# I apologise in advance: Crop Circles **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653 "2003-09-05T03:28:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/141 "2003-09-12T08:24:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > \*\*I hate to point out the obvious so many times, but just because some crop circles are fake does not mean all of them are fake. \*\* **I** hate to keep pointing out the obvious, but no one’s managed to provide the _least shred_ of evidence any of them _aren’t_ fake. If one assumes a “crop circle” is “real”, then that implies something like a UFO. The existence of a UFO implies extraterrestrials- space aliens. Aliens implies inhabited/spacefaring extrasolar races, which in turn implies faster-then-light technology. The fact we’ve never detected any such spacecraft either in flight out in the reaches or in the heavily-swept near-Earth environs implies that such craft would have to be invisible to detection via radio wave, RADAR, heat, audio or visible light. Then, assuming all that were in fact the case, one then has to assume some race capable of faster-than-light travel, zips around in a fully-cloaked starship to squash small geometric shapes in patches of cultivated crops. Oh sure. That makes _lots_ of sense. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/142 "2003-09-13T07:08:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\*1. **I** hate to keep pointing out the obvious, but no one’s managed to provide the _least shred_ of evidence any of them _aren’t_ fake. > > 1. If one assumes a “crop circle” is “real”, then that implies something like a UFO. The existence of a UFO implies extraterrestrials- space aliens. Aliens implies inhabited/spacefaring extrasolar races, which in turn implies faster-then-light technology. > > 2. The fact we’ve never detected any such spacecraft either in flight out in the reaches or in the heavily-swept near-Earth environs implies that such craft would have to be invisible to detection via radio wave, RADAR, heat, audio or visible light. > > 3. Then, assuming all that were in fact the case, one then has to assume some race capable of faster-than-light travel, zips around in a fully-cloaked starship to squash small geometric shapes in patches of cultivated crops. > > 4. Oh sure. That makes _lots_ of sense. \*\* 1. There’s plenty of evidence that something strange is going on. Why a few clowns want to mimic crop circles is beyond me though. 2. I don’t believe in aliens. 3. You confuse “fact” with “assertion”. And exactly who is this “we” you mention? Are you with an alphabet agency? 4. Some people would dispute your claim that these designs are “small”. 5. I hope you don’t mind a personal question: How do you happen to know so much about what make sense to “aliens”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/143 "2003-09-13T10:37:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > **1. There’s plenty of evidence that something strange is going on.** -Evidence? Such as…? (And no, telling me to go read somebody’s book is not an example of evidence.) > [@](#): > > \*\* Why a few clowns want to mimic crop circles is beyond me though.\*\* -“Mimic”? Again, that implies some circles are in fact “authentic”. What is an “authentic” circle, as opposed to one made by some clowns? > [@](#): > > **2. I don’t believe in aliens.** -But you believe in “crop circles”, at least some of them, and the prevailing “explanation” for them is they’re indicia made by extraterrestrials. Do you have an alternate explanation? > [@](#): > > **3. You confuse “fact” with “assertion”.** -Perhaps. Keep in mind you yourself are confusing circles made by kids with boards with “authentic” circles (although no one has yet to explain what an “authentic” circle is or how to tell it apart from a hoax.) > [@](#): > > \*\* And exactly who is this “we” you mention? Are you with an alphabet agency?\*\* -“We” is mankind in general. We have fleets of powerful telescopes, massive arrays of radio dishes, and hundreds of thousands of people scanning the skies around the clock. Some are looking for certain things, some are looking for whatever grabs their fancy. And none of them- NONE- have produced anything even remotely approaching verifiable evidence of extraterrestrial spacecraft, UFOs, or even just signals from an intelligent non-Earth source. > [@](#): > > **4. Some people would dispute your claim that these designs are “small”.** -Depends on your definition. All of them have been no larger than perhaps a dozen people could accomplish in an evening. Most of the videos showing them made seem to take less than an hour to make a single circle a hundred yards across. To repeat from before- if it was indeed some alien presence doing this, why not a circle a mile in diameter? There’s places in Kansas easily large enough to accomodate a geometric shape _several_ miles on a side. Surely a race capable of faster-than-light travel and with fully-cloaked ships could manage something either more geometrically complex than a _circle_ or something on a far larger scale. > [@](#): > > **5. I hope you don’t mind a personal question: How do you happen to know so much about what make sense to “aliens”?** -Mere assumption. One assumes that FTL travel is expensive in time, resources and energy, and that even an advanced race that has mastered it will not spend it frivolously. We’ve more or less mastered getting a simple craft into orbit- “simple” being it’s a mere orbiter, not an interstellar craft- and yet we don’t just trot on up whenever somebody feels like checking how weightlessness affects a can of _Mountain Dew_. One further assumes that, if intelligent life exists elsewhere, that it is rare, scattered, and unimaginible distances apart. One presumes then, that if a race happens across another fairly advanced race, that they would possibly attempt communication on some scale somewhat above stamping shapes in wheatgrass. _Radio_, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/144 "2003-09-13T11:15:14Z")
I noticed this thread, briefly, when it first started. I was mildly puzzled when it lasted as long as it did. And then…I realized…_it had to be **lekatt** _! The SDMB’s answer to “Howling Mad” Murdoch of the A-Team. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/145 "2003-09-13T14:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Musicat_ > > 1. But if ten observers claim to have been abducted, probed and flown to Venus by aliens from Mars in spaceships built on Zeta Reticuli, would you say this testimony is of the same caliber? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by GOM_ > > 1. No. Good. Then we agree that some observations are very likely to be true (no wild claims and no overturning of scientific laws) and others are very UNlikely to be true (pretty far-out claims). Then we only need find where the dividing line is. Somewhere between these extremes is a spot where I am doubtful but you are credulous. > [@](#): > > 1. Do you have a cite for this “hard solid” evidence? Professor David Jacobs has done years of study on this and he disagrees with your assertion. > > [http://www.temple.edu/history/jacobs.html](http://www.temple.edu/history/jacobs.html) I am not familiar with the good Professor, and your link gives only a short bio and 4 reference works. But we can tell a lot from those four. One of his published articles was in a MUFON journal (a long-time group of believers), another was in “The Occult in America,” and the third is titled “Secret Life: Firsthand Accounts of UFO Abductions,” hardly scientific-caliber, peer-reviewed quality works. The Prof says, “My primary teaching interests are in the history of popular culture.” So he’s a writer and historian, not an expert on memory or much of anything else we are talking about here. The evidence I am referring to is work by Loftus and others on how faulty memory can be and why it is unwise to take observations at full value (cites given elsewhere or do a Google). This is now mainstream psychology; I doubt Jacobs could be called mainstream if his main claim to fame is writing in UFO pubs. I’m not impressed. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/146 "2003-09-13T16:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*Then we agree that some observations are very likely to be true (no wild claims and no overturning of scientific laws) and others are very UNlikely to be true (pretty far-out claims). > \*\* At one time the wild claim that continents could move was thought by mainstream science to be very UNlikely. More study changed that opinion… Make sure you don’t automatically reject everything you do not yet understand. That’s where the debunkers fall flat. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/147 "2003-09-13T16:27:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*I noticed this thread, briefly, when it first started. > > I was mildly puzzled when it lasted as long as it did. > > And then…I realized…_it had to be **lekatt** _! > > The SDMB’s answer to “Howling Mad” Murdoch of the A-Team. \*\* What’s with another insult to lekatt??? Is this what you guys consider a “great” debate? If you think GOM = lekatt, you are mistaken. I’m a Christian from Southern CA. Also known as the JunkYardFrog on a few boards. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/148 "2003-09-13T16:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\* > > 1. -But you believe in “crop circles”, at least some of them, and the prevailing “explanation” for them is they’re indicia made by extraterrestrials. Do you have an alternate explanation? > 2. And none of them- NONE- have produced anything even remotely approaching verifiable evidence of extraterrestrial spacecraft, UFOs, or even just signals from an intelligent non-Earth source. > 3. Surely a race capable of faster-than-light travel and with fully-cloaked ships could manage something either more geometrically complex than a _circle_ or something on a far larger scale. > 4. One assumes that FTL travel is expensive in time, resources and energy, > 5. One further assumes that, if intelligent life exists elsewhere, that it is rare, scattered, and unimaginible distances apart. One presumes then, that if a race happens across another fairly advanced race, that they would possibly attempt communication on some scale somewhat above stamping shapes in wheatgrass. > > _Radio_, for example. \*\* 1. The military cannot be ruled out. 2. None that you know of. 3. Now you’ve gone beyond silly, and you know it. To complain about nothing more complex than a circle shows that you don’t care at all about the evidence. 4. Wow. We can agree on one point. 5. Again, your knowledge of “alien” thought patterns is remarkable. Maybe that’s a way of showing honor, in their culture. 😉 Besides, radio is essentially useless as a form of timely communication between star systems. The true believers in the alleged aliens say the form of communication being used is telepathy. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/149 "2003-09-13T18:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > At one time the wild claim that continents could move was thought by mainstream science to be very UNlikely. More study changed that opinion… OK, so where’s the evidence to back up YOUR assumptions? The evidence for continental plate movement gradually built up and became stronger. Theories were proposed and tested, some discarded, some confirmed. Is your evidence improving in quality? Are you getting more and better images of aliens/military/whatever that are producing crop circles? Have any predictions been made by theorists that were confirmed by further, reliable, unbiased study? Is there any more (good) evidence than there ever was? Show us! > [@](#): > > Make sure you don’t automatically reject everything you do not yet understand. That’s where the debunkers fall flat. Make sure you don’t automatically accept anything you do not yet understand. That’s where the newagers fall VERY flat. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/150 "2003-09-13T18:18:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > Besides, radio is essentially useless as a form of timely communication between star systems. The true believers in the alleged aliens say the form of communication being used is telepathy. You must believe it to see it. Radio is one HELLUVA lot more efficient than physical travel. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/151 "2003-09-14T03:24:31Z")
All of which reminds me of an old joke: Man One: Do you believe in adult baptism? Man Two: Believe in it? Hell, man, I’ve seen it done. The connection is that having seen, or at least having been credibly informed of, crop circles our friend chooses to think that their origin must be supernatural or extra-terrestrial. There is of course a thinking gap in the joke and in our friend’s approach. As with many silly arguments in these boards we are dealing with the most blatant sort of inductive reasoning. But, a little dishonesty never stopped a good fight around here before. Why should it now? ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/152 "2003-09-14T21:22:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > **1. The military cannot be ruled out.** -Sure it can. Please provide the _least_ shred of even _vaguely_ credible evidence that “the military” would have _any reason whatsoever_ to wander about the countryside squishing crops. If some “circles” are, for some wildly implausible reason, made by some bit of supersecret military hardware, why do they look _precisely_ the same as those made by a kid squashing the grass with a rope and a board? > [@](#): > > **2. None that you know of.** -Oh, but you do? _Please_. I’m sure you love to believe there are dozens of dark, secret conspiracies and hidden cabals out there, all of whom are keeping huge secrets from the population at large. Sorry, that don’t happen in astronomy. There’s hundreds of entirely seperate observatories and a thousand seperate groups all of whom are in a mild form of low-level conflict- each team (hell, each _person_) wants to be THE one to discover something important: a near-miss asteroid, perhaps, or “better” yet- for want of a better phrase- one that _would_ impact the earth. Being the first to spot an alien spacecraft or being the first to detect valid signs of an alien civilization would be a _HUGE_ boost to not only that person (additional funding, grants, assistants, more 'scope time, peer-reviewed journals, an offer of professorship, a seat on the board, book deals, you name it) but to whichever group or team he or she is on (again, more university funding, additional resources, increased media attention, grants and donations, even increased enrollment for that university, etc and so on.) THAT is the way the world _actually_ works, not “Hey, this is big! Let’s hide it and sit on this world-altering information so that later we can… I dunno, use it to make crop circles, or something.” > [@](#): > > **3. Now you’ve gone beyond silly, and you know it. To complain about nothing more complex than a circle shows that you don’t care at all about the evidence.** -And you’ve been silly for twenty posts now. My point is that all the ideograms are variations of a “circle”, a pattern _very_ easy for some kids with ropes and boards to do, as they simply put one kid in the center as the “point of the compass” and the rest just swing in the arc created by a rope anchored at that “point”. The same kids trying to make, say, an equilateral triangle, instead of just using one rope and a couple of boards, would then have to get out measuring tapes or a set of good GPS handhelds, and would have to tromp around in the wheat more, leaving more footprints and whatnot. The further point was that the circlesare typically simple- one or two or three circles, sometimes with a few smaller circles on the side, etc. If they were made by some supersecret military plane/spacecraft/ramjet/hover-bucket, why the variation in patterns? Hell, for that matter, why make pattersn at all? Doesn’t that kind of blow the whole “supersecret whatever” idea? If they were made by aliens, why simple pictograms? How are we supposed to “interpret” two circles connected with a line? Is it a barbell? Do we need to exercise more? If the “aliens” are trying to actually communicate… well, again, they’d be using radio, or audio or whatever- to say nothing of the idea they’d be doing so secretly, in cloaked, undetectable ships- but if they _were_ trying to communicate, they’d be using far more complex designs. > [@](#): > > **5. Again, your knowledge of “alien” thought patterns is remarkable. Maybe that’s a way of showing honor, in their culture. 😉** -We can see the Universe only through our own eyes. If _we_ happened across an intelligent alien race, we would undoubtedly attempt to communicate. Your insinuation, assuming “authentic” ones- which you still haven’t defined- are made by aliens and not “the military”, is that the circles are merely graffitti. The interstellar equivalent of “Xquatl Was Here”, or perhaps “I Claim This World- Terminus”. > [@](#): > > \*\*Besides, radio is essentially useless as a form of timely communication between star systems. The true believers in the alleged aliens say the form of communication being used is telepathy. \*\* -I see. Keep that tinfoil handy, mate. In any case, the point you missed here is that “something” is forming these circles and pictograms. You’ve insinuated two possible scenarios- “the military” and perhaps space aliens. If the aliens have actually come here- seems necessary in order to have physically squashed the grass- then the need for radio to traverse interstellar distances is wholly moot. Why not park in orbit and begin broadcasting? If they’ve come to the surface, why not land in some prominent location and _then_ start broadcasting? One assumes you can relate a great deal more data with a modulated radio frequency than one can with a circle tamped into a crop field. But hey, if it soothes your mind to think “the military” has nothing better to do than zip around in either stolen alien technology or multibillion-dollar fully-stealthed supersecret ramjet/hoverplanes and use 'em to make patterns in fields, more power to ya. But trying to argue that point on a board dedicated to _fighting_ ignorance, as opposed to promulgating it, is probably not your best bet. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/153 "2003-09-15T14:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > [B"I Claim This World- Terminus". > \*\* better get the Fantasti-car ready! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/154 "2003-09-15T18:29:18Z")
Actually, it was their long-range “Pogo-Plane”, as I recall. The Fantasticar was just for trotting around Manhattan. I was wondering if anyone would get that reference. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/155 "2003-09-15T19:38:06Z")
Dang… 'ya got me on dat one, youse from Yancy Street? _Impossible-Man smilie_…😛 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/156 "2003-09-15T21:04:22Z")
Not only are they aliens, but they’re NAZI aliens! [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=3445638](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=3445638) ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/157 "2003-09-16T15:58:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\*Not only are they aliens, but they’re NAZI aliens! > > [http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=3445638](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=3445638) \*\* hmmm Very very strange… “The hooks on the cross actually **pointed in the opposite direction to those on the swastika** used by Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party but it was still being treated as an illegal symbol.” Can’t think of it offhand, but there was a very similar symbol used by another culture sometime in the past. ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/158 "2003-09-16T16:06:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doc Nickel \* > \*\* > > 1. In any case, the point you missed here is that “something” is forming these circles and pictograms. > > 2. You’ve insinuated two possible scenarios- “the military” and perhaps space aliens. > > 3. But hey, if it soothes your mind to think “the military” has nothing better to do than zip around in either stolen alien technology or multibillion-dollar fully-stealthed supersecret ramjet/hoverplanes and use 'em to make patterns in fields, more power to ya. > > \*\* 1. No. Nobody missed any point. Even you can’t deny that crop circles are being formed. You happen to believe they are **all** created by people with way too much time on their hands stomping around in crops in the middle of the night. The evidence does not support your belief. 2. As I already said, I don’t believe in the alleged “aliens”. 3. Perhaps you can explain military “intelligence” better than I can. However, I never suggested the two “solutions” you attribute to me. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/159 "2003-09-16T16:17:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > **1. No. Nobody missed any point. Even you can’t deny that crop circles are being formed. You happen to believe they are all created by people with way too much time on their hands stomping around in crops in the middle of the night. The evidence does not support your belief.** How does it not support this belief? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by GOM \* > **2. As I already said, I don’t believe in the alleged “aliens”.** I think you might have mentioned this a while ago, but my memory stinks, can you please refresh it? Are you making a suggestion as to what makes the circles-or are you just saying that there has to be another explanation? ---
**Author:** ![GOM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@GOM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GOM)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653/160 "2003-09-16T16:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Musicat \* > \*\*1. You must believe it to see it. > > 1. Radio is one HELLUVA lot more efficient than physical travel. \*\* 1. Not sure what you refer to here… 2. Depends on what type of physical travel. The alleged aliens are supposed to have “evolved” millions of years longer than humans, so their technology will make them appear like God to us. Radio is very limited when it comes to **effective** communication between even the very closest stars. “Hello! This is Earth calling. Anybody out there?” ::::many years later:::: “Yes. Come join the Galactic Federation! Admission to the club has been lowered to only 9,000,000,000,000 klorpflecks per planet. How many planets have been colonized in your star system?” ::::many years later:::: “Thanks! We have only one planet. What’s the exchange rate for klorpflecks to dollars?” And so on… Effective radio communication throughout the universe would be even more painful than that short sequence. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-apologise-in-advance-crop-circles/199653.md?page=9)