Care to cite it?
And I have now clarified why. If you think her otherwise, you are entitled.
No conspiracy necessary. I’ve described what happened. Plaintiff’s counsel knew exactly what he was doing, and he definitely is an evil sonofabitch that doesn’t know how to open his mouth without a lie falling out.
The judge was careless and ego driven. Not really hard to believe in a judge.
And the receiver IS a thief - now that I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing one firsthand, I no longer wonder why most people familiar with them assume ALL receivers are thieves. They are professional foxes being invited into henhouses, it is a genuine travesty how the whole business of receivership is handled, which is to say, not at all.
But that’s down the road…
Not at all. I interpret it the way all the reviewing courts have, as well as the trial court in most the cases. It is the judge in this case who is going against the weight of authority and opinion about how it should be interpreted, not me.
By the way, you realize the statute is here in this thread to read, right? Post #18.
Honestly no as you scare the shit out of me. I believe that your zeal will cause you to lash out at anyone, and I don’t even want to come close to giving legal advice.
You are worse than a first year law student who just learned the basics of contract law. I certainly don’t want you to lose your house or business, but I think you should brace yourself for the very real possibility that you will lose the appeal.
These are the parts I think can make it confusing, if you’re looking for it to be:
All that decreeing and time limiting and so forth.
It definitely could be better written. (See Dickson v. Rehmke for the struggles of the court to parse the meaning of exactly what and when appeals occur).
But if you parse it carefully, you have to tease apart the difference between the proceeding to seek the dissolution, and proceedings to dissolve. They are different. Courts have actually ruled against dissolution - it’s not automatic. Evidence, testimony… thumbs up or down. That’s the seeking. If it’s thumbs down, the actual dissolution and winding up, it’s proceedings to dissolve.
Look at the first paragraph quoted: the court stays the proceeding to either to dissolve or to seek, could be either. In the third paragraph, the addition of the word “winding up” indicates we are referring to actual dissolution, not a court action to get an order for it.
But nowhere in there is there any indication that one must act before a judge has considered all the evidence and decided whether or not a dissolution is warranted at all.
Also, absolutely no one has addressed the actual judgment, vs. the ruling on the hearing, vs. the conversation in the courtroom day 3.
Day 3 of trial: My lawyer is comparing again, using the election of a board of directors in a corporation. The judge says no, I will be making that call. Right there she’s acknowledging that buyout follows decree, or can at least.
Next Day Judge says at first: Stoid can buy out Plaintiff under the law…
Then Judge says: Oh okay, we’ll just skip that and sell the assets because you asked and it sounds good. So she says she is not going to permit me to elect to buy him out right after she says she will, and she doesn’t give any explanation. She certainly doesn’t explain it by saying I’m too late, nor does The Evil Lawyer suggest I’m too late. He argues that the law sucks, do it his way. Time is not a factor anywhere.
Then she enters the judgment (finally) in which she says that UNDER 17351 I can buy my own member interest. Which makes no sense of any kind, especially since she says that my ex can also bid on the assets. MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
I make my election after a bunch of other stuff, and she rules I was supposed to make it before the point she was discussing it in open court and talking about how I could/would make it after the judgment she would make. And that was itself before her verdict where she was perfectly clear and ready to have me proceed on the buyout following judgment and only changed her mind because… well, for no apparent reason.
And by the way, I was asking to be allowed to buy him out in the motions filed before her judgment was entered. BEFORE THE JUDGMENT WAS ENTERED.
Seriously, how does anyone see any potential for affirmance in this? How does anyone see any logic, reason, justice or legitimacy in this? She was all over the map, there’s nothing to affirm!
If the judgment is to be affirmed, it’s going to be the words in the judgment itself, right? “Stoid can purchase her own member interest while her ex can also buy the assets” - is anyone going to take a shot at what that means? Because it doesn’t mean anything at all.
Which I think is why y’all are doing what the judge did: going with something that at least seems plausible: too late. But since that was five months after she decided to blow me off, I think it’s a pretty skanky way to go.
Easy to say, impossible to prove. I have never lashed out at a soul. Defendant, remember?
So many folks keep telling me, and a few reasonable and decent souls have actually offered some reasons why it’s possible, but only by assuming in every single instance that there simply must be something Im missing.
Because now that it’s all out here…and if by some amazing chance I’m correct and this really is all the pertinent information…it’s pretty obvious that it really was a clusterfuck that’s pretty hard to believe.
But shit happens, ya know?
By the way… actually citing the case you claimed exists to prove that I have no idea what I’m talking about is “legal advice”? Damn. Who knew?
You’re probably right. But here’s what I wrote to describe what i posted here about the verdict.
It’s positively hysterical.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The rules of appellate review and statutory interpretaion… it’s* de novo* (I love the Latin… favorite: sua sponte) For those in the gallery: it means when there is an issue of statutory interpretation, the reviewing court doesn’t consider what the trial court thought or said or reasoned at all. They look at the law itself and decide what it means, as though no one had ever ruled anything at all.
So that’s what they will do re 17351. They won’t discard prior appellate decisions, of course, just the rulings and reasoning of my particular judge.
So it’s conceivable they will come up with some brand new, previously unconsidered way to make it acceptable for the judge in my case to have denied me my right to buyout, even if it doesn’t seem to have the slightest thing to do with anything that occurred in my case. If that’s what they believe is right…
Sorry if I missed it, but approximately when can you expect a result?
And good luck.
I started to write a post to you earlier this evening that suggested you forget about the cases and just read the plain language of section 17351, which I do not find at all confusing.
Then I read your post that included the statements quoted here. What you have said about section 17351 is either totally wrong or completely nonsensical, or both.
This is why you need a lawyer.
Well, I don’t need a lawyer anymore, it’s submitted, so now it’s all academic.
I’m very willing to be enlightened, I honestly am. Forget what I said. What do you say? What is it in the statute that actually mandates, or rather restricts, the time in which the election can be made? Particularly in light of decisions ruling that the time limit to act is “any time prior to liquidation”. Because if it’s there, it’s good for me to see it now in case the appellate court sees it too and smacks me with it, I’ll be braced. And I’m being completely sincere in saying that.
Lots of folks here have said “you don’t get it” but it’s rare for anyone to endeavor to explain exactly how I have it wrong. I’m more than open to that, I welcome it.
So, if you will, parse it for me and show me what I’m missing. Again, in light of decisional law. It is a sincere request, respectfully made.
Technically they can take up to three months, but I researched it and they are likely to have the opinion within three weeks.
And thank you, very much.
I think Brickerhas this exactly right. Look, it happens all the time that the judge gets it wrong. Judge’s are busy, and they frequently don’t have much time to spend on an issue. They have lots of discretion. They are human beings and they are subject to biases. Every litigator knows this and every litigator can tell you stories where the facts and the law were clearly on our side, but we lost anyway. And every litigator knows that is going to happen in a system that is made up of fallible human beings.
But here’s what every litigator does NOT do: what they do NOT do is say that the other lawyer was evil and spewed lies, and that the judge completely ignored the law and didn’t care and just did whatever she wanted.
Here’s how, in my experience anyway, a typical litigators account of an adverse ruling : “well, we wanted the names of several of the witnesses, and the other side refused, and made up some ridiculous argument about giving their names would violate the witnesses right to privacy. So, we briefed it, and we presented the judge with about 10 cases where exactly that argument was refused, and she issued a 10 line order denying the discovery.”
And then you move on. It’s a like a bad call in a basketball game. Is it possible that the ref was bribed, or has it in for you, and that the other side is like some kind of sindely whiplash character from a cartoon who is inherently evil?
Yeah, I guess, but you know what is more likely, like 10,000 times more likely? That, at worst, the ref just made a bad call. And so you protest the call. And if you lose the protest, then you get on with the game.
What sets off alarm bells about Stoid, in this thread and in previous threads I’ve read about this case, is that there are no close calls and there are no honest differences of opinion or even mistakes. There are just people against her who are liars or cheats or thieves or evil, and there is a judge how ignored every relevant legal authority and blatantly railroaded her.
When she asked a question about the law, it became very clear to all of us lawyers that her question was completely out of left field, and framed in a way
that suggested that she was completely missing the point. It was like someone coming up and asking an automechanic, “hey when your battery is dead, and you want to get it to restart and you decided to use explosives, do you know if anyone has ever inserted TNT into one of the cylinders to set off an explosion in the chamber?” And all the lawyers said, whoa whoa whoa, what are you talking about? And she just got really angrier and angrier and starting posting uber long post after uber long post.
And then we hear about the hearing before the Court of Appeal. Where the judges don’t ask a single question, and where the other side does not offer any argument.
And all of this adds up, for me, and for the other litigators who have been following this, to the conclusion that
- Stoid honestly believes that she was railroaded
- I, for one, am sympathetic to that feeling, because I have felt it myself many times in my life, and I don’t doubt her sincerity
- At the same time, Stoid is mistaken about her legal position. From skimming this thread, it looks to me like she missed a deadline.
- That this is a prime example of why we need to courts to be very strict about enforcing deadlines. That Stoid is like many other litigants that I’ve seen (usually but no always, pro se) who simply never yield a point. No matter what. And the courts MUST be strict with these folks, because otherwise no lawsuit would ever end because no matter what, the party will come back with a lengthy explanation of why everyone else has it wrong.
She told you this in her post in page one.
You are now still trying to bring in section 2000 to make your point. I would say forget about section 2000, forget about the cases about section 2000, forget about the cases saying 2000 is a parallel provision. You can argue for days that the court should apply the case law interpretation of section 2000, and still lose because the plain language of statute 17351 will trump this case law. Which is why Merejean suggested go back and read the plain language of 17351 and forget about the case law.
This is why I was confused in my original posts about whether your case was under 17351 or 2000. You keep saying your judge went against the law, and what I think you mean is that she didn’t follow 2000. Well, of course she didn’t, she was ruling under 17351. And from what I glean from the very scattered nature of your posts and my brief review of 17351, she was correct under 17351.
And there is no call to go “Oy vey” at me. I really have expended some effort in trying to understand you and your situation. The only thing I haven’t done is go to Findlaw or similar and do my own research…so the only thing I have to go on is your posts. BlondJeanie said she didn’t want to say anything because you may lash out…you may wish to consider not lashing out at people who haven’t been lashing out at you.
Just a thought…when will you hear about the judgment?
You shouldn’t skim. Skimming makes you guess from imperfect and incomplete facts. What you did was check what the (alleged) lawyers said and decided they were right, because they are (allegedly) lawyers.
And what did they say? Some thought that the timing issue might be right, because the language of the law refers to timing in the decree that follows valuation.
(And that’s actually a more specific description than most of them gave)
The only statutory law, case law, or information about what actually happened, in the form of transcripts of the evidence itself, has come from me. So why would the vague speculations with absolutely no analysis or support be more true? Well, I know why… because they are (allegedly) lawyers. Ipso facto.
How about skimming by font size? In response to the continued speculation that there’s something special about the post-judgment elections to buyout that I’m missing, there just has to be, I’m now posting the entire cases. I’m just putting the irrelevant parts in a tiny font but its there for anyone to read and identify those key things I’m missing.
Cuz ya know, just saying it over and over without ever once showing that it’s true is getting pretty meaningless.
Stumpf!
cont. next post
Do you want to touch my monkey? Textures fascinate me.
Voluntary election, judicial decree: both lead to dissolution itself, not merely the possibility.
So, since 2000 and 17351 have been determined to be analogous by the courts, what is the argument that LLCs have a special requirement that corporations do not, making buyout elections available only before judgment, when in corporations law there is no such restriction?
I’m all ears. But only if you make some attempt to argue as I have done, as the court itself will do, with legal authorities, not merely your own naked opinion of how someone might interpret something, pulled out of your pocket. (Remember, the only judicial opinion that the election must be made before judgment came from MY judge. ALl other opinions that in any manner whatsoever address the question even peripherally or incidentally say otherwise.)
Because after all, that’s not how the appellate court arrives at their decisions. They don’t just come up with brand new ways to interpret laws out thin air after they discuss it among themselves. They look to other courts’ decisions about the same or simliar laws in this or other jurisdictions, as well as treatises and published analysis by legal scholars, in a descending hierarchy of value.
I think it’s only fair for anyone who wants to tell me I’m clueless to do the same.
Well, we could, but that’s just masturbation. Fun, but meaningless… See my prior post.
And now see CASE LAW!
ON 17351!
YAY! (Not directly onthe timing issue. I’m responding to you telling me (it appears) that it’s more valid to forget all about that silly comparison stuff and just battle our personal opinions.
Weak! Very weak. Especially since I’m not qualified, remember. MUCH better to listen to EXPERTS…
So. Would you like to argue to me some more that it’s just silly and pointless for me to imagine that the court will look to corporations decisions for the answers to the questions, and that it is somehow more meaningful and legitimate to discuss our personal opinions of what 17351 means?