# I apologise in advance: Crop Circles **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653 "2003-09-05T03:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/61 "2003-09-07T03:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*I’ll be the second person to ask for a cite on this, Leroy. \*\* Sure Messages from Space: Crop Circles Bring the First Indisputable Extra-Terrestrial Signs from Space by Jay Goldner (Paperback) Avg. Customer Rating: ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/62 "2003-09-07T03:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*No offense Lekatt, but just what would it take for _you to **believe** someone_? \*\* I will believe them when they speak truth. Simple is it not? “But how will I know truth?” – Luke Skywalker “Ye shall know truth by its peace and calm.” --Yoda Love ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/63 "2003-09-07T03:28:41Z")
Wow, if we can use the _Lekatt Standard_ of evidence, then we know definitively that there was a huge spaceship buried in Maine for twenty million years… (_Tommyknockers_, by Stephen King (paperback)) … Or that Jack Ryan became president of the US after most of the HR and Senate were killed in a plane crash… (_Debt of Honor_, by Tom Clancy (paperback)) … Or that we sent a manned mission to Saturn two years ago… (_2001, A Space Odyssey_, by Arthur C. Clarke. (paperback, screenplay.) Man, World History sure is more interesting now that I know that, as long as some mook can write a book about it, it _MUST_ be true! Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go find that talking penguin that kept running for President back in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/64 "2003-09-07T03:32:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*Wow, if we can use the _Lekatt Standard_ of evidence, then we know definitively that there was a huge spaceship buried in Maine for twenty million years… > > (_Tommyknockers_, > by Stephen King (paperback)) > > … Or that Jack Ryan became president of the US after most of the HR and Senate were killed in a plane crash… > > (_Debt of Honor_, > by Tom Clancy (paperback)) > > … Or that we sent a manned mission to Saturn two years ago… > > (_2001, A Space Odyssey_, > by Arthur C. Clarke. (paperback, screenplay.) > > Man, World History sure is more interesting now that I know that, as long as some mook can write a book about it, it _MUST_ be true! > > Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to go find that talking penguin that kept running for President back in the 80s. \*\* Don’t remember recommending any of those books, so you must be having fun at the expense of knowledge. Love ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/65 "2003-09-07T03:48:31Z")
Ah, but according to you, if someone writes a book about something, then the book is true, right? I mean, this Jay Goldner couldn’t _possibly_ be writing new-age crap simply to get rich selling books to the Roswellites, Atlantis theorists and the rest of the tinfoil-hat crowd? _Naaaaaaaaah._ ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/66 "2003-09-07T06:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*Thank you David. I don’t so much care what people think, \*\* Yes, I can tell. Just the fact that you spend days trying to convince people about your "out of body"experience, or was it “near death” or both, proves that you don’t care what people think. > [@](#): > > **as long as they do it on their own instead of following the latest trend or fashion.** Says the admitted follower of New Age Religion, Philosophy or what have you. > [@](#): > > **Unfortunately most are very lazy, just take what the professior, teacher, parent, peer, authority figure hands them and believes it so strongly they will defend it to the death.** Or the latest whiz-bang paperback by who was it again? Oh yes, Jay Goldner. > [@](#): > > **If you haven’t done the research personally, you don’t know.** I “researched” [Goldner’s website, Hello Jupiter](http://www.hellojupiter.com/inwebE/introductions.html) and wasn’t impressed. But hey, that’s not him, it’s me. > [@](#): > > **… just think for yourself occasionally.** But thanks, anyway, for all the advice. I don’t think I could get along without it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/67 "2003-09-07T18:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*Ah, but according to you, if someone writes a book about something, then the book is true, right? > > I mean, this Jay Goldner couldn’t _possibly_ be writing new-age crap simply to get rich selling books to the Roswellites, Atlantis theorists and the rest of the tinfoil-hat crowd? > > _Naaaaaaaaah._ \*\* Thank you for your enlightened analysis of ??? Perhaps you would grace us with more analysis of the documents listed below. Vital Signs: A Complete Guide to the Crop Circle Mystery and Why It Is Not a Hoax by Andy Thomas, Mike Leigh (Paperback - January 2003) Avg. Customer Rating: The Deepening Complexity of Crop Circles: Scientific Research and Urban Legends by Eltjo H. Haselhoff (Paperback) Avg. Customer Rating: Secrets in the Fields: The Science and Mysticism of Crop Circles by Freddy Silva (Paperback - September 2002) Avg. Customer Rating Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/68 "2003-09-07T19:00:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David Simmons \* > \*\*Yes, I can tell. Just the fact that you spend days trying to convince people about your "out of body"experience, or was it “near death” or both, proves that you don’t care what people think. > > Says the admitted follower of New Age Religion, Philosophy or what have you. > Or the latest whiz-bang paperback by who was it again? Oh yes, Jay Goldner. > > I “researched” [Goldner’s website, Hello Jupiter](http://www.hellojupiter.com/inwebE/introductions.html) and wasn’t impressed. But hey, that’s not him, it’s me. > > But thanks, anyway, for all the advice. I don’t think I could get along without it. \*\* Don’t mention it, just glad to be of service. Love ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/69 "2003-09-08T01:16:35Z")
> [@](#): > > **Perhaps you would grace us with more analysis of the documents listed below.** -Perhaps you could grace _us_ with any relevant argument that might be present in any of those works. You apparently are unable to grasp the sigificance of my previous posts, so allow me to be blunt: **Just because someone writes a book on a topic, does NOT make that topic true, or the events authentic.** Fact: It has been proven, time and again, that crop circles are hoaxes- _the very people who made them_ have often appeared in the news or on TV clearly stating “We did it for fun, as a joke”. We have seen them made in publicity stunts, we have video documentation by news crews. Perhaps not for each and every so-called circle, but enough. There is nothing- **NOTHING** - involved with “crop circles” that can even remotely be construed as extraterrestrial. It has been shown, many times, that two kids with a board and some rope can make a circle of considerable size and complex geometry, in a relatively short period of time. Why would alien spacecraft make similar markings? All the circles ever made have been within one or two fields, and perhaps as large as several hundred yards long. If a visiting alien wants to place a message, why not a “circle” encompassing ten whole squares? (A “square” being a square mile.) Why not all of Kansas? Why not indeed- the people making them cannot squash that much wheat in one night with just a rope and a board. Why not cut the crop off and make the stems just “vanish”? Again, the kids couldn’t possibly cut and carry off enough wheat to make a fair-sized circle, in just one night- not short of a combine or harvester tractor, anyway. Why not burn it? The original “explanation” of circles, way back in the day, is they were the marks where the spacecraft’s landing legs squashed the grass. The designs eventually evolved so we’re now trying to say they’re signs or symbols in their own right. Burns, carefully focussed, could be said to be “rocket exhaust” or somthing- but again, the pranksters making the circles can’t do that, as it moves from the practical joking and into the wanton vandalism. Plus, it’s hard to hide a bonfire at night. If the aliens have the power to cross vast interstellar space, why not do something besides just squash plants? How about zapping them with something that severaly reduces certain plants’ growth, so the pattern shows only after they reach maturity? (Again, the simple answer is, the kids don’t know how to do that, or what chemicals to use.) Or the other way- zap 'em with something to significantly increases their growth. A ‘circle’ made from wheat three times taller than the surrounding wheat, for example. (Again, the answer here is that the kids making the circles can’t do that- if they could, they’d make fortunes as agricultural biochemists.) Why only cultivated crop fields? Why has no circle ever been seen on a large golf course? Or on the African savannah somewhere? No spacecraft has ever stomped a huge circle in a field of new-fallen snow, or melted one into a large glacier, or printed one in the snowfall on the side of Mt. Shasta. No circle has ever been burned into the tarmac of a Wal-Mart parking lot, or scuffed into the dunes of the Shahara Desert. Nope, none of that. They’re always relatively small-scale circles in some farmers’ grain crop. And there’s never any lingering traces of anything extraterrestrial- no cosmic equivalents of Mountain Dew cans. The circles are always something mere humans can do- just bent stalks. Nothing’s vanished, or been inexplicably altered, or shows any sign of being anything other than squashed by some guy with a board. If you have some contrary argument or explanation, **lekatt** , I’m more than willing to listen. But the facts of the matter are, at the point, that the chances that any “crop circle”, made anywhere to date, was a product of non-terrestrial beings or technology, are so vanishingly small we can quite reliably call it **completely impossible**. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/70 "2003-09-08T04:00:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*-Perhaps you could grace _us_ with any relevant argument that might be present in any of those works. > > You apparently are unable to grasp the sigificance of my previous posts, so allow me to be blunt: > > **Just because someone writes a book on a topic, does NOT make that topic true, or the events authentic.** > > Fact: It has been proven, time and again, that crop circles are hoaxes- _the very people who made them_ have often appeared in the news or on TV clearly stating “We did it for fun, as a joke”. > > We have seen them made in publicity stunts, we have video documentation by news crews. Perhaps not for each and every so-called circle, but enough. > > There is nothing- **NOTHING** - involved with “crop circles” that can even remotely be construed as extraterrestrial. It has been shown, many times, that two kids with a board and some rope can make a circle of considerable size and complex geometry, in a relatively short period of time. > > Why would alien spacecraft make similar markings? > > All the circles ever made have been within one or two fields, and perhaps as large as several hundred yards long. If a visiting alien wants to place a message, why not a “circle” encompassing ten whole squares? (A “square” being a square mile.) Why not all of Kansas? > > Why not indeed- the people making them cannot squash that much wheat in one night with just a rope and a board. > > Why not cut the crop off and make the stems just “vanish”? Again, the kids couldn’t possibly cut and carry off enough wheat to make a fair-sized circle, in just one night- not short of a combine or harvester tractor, anyway. > > Why not burn it? The original “explanation” of circles, way back in the day, is they were the marks where the spacecraft’s landing legs squashed the grass. The designs eventually evolved so we’re now trying to say they’re signs or symbols in their own right. Burns, carefully focussed, could be said to be “rocket exhaust” or somthing- but again, the pranksters making the circles can’t do that, as it moves from the practical joking and into the wanton vandalism. Plus, it’s hard to hide a bonfire at night. > > If the aliens have the power to cross vast interstellar space, why not do something besides just squash plants? How about zapping them with something that severaly reduces certain plants’ growth, so the pattern shows only after they reach maturity? (Again, the simple answer is, the kids don’t know how to do that, or what chemicals to use.) > > Or the other way- zap 'em with something to significantly increases their growth. A ‘circle’ made from wheat three times taller than the surrounding wheat, for example. (Again, the answer here is that the kids making the circles can’t do that- if they could, they’d make fortunes as agricultural biochemists.) > > Why only cultivated crop fields? Why has no circle ever been seen on a large golf course? Or on the African savannah somewhere? No spacecraft has ever stomped a huge circle in a field of new-fallen snow, or melted one into a large glacier, or printed one in the snowfall on the side of Mt. Shasta. > > No circle has ever been burned into the tarmac of a Wal-Mart parking lot, or scuffed into the dunes of the Shahara Desert. > > Nope, none of that. They’re always relatively small-scale circles in some farmers’ grain crop. And there’s never any lingering traces of anything extraterrestrial- no cosmic equivalents of Mountain Dew cans. The circles are always something mere humans can do- just bent stalks. Nothing’s vanished, or been inexplicably altered, or shows any sign of being anything other than squashed by some guy with a board. > > If you have some contrary argument or explanation, **lekatt** , I’m more than willing to listen. But the facts of the matter are, at the point, that the chances that any “crop circle”, made anywhere to date, was a product of non-terrestrial beings or technology, are so vanishingly small we can quite reliably call it **completely impossible**. \*\* I have given you four books full of arguments and explanations by reseachers of the crop circles. You have not mentioned a single one of them indicating you haven’t read anything about the subject. Sorry I got involved. Just rollover and go back to sleep. Love ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/71 "2003-09-08T04:07:38Z")
Mentioning book titles is a far cry frrom presenting a cogent and thoughtful argument to back up your claims, something you have yet to do. From what I’ve seen so far, I don’t think you are capable of doing that, **lekatt**. Quoting titles fails to impress me. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/72 "2003-09-08T15:29:41Z")
No need to apologize for asking about a mystery… Contrary to the mantra of the debunkers: Just because some crop circles are indeed made by humans does not mean all crop circles are made by humans. I think it’s obvious why the New Agers have an interest in crop circles. What I would like to know is why the military also has an interest… ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/73 "2003-09-08T15:34:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*1. I’m more than willing to listen. > > 1. we can quite reliably call it **completely impossible**. \*\* 1 + 2 = 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/74 "2003-09-08T15:47:41Z")
The ["Hello Jupiter"](http://www.hellojupiter.com/inwebE/updatecom.html)site supplied by **Lekatt** earlier has this on its main page: > [@](#): > > First global mass telepathic transmission to circle maker beings on Jupiter’s moons …which supposedly happened in February 2003. Apparently they are still waiting for a reply thru the medium of crop circles (the aliens can receive telepathicly but not send?). OK, I can understand that. I don’t see much difference between these and the Heaven’s Gate crowd that was waiting for a spaceship, but I sorta understand what they are saying: crop circle makers come from one of Jupiter’s moons and want to communicate with us. But WTF can you make out of this from [the Latest News](http://www.hellojupiter.com/inwebE/latestnews.html) page: “The Geometrical Decoding of the Chilbolton-Crabwood-Riddle” other than to show the webmaster can use Photoshop? If there is a point, it is only at the peak of his shiny tinfoil hat. **Lekatt,** don’t you see how ROFLOL-ridiculous this kind of “proof” you are offering is to rational-logical minds? Hunh?? Hunh??? IF Jupiter has life on a moon and IF these beings are sufficiently advanced to travel here but remain invisible and IF they are making the crop circles and IF we are interpreting what they are saying correctly… This is pure speculation, fantasy, contrary to known facts and it relies on all IFs to be valid, none of which has been shown to be. Absolute nonsense. And quoting the entire post when replying isn’t helping our overburdened hamsters any – maybe you could be a bit more selective or reserved. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/75 "2003-09-08T16:02:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > No need to apologize for asking about a mystery… > Contrary to the mantra of the debunkers: Just because some crop circles are indeed made by humans does not mean all crop circles are made by humans. While this is true, it’d be nice to see some evidence that survives the “quick glance” test. All I’ve seen is endlessly repeated BS. If the truth is out there, surely the evidence to back it up is out there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/76 "2003-09-08T16:10:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Are you kidding me? Maybe in the whole universe, but not just our galaxy alone. Run your own numbers at [this site.](http://www.fellowship.net/jerrynixon/documents/theDrakeEquation.htm) > > Millions! That’s rich. \*\* The galaxy is indeed a rich place. > [@](#): > > \*\*In summarizing their discussions, the conference members concluded that the number of communicating planets could range from fewer than 1000 to more than a billion. Most of them thought the higher number a more likely estimate. \*\* [http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATES/seti/history/History07.htm](http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATES/seti/history/History07.htm) Drake himself currently estimates the number of currently extant communicating civilizations to be on the order of 10,000. **Doc,Musicat** , better people than us have had a go at **lekatt**. He has proven utterly impervious, not only to evidence, but to carbon-based logic. If I publish a book on on my purple dinosaur theory, I assume he’d champion that as well. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by lekatt_\*\* > Sorry I got involved. \*\* Us, too. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/77 "2003-09-08T16:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > Just because some crop circles are indeed made by humans does not mean all crop circles are made by humans. Quite true. But the fact that a couple-a ruddy farmers with nothing more than a few boards and some string can create elaborate circles that fool the expert cerealogists casts considerable doubt on the others. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/78 "2003-09-08T16:27:33Z")
Care to provide a valid cite showing the military’s interest in crop circles. Cites quoting something that happened 15+ years ago don’t count either. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/79 "2003-09-08T16:28:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*I have given you four books full of arguments and explanations by reseachers of the crop circles. You have not mentioned a single one of them indicating you haven’t read anything about the subject. Sorry I got involved. Just rollover and go back to sleep. > Love \*\* Why don’t you do us a favor and summarize the books for us, the evidence they present and what not. Frankly, I think you are citing books instead of websites because you are fully confident that very few of us will go out and read those books-therefore you can fall back to them and say “they provide 100 percent undeniable proof of aliens making crop circles” without having to defend your claim. So why don’t you either provide websites for us, or summarize the evidence Lekatt? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/80 "2003-09-08T16:34:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > **Drake himself currently estimates the number of currently extant communicating civilizations to be on the order of 10,000** With all due respect to Dr. Drake, his numbers are a bit liberal. His formula was developed in 1961 and the figures he plugged into the equation are now horribly outdated. [This](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0009CDEA-33FC-1C74-9B81809EC588EF21&pageNumber=1&catID=2)_Scientific American_ article from June, 2000 suggests there may be, at most 1000 currently extant civilizations in our galaxy, which means they are an average of about 1000 light-years apart. If some alien civilization is sending spaceships that take 1000 years to get here and another 1000 years to get home just to trample some wheat fields in pretty patterns, well they’re a lot stupider than we are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653.md?page=5)