# I am sick of slut shaming through school dress codes **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834 "2014-04-11T00:34:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/81 "2014-04-11T15:53:35Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you have a problem if there is a single dress code that applies to both sexes? That is other than the no dress code idea? As I said before, I don’t think it matters much, but I see no problem with school administration setting a reasonable dress code that is not gender specific. Probably not, but you need to be careful - boys don’t wear “leggings” - the difference between male and female attire is different enough that I don’t think you could have a single dress code - short of uniforms - without looking like you are targeting girls. Boys don’t wear tight pants either currently. Even something like “clean and tasteful” has issues - a girlfriend of mine taught at a middle school that went for a “clean (as in washed) and in good taste” dress code - that fell flat the moment they realized that some kids had to do their laundry at laundrymats - and if the money wasn’t there for both laundry and food, their clothes weren’t clean. And that girls, particularly African American girls, had issues with their body shape in being in good taste year round as they hit puberty and their parents couldn’t afford to replace clothing that had gotten too tight. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/82 "2014-04-11T16:02:43Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What they’re trying to do (albeit perhaps ham-fistedly, and I’m not defending the particular restrictions of this dress code) is address or prevent a problem. I don’t think many people would consider rules against nooses, white hoods and blackface to be examples of “institutionalized racism.” Are the black kids carrying nooses and wearing white hoods? This is more akin to saying “well, black kids your culture is incendiary, so you’ll need to talk like white people and straighten your hair so that the white people don’t pick on you.” Which… [http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tax-funded-christian-school-threatens-bullied-black-girl-with-expulsion-over-her-natural-hair/discrimination/2013/11/26/79362](http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/tax-funded-christian-school-threatens-bullied-black-girl-with-expulsion-over-her-natural-hair/discrimination/2013/11/26/79362) ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/83 "2014-04-11T16:34:11Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Maybe, but that shouldn’t be OUR problem as women. That’s sort of your problem - to have the self control necessary to ignore that visual stimulation and act appropriately. Many men do it - most men I know do it. Even teenage boys manage to do it - I have a fifteen year old son and while he’s been in trouble for other things, its never been inappropriate behavior to his female classmates, and his grades have never suffered due to “mmm, boobies.” To say that the way a fifteen year old girl dresses is so distracting that boys lose their brains is frankly, not giving the majority of the boys enough credit. Serious question– Why should ALL the burden of self control be placed on the boys? Why shouldn’t the girls be required to exercise a little self control by means of not going half naked in public, regardless of how much they want to show off their bodies? Pioneer women wore floor-length skirts, and multiple petticoats under the skirts, regardless of how hot the weather got. Today’s women could do the same if they wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/84 "2014-04-11T17:07:56Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Serious question– > Why should ALL the burden of self control be placed on the boys? Why shouldn’t the girls be required to exercise a little self control by means of not going half naked in public, regardless of how much they want to show off their bodies? > > Pioneer women wore floor-length skirts, and multiple petticoats under the skirts, regardless of how hot the weather got. Today’s women could do the same if they wanted to. So, its ok to treat a person without respect because you can’t control your own behavior? Its ok to make another person responsible for your self control? If you are a recovering alcoholic, its OK to demand that no one use alcohol in your presence? If you are on a diet, its OK to demand society not eat junk food around you? If you like to spend money, should we demand stores stop carrying anything other than necessities? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/85 "2014-04-11T17:21:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The fuck??? How about we “deal with it” by teaching _the boys_ involved it’s unacceptable. And if they won’t be taught, by suspending _them_. Yeah, let’s teach our young girls to live in a bubble because they might be exposed to some skeevy behaviour when they wear revealing clothes. Deal with it doesn’t have to mean “accept it”. I wasn’t positing harassment or bullying. Da fuck rightbackatcha. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/86 "2014-04-11T17:34:16Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Serious question– > Why should ALL the burden of self control be placed on the boys? Why shouldn’t the girls be required to exercise a little self control by means of not going half naked in public, regardless of how much they want to show off their bodies? > > Pioneer women wore floor-length skirts, and multiple petticoats under the skirts, regardless of how hot the weather got. Today’s women could do the same if they wanted to. Because the boys are the agent of action for harassment, rape, etc. Therefore it falls on them to act in a civilized manner, no matter what. If they can’t, they should be gelded for the protection of society at large. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/87 "2014-04-11T17:35:06Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Also …do you draw the line anywhere? You said you were ok with bikini’s…why not naked? I think it should be just fine for girls to go to school naked if they want to. To deny them their choice of dress makes you a sexist pig and a good feminist would certainly agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/88 "2014-04-11T17:48:46Z")
> [@Pedro](#): > > Yeah, let’s teach our young girls to live in a bubble because they might be exposed to some skeevy behaviour when they wear revealing clothes. You’d rather teach them to suck up the abuse and have no official recourse against harassment. Gotcha. > [@](#): > > Deal with it doesn’t have to mean “accept it”. 😕 Sorry, maybe my knowledge of American idiom has failed me, but isn’t that _exactly_ what it means when used that way? > [@](#): > > I wasn’t positing harassment or bullying. You were saying they had to get used to being catcalled because that’s how society works. If that’s not harassment, what is it? Wait, do you work construction? ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/89 "2014-04-11T17:59:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You’d rather teach them to suck up the abuse and have no official recourse against harassment. Gotcha.😕 Sorry, maybe my knowledge of American idiom has failed me, but isn’t that _exactly_ what it means when used that way?You were saying they had to get used to being catcalled because that’s how society works. If that’s not harassment, what is it? No, that’s not what I said. You even quoted me explaining that. Deal with it = handle it. There’s a spectrum between ignoring and filing a restraining order. > [@](#): > > Wait, do you work construction? Sexist pig! ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/90 "2014-04-11T18:06:48Z")
Anthony Bourdain had an episode in Saudi Arabia (IIRC) where he was with a female tour guide and she took him to the local chicken joint. There were two separate eating areas: one was for families, the other for single men. She went on to explain that the segregation, the need for wearing the hijabi, et al wasn’t because the women were being excluded, it was that MEN couldn’t be trusted with their impulses. I thought to myself that that’s a backwards rationale and pretty immature either way. Then I see some of the views in this thread and realize that the slippery slope ain’t too far away from that rationale. I don’t know where the line exactly should be, but I know it’s far away from making women feel like they have to wear hijabi to keep the men at bay. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/91 "2014-04-11T18:09:06Z")
Dear God I am thankful for the ways girls dressed when I was growing up. Even though I was far too scared to actually talk to them, when they’d come to school on a warm day with shorts and a halter top. I enjoy those outfits even more four decades on in just my memories. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/92 "2014-04-11T18:11:47Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Probably not, but you need to be careful - boys don’t wear “leggings” - the difference between male and female attire is different enough that I don’t think you could have a single dress code - short of uniforms - without looking like you are targeting girls. Boys don’t wear tight pants either currently. I don’t mind uniforms, and they should be gender neutral too. A lot of parents like the uniform idea, which doesn’t have to be specific clothing, just pants and a shirt in limited colors. If you want to allow girls to wear skirts boys should get to wear them also. Other than that I don’t think this issue has any thing to do with sexual harassment, just a stupid administrator in the case you cited. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/93 "2014-04-11T18:25:46Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > I don’t know where the line exactly should be, but I know it’s far away from making women feel like they have to wear hijabi to keep the men at bay. \*\*Dangerosa \*\*believes girlks should have the freedom to wear bikinis to school. I think we can agree that does not promote a atmosphere conducive to educating adolescents. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/94 "2014-04-11T18:36:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > \*\*Dangerosa \*\*believes girlks should have the freedom to wear bikinis to school. I think we can agree that does not promote a atmosphere conducive to educating adolescents. I’d rather they have the freedom to wear bikinis than be restricted to burqas. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/95 "2014-04-11T18:49:01Z")
Maybe my age is showing, but leggings are not pants. I don’t have a problem with a dress code that states no leggings unless your crotch is covered. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/96 "2014-04-11T19:41:55Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > There are a ton of rules the school doesn’t bother to enforce…swearing is a big one. That’s a cultural norm. Sagging pants on boys. Talking over the teacher. Why are they choosing to enforce this one, but the teachers are complaining about boys getting up and walking out of the classroom, and they can’t do anything about it? Apparently, behavior that is “male centric” (swearing, questioning authority) we will over look, but when its “female centric” behavior (questionable fashion choices) we must put a stop to it. Which school are you talking about here? Your daughter’s? Are you saying if kids swear within earshot of teachers, they’ll still get away with it? Or if they talk over a teacher who notices it? That would surprise me, and is probably a bigger problem than either enforcing or improving dress codes, if it’s true. Both of those problems will have a far greater effect on a student’s abilities to learn. I suspect a school’s true reasoning for the dress code is more than just that it will distract boys. Appropriate dress is one of those things that’s quite hard to logically argue for. We have, as a society, decided what is acceptable for a given situation, and what isn’t. We have all decided individually, too. We all have a line, and it’s pretty hard to defend. To anyone advocating no dress code, how would you feel about students turning up naked? I know it’s an obvious _ad absurdum_ (and it has come up already) but I think it illustrates my point nicely. I doubt many would consider a complete lack of clothes at school acceptable, but how could a “no dress code” advocate argue against it except to say it crosses an arbitrary and personal line? One aspect of their true reasoning might be that school staff (particularly the men) may be made uncomfortable by female students showing a lot of themselves. I have a friend who works in a school and he has mentioned at least one student (admittedly a particularly difficult one) who is well aware of the power she can exercise over him. To be clear, the power I’m referring to is not about turning him into a mindless, sex-crazed zombie, it’s about making him feel uncomfortable with what he is seeing, the awkwardness of addressing it, and the damage that could be done to his life if he mishandles the situation. I imagine having a dress code helps him do his job. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/97 "2014-04-11T19:49:07Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > One aspect of their true reasoning might be that school staff (particularly the men) may be made uncomfortable by female students showing a lot of themselves. Unfortunately, relatively few people care if a woman makes a man uncomfortable. The very idea that men’s discomfort exists is sometimes used as an excuse to degrade men. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/98 "2014-04-11T20:34:41Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’d rather they have the freedom to wear bikinis than be restricted to burqas. Faced with the choice, I’d rather they have the freedom to smoke crack in class than be raped and mutilated by silverback mountain gorillas. I doubt we’ll find ourselves at these particular crossroads anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/99 "2014-04-11T20:37:24Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Which school are you talking about here? Your daughter’s? > > Are you saying if kids swear within earshot of teachers, they’ll still get away with it? Or if they talk over a teacher who notices it? That would surprise me, and is probably a bigger problem than either enforcing or improving dress codes, if it’s true. Both of those problems will have a far greater effect on a student’s abilities to learn. > > I suspect a school’s true reasoning for the dress code is more than just that it will distract boys. Appropriate dress is one of those things that’s quite hard to logically argue for. We have, as a society, decided what is acceptable for a given situation, and what isn’t. We have all decided individually, too. We all have a line, and it’s pretty hard to defend. To anyone advocating no dress code, how would you feel about students turning up naked? I know it’s an obvious _ad absurdum_ (and it has come up already) but I think it illustrates my point nicely. I doubt many would consider a complete lack of clothes at school acceptable, but how could a “no dress code” advocate argue against it except to say it crosses an arbitrary and personal line? > > One aspect of their true reasoning might be that school staff (particularly the men) may be made uncomfortable by female students showing a lot of themselves. I have a friend who works in a school and he has mentioned at least one student (admittedly a particularly difficult one) who is well aware of the power she can exercise over him. To be clear, the power I’m referring to is not about turning him into a mindless, sex-crazed zombie, it’s about making him feel uncomfortable with what he is seeing, the awkwardness of addressing it, and the damage that could be done to his life if he mishandles the situation. I imagine having a dress code helps him do his job. Yep, my daughters. I’m uncomfortable around gay people, is it ok if they just aren’t gay around me? I mean, they can be gay, just not act it. You know, like they do. They should act straight. When they act gay around me, they exercise a power over me, and that isn’t fair. And I would think your friends job would be a lot easier if he didn’t have to address it. Then all that awkwardness goes away. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834/100 "2014-04-11T21:03:39Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Faced with the choice, I’d rather they have the freedom to smoke crack in class than be raped and mutilated by silverback mountain gorillas. I doubt we’ll find ourselves at these particular crossroads anytime soon. That cracked me up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-sick-of-slut-shaming-through-school-dress-codes/685834.md?page=6)