# I applaud the consistency of climate skeptics this hot summer **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597 "2010-08-08T12:42:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/21 "2010-08-08T21:33:11Z")
> [@iophobon](#): > > I don’t understand how people discredit the idea that a very cold winter is evidence for a lack of global warming and then in the next sentence go on to say hot weather clearly supports it. I’m saying that to be consistent, the people claiming that a very cold winter disproves global warming should be the ones saying that hot weather clearly supports it. I’m not saying it, the knee-jerk disbelievers should be. Or maybe they are using a temporary phenomenon as evidence only when it suits their preconceptions and political goals? Couldn’t be **that**. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/22 "2010-08-08T21:51:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > As it was mentioned many times before weather is not climate, and regional effects are not global. Right now La Nina is affecting the South American region. > > > > [7,000-Year-Old Human Remains Found in Peruvian Andes | Traveling and Living in Peru](http://www.livinginperu.com/news/12579) > > That’s exactly my point and, mockingly, the OP’s. > If AGW is true/false, it doesn’t depend on a hot/cold/rainy/wet/windy/calm couple of months. Fair enough, but stop referring to the 97% of climate researchers as warmists. Proponents have the science to support their points, even skeptics that are scientists are beginning to run afoul of deniers when they state the obvious to the people that used to love them: [http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/08/engelbeen\_on\_co2.php](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/08/engelbeen_on_co2.php) > [@](#): > > Anthony Watts has guest post by Ferdinand Engelbeen (the guy Plimer plagiarised) explaining how we know that the increase in CO2 is not natural. Good on Watts for putting some accurate science on his blog. Mind you, the comments include folks like Richard Courtney arguing against it. > [@](#): > > I’ve noticed that lately guys like Roy Spencer have been spending a lot of time trying to establish some kind of minimum level for what is unquestionably true about AGW. It seems as if some of the more serious skeptics are beginning to worry that their whole cause will degenerate into another anti-science conspiracy theory that isn’t taken serious outside a small circle of believers In the case of Spencer IIRC he posted an article in a denier blog explaining that human CO2 indeed was causing warming, talk about eating their own, suffice to say deniers are not happy when they realize that the few skeptical scientists that are left are not really in favor of all the stupid denier talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/23 "2010-08-09T02:44:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Fair enough, but stop referring to the 97% of climate researchers as warmists. Proponents have the science to support their points, even skeptics that are scientists are beginning to run afoul of deniers when they state the obvious to the people that used to love them: > > [http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/08/engelbeen\_on\_co2.php](http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2010/08/engelbeen_on_co2.php) > > > [@](#): > > > > I’ve noticed that lately guys like Roy Spencer have been spending a lot of time trying to establish some kind of minimum level for what is unquestionably true about AGW. It seems as if some of the more serious skeptics are beginning to worry that their whole cause will degenerate into another anti-science conspiracy theory that isn’t taken serious outside a small circle of believers > > In the case of Spencer IIRC he posted an article in a denier blog explaining that human CO2 indeed was causing warming, talk about eating their own, suffice to say deniers are not happy when they realize that the few skeptical scientists that are left are not really in favor of all the stupid denier talking points. By “warmists” I didn’t mean just sicentists, but all people who beleive it without a real grasp of the data, because let’s face it (regardless of the truth/falsity of AGW) most people who talk about it have no real scientific clue. Only idiots deny that humans have caused an increase in CO2 levels and that increased level of CO2 ought to put some warming “pressure” into the climate system. In the same way, only idiots talk about sea levels increasing into tens of meters or 8°C increases in 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/24 "2010-08-09T03:01:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > By “warmists” I didn’t mean just sicentists,. I see, so even the 97% who are deserve that moniker… No one can take you seriously. In the previous discussions you really could fool many by the sources you brought and positions you took back then. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/25 "2010-08-09T03:46:24Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > [ > Only idiots deny that humans have caused an increase in CO2 levels and that increased level of CO2 ought to put some warming “pressure” into the climate system. In the same way, only idiots talk about sea levels increasing into tens of meters or 8°C increases in 100 years. OK then. If any idiots post stupid stuff like that here, then feel free to have at them! Since they have not (in this thread) then cool off man! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/26 "2010-08-09T04:02:24Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > In the same way, only idiots talk about sea levels increasing into tens of meters or 8°C increases in 100 years. Maybe, but according to [these guys](http://globalchange.mit.edu/pubs/abstract.php?publication_id=990) there is a decent probability it will be \>7 degrees C in 100 years. I kind of doubt they are idiots, YMMV. Oh, btw (on edit), I am not one of those idiots, please don’t “have at me” like **Euphonious Polemic** suggested. I’m just saying is all… ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/27 "2010-08-09T04:42:01Z")
You can only get 7° by assuming absurdly high forcings and multipliers, but I really don’t to debate AGW here, I’d rather have rats chew at my balls; let’s go back to the OP. I agree that some sceptics take every cold-wave as an opportunity without realising it weakens their overall arguments. Those sceptics are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/28 "2010-08-09T05:08:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And you “enjoyed the low 90’s”, so you hope for more? Are you also looking forward to drought in California, and the subsequent rise in food prices? That will be fun, eh? One of the biggest impacts of global climate change will be the impact on water resources and food growing. It’s been cold in the SF Bay Area this summer and Northern CA had good precipitation this year. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/29 "2010-08-09T05:19:09Z")
Ice core samples clearly demonstrate the weather for a long ,long time. It is not a guess what the weather used to be. It is not about snow in Texas one time. We know well the weather is warming up. Local cold spells and hot spells don’t give much info about trends in the weather but the worlds warmest July ever recorded can not be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/30 "2010-08-09T06:18:29Z")
[quote=“Euphonious\_Polemic, post:10, topic:549597”] > [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > … > And you “enjoyed the low 90’s”, so you hope for more? Are you also looking forward to drought in California, and the subsequent rise in food prices? That will be fun, eh? One of the biggest impacts of global climate change will be the impact on water resources and food growing. The way I hear it, we will have a significant increase in “water resources” due to melting of glaciers and polar ice caps. Folks on the coasts will will have so much more water available they’'ll be swimming in it. Or rumor has it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/31 "2010-08-09T07:48:40Z")
How are these global avergae temperatures computed? Argentina is having its coldest winter in 200 years, and there have been hundreds of deaths in Peru from the cold. The southern hemisphere seems to be cooling…why would that be? How do the global warming people account for the distortions in temperature caused by environmental alterations (e.g. farmlands replaced by buildings and blacktop roads)? Or the local wind patterns changing because of landscape alteration? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/32 "2010-08-09T08:07:31Z")
I’m sure it’s more complex than this, but they basically take temperatures many locations (dozens or hundreds or thousands, I dunno) at the same time, and avergage them to an “earth” tempurature. There must be some kinds of adjustments for lack of past data. I’m sure it is possible to gather far more temperature readings from far more places today than it was 50 years ago. The also have core samples from glaciers and the polar ice caps that provide very accurate data (on a limited set of data types) going back thousands of years. How they draw the conclusions they do from the data they have is beyond my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/33 "2010-08-09T09:25:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The way I hear it, we will have a significant increase in “water resources” due to melting of glaciers and polar ice caps. Folks on the coasts will will have so much more water available they’'ll be swimming in it. I see what you did there. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/34 "2010-08-09T10:57:56Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How are these global avergae temperatures computed? Argentina is having its coldest winter in 200 years, and there have been hundreds of deaths in Peru from the cold. > The southern hemisphere seems to be cooling..why would that be? > How do the global warming people account for the distortions in temperature caused by environmental alterations (e.g. farmlands replaced by buildings and blacktop roads)? Or the local wind patterns changing because of landscape alteration? Did you read the thread? You know, the thread about how a short-term trend can’t be uncritically extrapolated indefinitely into the future? The very thread you’re in now? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/35 "2010-08-09T12:15:48Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How are these global avergae temperatures computed? Argentina is having its coldest winter in 200 years, and there have been hundreds of deaths in Peru from the cold. > The southern hemisphere seems to be cooling..why would that be? Because it’s WINTER there, right now. Of course it’s going to be cooling there. That’s kinda the whole point of winter. However, and here’s the important part- _even with_ the cold weather they’re experiencing right now, this is the hottest \*\*global \*\*average year we’ve ever seen. Their cold weather does not balance out the hot weather everyone else is seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/36 "2010-08-09T12:33:04Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > However, and here’s the important part- _even with_ the cold weather they’re experiencing right now, this is the hottest \*\*global \*\*average year we’ve ever seen. Their cold weather does not balance out the hot weather everyone else is seeing. I was wondering that myself. All things being equal, the East Coast hotness could make a significant difference by itself if not balanced out by other places! Is there evidence this is the hottest year yet so far? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/37 "2010-08-09T13:23:30Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > How do the global warming people account for the distortions in temperature caused by environmental alterations (e.g. farmlands replaced by buildings and blacktop roads)? Or the local wind patterns changing because of landscape alteration? Whaddaya mean “account for”? That’s part of the problem, just like C02 emissions are part of the problem – it’s all anthropogenic climate change. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/38 "2010-08-09T16:26:59Z")
Look, the climate deniers haven’t had time to check the weather forecast lately, okay? They’ve been busy. You know, wife went back to school, gotta drop the kids off at Boy Scouts, prepping for fantasy football season, etc. They’ll totally get back to you, they promise. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/39 "2010-08-09T16:29:19Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > And you “enjoyed the low 90’s”, so you hope for more? Are you also looking forward to drought in California, and the subsequent rise in food prices? That will be fun, eh? One of the biggest impacts of global climate change will be the impact on water resources and food growing. > > It’s been cold in the SF Bay Area this summer and Northern CA had good precipitation this year. Congratulations on your good luck with your **SHORT TERM WEATHER** this year. Too bad the **LONG TERM CLIMATE** of your area is going to be changing to be dryer and warmer. Assuming this is not a whoosh, I am amused by the people who are stepping in to prove the OP’s assertion that climate change deniers have no concept of the difference between seasonal local weather patterns and long term global climate change. ---
**Author:** ![Shadowfyre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfyre/32/9972_2.png) [@Shadowfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shadowfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597/40 "2010-08-09T20:19:52Z")
Maybe I’m missing some sarcasm, but think most people accept global warming, but the main debate is “weather” it is due to people or just a natural cycle. Venturing into GQ area here: As far as weird color sunrises and sunsets, the Chicago area has been having orange sunrises and sunsets… quite shockingly orange. [This link](http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com/2010/08/canadian-wildfires-behind-chicagos-brilliant-orange-sunrises-sunsets-of-late.html) (picture included) from the Chicago Tribune says that the orange sunrises are due to Canadian wildfires. Chicago is also experiencing its [15th warmest summer](http://blog.chicagoweathercenter.com/2010/08/chicagos-15th-warmest-summer-of-the-past-140-years-to-turn-hotter-first-90s-in-16-days-predicted-sun.html) and one of its wettest summers as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-applaud-the-consistency-of-climate-skeptics-this-hot-summer/549597.md?page=3)