# I Am Somewhat Upset Over Two Things (Miss America related)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 16, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969 "2013-09-16T13:46:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/121 "2013-09-19T14:40:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Maybe it’s my monitor, but omgiaminlovewithdianahayden.
She’s HOT.
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### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/122 "2013-09-19T14:48:05Z")
Of course, there are many millions of Indian women darker than _all_ of the above…
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/123 "2013-09-19T14:54:05Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#):
>
> Its not true **Really Not All That Bright**
You may have to do more than that refute the cites. I don’t know you. I don’t know if you know any Indians or are Indian. If you are then you know that all of those picture still fall on the fairer side of Indian complexions. I tend to believe those from Indian who say its true. Both in the article I cited above and this [one](http://www.indiatogether.org/manushi/issue143/beauties.htm) that was imbedded in that article.
> [@](#):
>
> I sat in on weekly individual sessions that dermatologist Dr. Jamuna Pai held with the contestants in order to examine their skin. Every single one of the young women was taking some sort of medication to alter her skin, particularly in colour, in the training programme in 2003. In a disturbingly casual manner, Dr. Pai emphasized the need for all the contestants to bleach their skin by prescribing the peeling agent Retin-A as well as glycolic acid and, in the case of isolated dark patches, a laser treatment.
>
> When I asked Dr. Pai, who trained as a plastic surgeon in London, why fair skin was such a concern at the pageant, she offered the following explanation. “Fair skin is really an obsession with us, it’s a fixation. Even with the fairest of the fair, they feel they want to be fairer. It isn’t important anymore, because the international winners are getting darker and darker.You wouldn’t notice our obsession, because you have such beautiful white skin, but I feel it’s ingrained in us. When an Indian man looks for a bride, he wants one who is tall, fair and slim, and fairer people always get jobs first. Today, this is being disproved because of the success internationally of dark-skinned models, but we still lighten their skin here because it gives the girls extra confidence when they go abroad.”
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### Author:  [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/124 "2013-09-19T15:07:53Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> You may have to do more than that refute the cites. I don’t know you. I don’t know if you know any Indians or are Indian. If you are then you know that all of those picture still fall on the fairer side of Indian complexions. I tend to believe those from Indian who say its true. Both in the article I cited above and this
I am an Indian living in india, (born and brought up here).
I am not saying it doesnt happen. Like I said, Miss america(who is the subject of discussion) falls in same bracket as the gals I listed for most Indians. and so if they can become Miss India, Nina devuruli wouldnt have had to worry abt her skin color if she was in miss india contest.
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### Author:  [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/125 "2013-09-19T15:09:59Z")
> [@carnut](#):
>
> I think you are wanted by the majority of “us”. But remember, haters are everywhere and then tend to be vocal about it. Hate is a great attention-getting advice and many haters are seeking just that.
Agreed.
But.
All the people who inevitably post defensively that “WE’RE NOT ALL LIKE THAT!” are just as attention-seeking as the haters. The difference is that they instead want to make sure that everyone looks at them and sees how NOT racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/etc (I’ll just spell out racist after this, since that’s the topic of the thread, but this applies to a wide variety of bigotry) they are. The end result is that [_yet again_, the group that experiences racism is ignored or shouted down so white people can make the conversation all about them](http://racismschool.tumblr.com/post/15819666254/were-not-all-like-that):
> [@](#):
>
> {bolding mine}
> Why are you feeling like you need to defend white people? I am being completely serious with that question. When a person of color talks about something that is being done/has been done to oppress them and uses the words “White people,” **why do you feel the need to say “Not all white people?” We know. Do you think we don’t know?** Lets say you DO think we don’t know, now what? You’ve said that its not “all of you”. Okay **but the experience the person had, the feelings the person is feeling, are they not valid now that you announced that not all white people do it and IMMEDIATELY start to talk about YOU?**
>
> Oh you didn’t think we noticed that did you? You see this is the REAL problem with “Not all white people” you are saying “NOT ME” and **not only do I want to point out “NOT ME” but I want praise for it “NOT BEING ME.” I will give you proof that “NOT ME” and I will derail the entire conversation, entire argument, the entire point of your post to tell you how not racist I am.** If you don’t back up and STOP YOUR ORIGINAL DISCUSSION to tell me that you know that “NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE” then I will be an upset and highly offended white person. Then, likely call racism.
>
> Which leads to the second problem. You being offended that someone doesn’t stop to re-step with “Not all white people” is not MORE offensive than the oppressive conversation. **It is not about you. Stop making it about you. Your feelings are hurt because someone is talking about oppression and you want to STOP THEM FROM TALKING to remind them that “Not you?”**
>
> This is not about you. Stop making it about you.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/126 "2013-09-19T15:52:46Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#):
>
> I am an Indian living in india, (born and brought up here).
> I am not saying it doesnt happen. Like I said, Miss america(who is the subject of discussion) falls in same bracket as the gals I listed for most Indians. and so if they can become Miss India, Nina devuruli wouldnt have had to worry abt her skin color if she was in miss india contest.
Do you think the report that every single contestant in the Miss India pageant used skin lightening products to no longer be true? The report seemed credible but it was from 10 years ago.
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### Author:  [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/127 "2013-09-19T16:08:59Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> Do you think the report that every single contestant in the Miss India pageant used skin lightening products to no longer be true? The report seemed credible but it was from 10 years ago.
skin lightening products isnt specific to beauty pageants. people use it day-to-day.
You guys have obsession with tanning (tht some even get skin cancer), we have (I’d say to a lesser extent) obsession to be seen fairer.
Doesn’t mean that darker ladies are unacceptable, majority of Indians are brown(like Freida pinto) anyways.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/128 "2013-09-19T16:13:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> When a person of color talks about something that is being done/has been done to oppress them and uses the words “White people,” why do you feel the need to say “Not all white people?” We know. Do you think we don’t know? Lets say you DO think we don’t know, now what? You’ve said that its not “all of you”. Okay but the experience the person had, the feelings the person is feeling, are they not valid now that you announced that not all white people do it and IMMEDIATELY start to talk about YOU?
When a white person talks about something that is being done/has been done to offend them and uses the words “black people,” why do you feel the need to say “Not all black people?” We know. Do you think we don’t know? Lets say you DO think we don’t know, now what? You’ve said that its not “all of you”. Okay but the experience the person had, the feelings the person is feeling, are they not valid now that you announced that not all black people do it?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/129 "2013-09-19T19:09:58Z")
Is anyone really surprised that Shodan and John Mace are making themselves out to be casually racist assholes?
Anyone?
Didn’t think so.
That’s really the problem with giving the super-racist any attention at all. It just lets people think “Ok, well, I’m not using slurs, so I can still make racist jokes and I’ll be ok! I’m not a racist, THOSE people are racist. I’m safe until I go join the KKK” when no, it doesn’t work like that. You’re not “satirizing” anything.
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### Author:  [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/130 "2013-09-19T19:25:12Z")
Is it wrong if I find some of those funny?
Miss 7-11. Lol
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/131 "2013-09-19T19:43:38Z")
I’m surprised at John.
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### Author:  [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/132 "2013-09-20T00:35:41Z")
> [@panaccione](#):
>
> Is it wrong if I find some of those funny?
>
> Miss 7-11. Lol
Yes that’s funny. Some are funny most are atrocious. Recently an american , Lauren gottlieb, nearly won an Indian celebrity dance show, nobody would have tweeted that he ain’t Indian or he doesn’t even speak Hindi even if she had won.
Vast majority of Americans are obviously fine but these tiny number some of whom are attention seeking trolls do spoil it somewhat…not for me, but for Indian-americans and all other Americans.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/133 "2013-09-20T03:52:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I’m surprised at John.
So was I.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/134 "2013-09-20T04:27:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#):
>
> So did minstrelry. Adding BUT AS A JOKE at the end of racism doesn’t make it any better.
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> It always did when _National Lampoon_ did it.
Like, [here](http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/Extras/foreigners.html).
'Course, **John** is no P.J. O’Rourke.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/135 "2013-09-20T13:53:02Z")
[Here](http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-19-2013/back-in-brown-with-aasif-mandvi)’s a segment from The Daily Show featuring Aasif Mandvi about the Miss America controversy. (Note that the video may be unavailable to those outside the US.)
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### Author:  [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/136 "2013-09-20T14:58:08Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> When a white person talks about something that is being done/has been done to offend them and uses the words “black people,” why do you feel the need to say “Not all black people?” We know. Do you think we don’t know? Lets say you DO think we don’t know, now what? You’ve said that its not “all of you”. Okay but the experience the person had, the feelings the person is feeling, are they not valid now that you announced that not all black people do it?
By reflexively changing the topic of conversation to instances where you or some other self-satisfied, chortling, probably-mustachioed white male has personally been offended by black people, and then been meta-offended that other people pointed out the unnecessarily racially-tinged rhetoric you used to voice your complaints, so that you could be smugly triple-meta-offended about it, instead of either A) dealing with the actual topic at hand or B) just, like, shutting the fuck up for once, you certainly scored a proper burn on that blogger who said assholes like you like to make the conversation about yourselves, didn’t you?
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### Author:  [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/137 "2013-09-20T15:13:33Z")
Geez **truthSeeker2** , have you been loading up the spank bank or what?
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/138 "2013-09-20T16:27:02Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#):
>
> By reflexively changing the topic of conversation to instances where you or some other self-satisfied, chortling, probably-mustachioed white male has personally been offended by black people, and then been meta-offended that other people pointed out the unnecessarily racially-tinged rhetoric you used to voice your complaints, so that you could be smugly triple-meta-offended about it, instead of either A) dealing with the actual topic at hand or B) just, like, shutting the fuck up for once, you certainly scored a proper burn on that blogger who said assholes like you like to make the conversation about yourselves, didn’t you?
Nah, I was making fun of the post.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)
#### Post date: [September 20, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/139 "2013-09-20T19:26:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#):
>
> Nah, I was making fun of the post.
Let’s switch the races to show those pesky minorities how racist they’re being. That’ll show 'em!
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### Author:  [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)
#### Post date: [September 21, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-somewhat-upset-over-two-things-miss-america-related/668969/140 "2013-09-21T09:40:31Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#):
>
> Geez **truthSeeker2** , have you been loading up the spank bank or what?
Not loading up at present, but some of these have already been in my spank bank from a long time .😃
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