# I am SPARTACUS -- I mean msmith537 **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 2, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294 "2017-09-02T02:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/21 "2017-09-02T19:59:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If you want to use inflammatory language to characterize what you believe to be someone else’s opinion, you are free to do that in the Pit. Using deliberately inflammatory language in IMHO or other forums does not really assist in civil discussion. > > And we’ve never considered “but he said something offensive first” to be a legitimate defense against insulting another poster. That mischaracterizes my point, which is that if it is a fair paraphrase then no new inflammatory/insulting thing has been added. Of course, it might not be a fair paraphrase. I’n saying you cannot duck that problem. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you clarify? Are you saying that you think: > > 1. **Flyer** should have been moderated for making an offensive comment, and **smith** should not have been moderated since his paraphrase was accurate. > > 2. Both posters should have been moderated for offensive and/or insulting posts. > > 3. Neither poster should have been moderated. > > 4. Something else? I am saying the result ought to turn on the fairness of the paraphrase. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/22 "2017-09-02T20:08:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes. It. DOES!!! You’ve literally just taken the bullshit that homophobes say all the time. If you have a problem with homosexual behavior, you can’t love the sinner and hate the sin. It’s just bigotry, and that is hatred. > > But, hey. Got to make excuses to defend bigotry. Can’t actually care about other people enough to actually use what power you have to stop it. > > And don’t bring up inflammatory language when you attacked me via PM. You love using inflammatory language against people you hate. I had to be all deferential, you got to try to hurt me as much as you could. I had to shut off PMs because you were making me want to attack you. > > So stop trying to pretend you care about some sacred rules. AFAIK, you can’t block PMs from moderators. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/23 "2017-09-02T20:12:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This will not end well. No one insults me via PM…I feel left out. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/24 "2017-09-02T20:20:11Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That mischaracterizes my point, which is that if it is a fair paraphrase then no new inflammatory/insulting thing has been added. Of course, it might not be a fair paraphrase. I’n saying you cannot duck that problem. If you respond to a statement that was made in non-inflammatory manner (even if you find the opinion itself offensive) with a response framed in an inflammatory way then in fact something inflammatory has been added. I’m sorry, but your “point” is quite clearly incorrect, even if the paraphrase is fair. > [@](#): > > I am saying the result ought to turn on the fairness of the paraphrase. As I’ve already said, even without the inflammatory language the paraphrase was inaccurate. Disapproval of behavior does not equate to personal hatred. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/25 "2017-09-02T20:34:34Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > AFAIK, you can’t block PMs from moderators. You’re correct. Oh man, I laughed out loud at that. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/26 "2017-09-02T20:38:19Z")
I am reminded of the case where a poster got in trouble for “pretending” another poster with whom they disagreed said “nigger”…and not in an academic way either… Fortunately, the powers that be got right on that and suspended said poster for a whopping 3 days…over a weekend none the less! Poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/27 "2017-09-02T20:53:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “I think homosexuality is sexual pervasion.” I’m no seeing why that would be out of bounds as an opinion to state in IMHO. “You hate fags” is a personal insult, directed at the poster. Not OK in IMHO, but perfect OK in the BBQ Pit. This. It’s not so complicated. 1. **Flyer** stated an opinion about the world. 2. **msmith537** then a) restated that opinion b) in a way that amounted to directly insulting **Flyer**. 1, 2, and 2a are all fair game in IMHO. 2b. is out of bounds. In IMHO. FTR I agree with the many posters who disagree with **Flyer** ’s opinions about the world in this and other threads. I also find his method of posting statistically extreme doctrine as if it was self-evident divinely determined fact to be overbearing bordering on deliberately inflammatory. Those things are not against the rules however. Said another way: Shouting “I’m an idiot” is OK by the rules. Shouting “I agree: You’re an idiot” is not OK by the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/28 "2017-09-02T21:20:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If you respond to a statement that was made in non-inflammatory manner (even if you find the opinion itself offensive) with a response framed in an inflammatory way then in fact something inflammatory has been added. I’m sorry, but your “point” is quite clearly incorrect, even if the paraphrase is fair. That’s a rather odd and wrong idea of language, that somehow inflammatory nature is severable from semantic content. But you seem quite sure of yourself, so go for it man. > [@Colibri](#): > > As I’ve already said, even without the inflammatory language the paraphrase was inaccurate. Disapproval of behavior does not equate to personal hatred. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn’t. But that is beside my point. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/29 "2017-09-02T21:25:27Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Stop making inflammatory predictions. Stop telling people what to do. Junior Modding! JUNIOR MODDING!!! I call shenanigans. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/30 "2017-09-02T21:39:10Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > …!!!.. That’s inflammatory punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/31 "2017-09-02T21:55:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That’s a rather odd and wrong idea of language, that somehow inflammatory nature is severable from semantic content. But you seem quite sure of yourself, so go for it man. I don’t believe a detailed semantic analysis is needed to determine if “fags” is inflammatory. > [@](#): > > Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn’t. But that is beside my point. Part of your point was whether or not it was a fair paraphrase. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/32 "2017-09-02T22:05:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t believe a detailed semantic analysis is needed to determine if “fags” is inflammatory… Obviously “fags” is inflammatory. I think one aspect of Richard’s point rests more on whether Flyer’s stated opinion was equally inflammatory. Sometimes weasel words can carry the same meaning as explicitly offensive words. But I don’t disagree that, outside the Pit, there are more appropriate ways to call out such opinions that are equally effective. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/33 "2017-09-02T22:21:31Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Obviously “fags” is inflammatory. I think one aspect of Richard’s point rests more on whether Flyer’s stated opinion was equally inflammatory. Sometimes weasel words can carry the same meaning as explicitly offensive words. > > But I don’t disagree that, outside the Pit, there are more appropriate ways to call out such opinions that are equally effective. Regardless of whether **Flyer’s** opinion was inflammatory, responding in an inflammatory way was against the rules. As I said, “He started it!” is not a defense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/34 "2017-09-02T22:30:50Z")
I’m trying to imagine a debate about Same Sex Marriage (and we’ve had many such debates here) without allowing the anti side to express views on homosexuality. Not seeing how that could happen, if we assume that any expression that homosexuality, or homosexual acts, is “wrong” is also inflammatory. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/35 "2017-09-02T23:28:54Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That mischaracterizes my point, which is that if it is a fair paraphrase then no new inflammatory/insulting thing has been added. Of course, it might not be a fair paraphrase. I’n saying you cannot duck that problem > [@](#): > > I am saying the result ought to turn on the fairness of the paraphrase. I don’t feel that **msmith537** ’s paraphrase was a fair one. **Flyer** ’s post displayed a disgust with the behavior of a group of people. It did not state that those people should be referred to by an ugly slur. The assumption that the first probably means the second is not the issue. You don’t get to make that accusation outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/36 "2017-09-02T23:37:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yes. It. DOES!!! You’ve literally just taken the bullshit that homophobes say all the time. If you have a problem with homosexual behavior, you can’t love the sinner and hate the sin. It’s just bigotry, and that is hatred. > > But, hey. Got to make excuses to defend bigotry. Can’t actually care about other people enough to actually use what power you have to stop it. > > And don’t bring up inflammatory language when you attacked me via PM. You love using inflammatory language against people you hate. I had to be all deferential, you got to try to hurt me as much as you could. I had to shut off PMs because you were making me want to attack you. > > So stop trying to pretend you care about some sacred rules. Whoa, settle down Beavis. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/37 "2017-09-02T23:42:45Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Regardless of whether **Flyer’s** opinion was inflammatory, responding in an inflammatory way was against the rules. As I said, “He started it!” is not a defense. But do you think \*\*Flyer \*\*should have got a warning/ note too? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/38 "2017-09-03T00:05:31Z")
Wait, what is the actual insult in this case? “You are \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” What goes in the blank? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/39 "2017-09-03T00:23:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wait, what is the actual insult in this case? > > “You are \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” > > What goes in the blank? A person who hates fags. But there are other sentence structures that can be employed to insult someone, so just because a person doesn’t use the phrase “you are…” doesn’t mean they haven’t insulted anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2017, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294/40 "2017-09-03T00:25:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Wait, what is the actual insult in this case? > > “You are \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” > > What goes in the blank? You are a person that uses terms such as _fag_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-am-spartacus-i-mean-msmith537/795294.md?page=3)