-washing that I have ever seen. The woman doing the interview calmly accepted numerous lies without batting an eye.
Best wishes.
Testy
Saw it and thought that it didn’t do anyone any favors with understanding of Saudi Arabia and the women because of the sound bites used. You can’t understand a whole culture in 10 minute segments!
(Which woman the Saudi or Katie Curic? Thought it was interesting about the matawah harrassing them, so much for Prince Naif telling them to chill!)
I was thinking of the lies the Saudi woman told Katie Couric about Islam requiring an abayya. I agree that trying to understand a culture from sound-bites is probably futile. I loved Katie getting dinged by the mutawwa and was surprised her producer didn’t get really harassed. Did you see the sleeveless dress she was wearing? Woah! Big time sin. S
I don’t think the mutawwa give much of a rat’s ass what prince N. has to say. After all, they’re doing God’s work here. S Supposedly the mutawwah do report to the min of interior these days but I haven’t seen much difference around here. Still the same old pain-in-the-butt they’ve always been.
All the best
Testy.
The obvious problem with Islam is not so much the religion as the culture that has grown up around it. The same set of religious precepts that created groundwork for the enlightenment and toleration of 12th Century Arabia has been used to create the oppressive, intolerant Islam.
(It should be noticed that the Wahhabism that dominates modern Saudi Arabia is one of the most backward forms of Islam.)
What we should be doing is looking at the cultural and political factors that have made islam so fucking intolerant and generally bitchy and start a program to get them on a more civilized keel.
A tall order? You bet! Heavy time investment? Yeah! Lotta money? No, not really. Pump some grants into our universities to do the homework needed and fund a few media programs, something like Voice of America used to be only a LOT more sophisticated.
Worth doing? You bet!
But I don’t see it happening, as it isn’t as exciting or simple a solution as warfare.
Sorry, I missed this.
Katie Couric was in in Riyhadh in a SLEEVELESS dress?
(excuse spelling)