# I ban universe-threatening/saving McGuffins--what plot devices do \*you\* want to ban? OPEN SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895 "2014-08-05T20:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/21 "2014-08-06T02:12:41Z")
I got about three sentences into the OP and realized there was an excellent chance there’d be a _Guardians of the Galaxy_ spoiler somewhere along the way, so I’ll leave the thread until after I’ve seen the movie, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/22 "2014-08-06T02:13:33Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Macguffins work best when they motivate and enhance internal conflict. Pulp Fiction was about a group of characters navigating an uncertain landscape. This is a good example for your argument, as it was a kind of false McGuffin intentionally kept mysterious. A subversion of the trope, if you will. > [@](#): > > The Avengers was about previously independent characters learning to work together. Guardians of the Galaxy was about filling the void of family and learning to trust again. I don’t buy these, however. There is an opportunity to have the villains do interesting things. In both cases (Loki and Ronan), the villains are themselves interesting characters who end up doing some pretty generic villain stuff. The McGuffins in both cases are their boring weapons. Missed opportunity. The Orb in GotG was functioning as an interesting object and plot driver until we actually find out what it is, which turns out to be a boringly all-powerful object. > [@](#): > > In all of those cases, the macguffin is purely there to set up the central conflict. Any more detail furnished upon the macguffin would have distracted from the story. . Pulp Fiction, yes, the other two, no. In the other two, there is plenty of dumb sci-fi detail pasted on. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/23 "2014-08-06T02:15:29Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > no one who is within a few weeks of her due date gets on an airplane, cross-country train, or hot-air balloon. Oooh, some do, you betcha. I can see Roosha from my cervix! ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/24 "2014-08-06T02:50:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Woman who does not understand husband very important job is more important than spending time with her. There’s a new TV show called _The Strain_. Don’t watch it. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/25 "2014-08-06T03:56:13Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Oooh, some do, you betcha. I can see Roosha from my cervix! She is not a good example of anything. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/26 "2014-08-06T05:20:41Z")
“The Human/Alien hybrid with magical powers” who always chooses the human race. Why is it that if you screw(or get screwed by) another species, the offspring always has magical powers neither parent species has? Exception: Lizard baby from V. He got the short end of the stick, and died of the magic mutant virus. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/27 "2014-08-06T05:30:46Z")
> [@dogbutler](#): > > “The Human/Alien hybrid with magical powers” who always chooses the human race. Why is it that if you screw(or get screwed by) another species, the offspring always has magical powers neither parent species has? Exception: Lizard baby from V. He got the short end of the stick, and died of the magic mutant virus. In Ben 10: Alien Force they actually tried to explain this. It was silly. Basically, all species have some “superpower” that makes them unique. Humanity’s superpower is that we’re genetically malleable enough to crossbreed with any alien race and have our offspring get their superpowers. The lamest of all superpowers. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/28 "2014-08-06T17:40:17Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > You’re right that it’s often deployed poorly because screenwriters have a mistaken impression that the “stakes” of a movie depend on the objective magnitude. In reality, the destruction of a planet can have less impact than the niggling doubt that your wife might be cheating on you or the betrayal of a best friend because the only stakes that matter are the stakes that matter to the characters. Along those lines, there’s what I’ll call the “when you take something from another medium and turn it into a movie, why must you escalate the stakes to the heavens?” disease. One example: the made-for-TV movie of _A Wrinkle in Time_. Meg Murry can’t just rescue her kid brother, she’s got to save the whole damned planet of Camazotz. Another: _Serenity_. Mal & Co. save the 'verse from whatever it is that caused the Reavers to be Reavers. And it’s not just a recent thing. _Howard the Duck_ suffered from the same disease, although it would have taken a lot more than avoiding that particular misstep to save that godawful movie. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/29 "2014-08-06T18:00:57Z")
With the Chosen One and the whole quest-style ‘fetch artifact X and put in slot Y to thwart evil plan’ storytelling, this thread has already covered two of my three biggest pet peeves, with the third being the ‘off switch’. Generic plot: villain has amassed some unstoppable army/machine of destruction/irresistible power, which will obliterate everything in its path, except—there’s a one in a million shot (itself as a trope a lesser offender), often taken by a conveniently placed Chosen One, that disables the whole scheme instantly. The two examples that spring to mind most readily are the death star (of course), and the droid army from the prequels that shuts down entirely once you take out the command ship. In both cases, there is absolutely no reason for such a weakness to be built in, and it’s a transparent device for the hero to overcome insurmountable odds—even though they don’t actually overcome, but more like sidestep them. It always seems like a cheap exit from a corner the writer’s gotten themselves into—you’ve raised the opposition so far beyond any reasonable measure in order to keep increasing the tension that there’s just no real way for the hero to persevere, so you just put a big red button onto the bad guy’s desk with a convenient label ‘to foil plan, press here’. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/30 "2014-08-06T18:16:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > “The Chosen One”. Seriously, this is the lamest plot device ever. Yeah, the reason the protagonist is part of the story is because they were chosen by the author to resolve the situation. In real life there is no such thing as prophecy, no such things as chosen ones. > > A Chosen One on a quest to retrieve a McGuffin is lame squared. They did a nice take on this in _Elektra._ She was built up throughout the movie to be the Chosen One, and it was actually this kid instead. Who had already completed her quest to find her McGuffin and was mostly just waiting for the bad guys to catch up to her so she could kill them all, which was kinda funny. > [@bienville](#): > > Oooh, some do, you betcha. I can see Roosha from my cervix! > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > She is not a good example of anything. Well, she needs to be banned… I nominate the Unstoppable Bad Guy. Guardians of the Galaxy, Bloodsport, most Van Damme/Sagal movies… movies where the bad guy is just off-the-wall tough, and nothing can touch him, until he fights Our Hero… and loses. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/31 "2014-08-06T18:29:04Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > There used to be a lot of movies where the plot was to “get the disk” Well they don’t do that any more … now it’s “get the flash memory stick.” So there! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/32 "2014-08-06T18:40:57Z")
I want to ban all [Unresolved Sexual Tension](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnresolvedSexualTension). It’s been overused. Do it or forget it. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/33 "2014-08-06T18:58:55Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Police officers who are accused of misconduct investigating their own actions. That would never happen in real life. Except it is the rule, not the exception. Or cops/FBI men investigating crimes involving their families or loved ones. God, is there ever a serial killer who’s NOT targeting one of the BAU’s relatives on _ **Criminal Minds** _? There’s no way an FBI agent whose sister or cousin or girlfriend had been kidnapped or murdered would be allowed to investigate that case or interrogate a suspect… but it happens practically every week on _ **Criminal Minds** _, and in dozens of movies. - Morgan’s sister is being held hostage by a serial killer. Morgan: Hotch, I have to interrogate this guy. Let me go in there. Hotchner: No way. You’re too close. Morgan: But I know this guy, I know how he thinks. I can help. Hotchner: Okay. But if I see you acting too emotionally, I’ll have to replace you.\* ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/34 "2014-08-06T19:07:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 1. “Dad is an asshole for working too much and not spending time with the kids.” :rolleyes: Hey, family, where do you think the house, cars, baseball games, vacations, etc are coming from in your one-earner household? I don’t see people in movies complaining “I hate this big house and our fabulous pool and that neat ATV you bought me for Christmas”, no it’s crap like “Oh, Dad couldn’t see my baseball game because he was out working for the money that allows me to play baseball - the bastard!” “I’m sorry, Joey. Let’s discuss why Dad is an asshole in our $50k SUV while we drive to our $750k house in the burbs.” This meme always reminds me of one of football coach/commentator John Madden’s best stories. After the stressful 1979 season (during which Darrell Stingley was paralyzed during a collision with the Raiders’ Jack Tatum), Madden was feeling burned out in football, and started thinking how wonderful it would be to spend a lot more time with his wife and family, who probably missed himn terribly. After all, he was always on the road or watching game film or running practices during football season. Surely, it was time for some family togetherness! So, he retired. And in short order, he came to realize… his family was USED to him being gone for months at a time. They weren’t sitting around at home weeping for Dad. Mrs. Madden had a job, and was gone all day. Madsen’s kids were at school all day, and after school, they wanted to hang out with THEIR friends, not with their Dad! In short, Madden found that his family never particularly missed him, and he was alone watching TV all day for a few months. So, when CBS called and asked if he’d be interested in doing some TV commentary, he said, “YESS!!! PLEASE!!! ANYTHING to get me out of here!!!” Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure many kids DO wish their parents were around more. But many more just adjust, and don’t think Dad’s absences are all that unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/35 "2014-08-06T19:55:20Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > It’s that whole _questy_ thing. Instead of the players on the field simply interacting, the focus turns toward some _object_. > > … > > One reason why the McGuffin plot device is so lame is that it has nothing to do with daily life. Ever have to chase after an object in your life that would totally change everything? I’m mostly on your side with this, but I’m open to the possibility that such a MacGuffin could work because it stands in, in an allegorical or symbolic way, for something non-physical that real people might have to chase after. > [@Lemur866](#): > > “The Chosen One”. Seriously, this is the lamest plot device ever. Yeah, the reason the protagonist is part of the story is because they were chosen by the author to resolve the situation. In real life there is no such thing as prophecy, no such things as chosen ones. Indeed. I’d broaden the ban to include all sorts of prophecy (and TVTropes lists a [whole shitload of these](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FateAndProphecyTropes)). As the OP said, the reason this is a lame plot device is that it has nothing to do with real life. Prophecies play no part in the real world as I’ve experienced it; when a writer uses them, they’re just a lazy way to create … I don’t know—tension, foreshadowing, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/36 "2014-08-06T20:23:26Z")
Third act misunderstanding. When one friend storms off and then we waste precious time getting them back together. Especially when there was never any reason! You can say what you like about Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure but they never used this plot. ---
**Author:** ![Gerald\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/37 "2014-08-06T21:27:43Z")
I hate the “universe-threatening” plot device because it’s over used. The first Thor film felt very mythic, epic, and the story was excellent. And yet, the hero was fighting, mostly, to stop his brother from destroying the world of a race that’s bent on killing others anyways. The second film, the big bad threatens all of existence, but it comes off as boring and ho-hum. I also disliked Indiana Jones trying to find an ancient artifact that, in the wrong hands, would threaten the free world. It was cool in the first film because it was the first time it was used, and Brody even makes the comment that the Arc of the Covenant isn’t like all the other treasure Indy goes after, so it makes it unique. Temple of Doom was fun and the threat was to a single village, not the world. But after that film the series was about stopping America’s enemies from getting ancient artifact to become all-powerful. I thought “The One” worked very well in the first Matrix film, only because of the way they made audiences believe that Neo _wasn’t_ The One. When I first saw it I remember thinking how realistic it felt that the hero or main character didn’t just have faith and take the jump. He went back inside and let himself get arrested. The rest of the film you really do believe (or at least I did) that he wasn’t the chose one. I think it was a trope that was done well. I didn’t see the sequels though, and don’t plan on it, since I though the first film told the story it wanted to tell. As for Anakin, had already been established in the OT as being a great Jedi, and as Vader, talented enough to hunt down the remaining Jedi order. Having him ALSO be prophesied as a Christ-like figure was too much. The same tragedy could have been told just as well, if not better, without resorting to that. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/38 "2014-08-07T00:49:47Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#): > > As for Anakin, had already been established in the OT as being a great Jedi, and as Vader, talented enough to hunt down the remaining Jedi order. Having him ALSO be prophesied as a Christ-like figure was too much. The same tragedy could have been told just as well, if not better, without resorting to that. It would have rocked if the letter of the prophecy had been such that everyone THOUGHT it referred to Anakin but really referred to his son Luke. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/39 "2014-08-07T00:51:10Z")
I’m tired of movies where the villains are trying to destroy the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895/40 "2014-08-07T01:49:38Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I’m tired of movies where the villains are trying to destroy the Earth. " Oh, I’m going to blow it up; it obstructs my view of Venus. "-Martin The Martian [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-ban-universe-threatening-saving-mcguffins-what-plot-devices-do-you-want-to-ban-open-spoilers/694895.md?page=3)